Jack's SS

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babyjackie

babyjackie

Member Since 2013
Hi Everyone,
This is my first post on FDMB, but have been on the Facebook page since Jack's diagnosis at the end of April.
I have finally got the numbers I could get from him into the spreadsheet.
If anyone could give me some input as to what you may/may not see, it would be so very appreciated.
Thanks!
 
I've seen you guys on the fb page and am glad you've made your way here. :-D

For your spreadsheet link, right now you're sharing the actual spreadsheet. Instead, what you want to share is the "published" version of your spreadsheet. In order to do this, go to File -> Publish to the web.... Check the box to "Automatically republish when changes are made" and then copy the link given below the "Get a link to the published data" section. It should start with something like "https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub...." This is the link you'll want to share in your signature so we won't have to ask for permission to view your spreadsheet. :thumbup
 
babyjackie said:
Is this the correct link?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Code and link stuff gives me brainpain.
Thanks!
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Yep, it's the correct link. :thumbup And that's what we're here for: to help with anything you may need, including codes and links. ;-)

To answer your original question, I'm not as familiar with PZI as I am with Lantus (or even Levemir), but I see you're only giving one shot a day. PZI is best dosed twice a day (some cats might even require 3x a day dosing). Is there a particular reason why Jack's not getting his PMS shot?
 
What I'm seeing is a dose that is dropping Jack like a rock pushed off a cliff, over 400 points in 4 hours. See 5/11 and 5/12. That's 100 points an hour. That's a really fast drop and probably means the dose is too high. Especially since you are needing to skip so many shots.

1. You need to be testing the urine for ketones every day with those ugly black and red high numbers you are getting.

2. In the last week, there has only been one day where you didn't need to skip a shot. You want to find a dose that you can give twice a day. How about trying 0.75 morning and evening?

3. Some testing on weekends or as your schedule allows would help also. I'd like to see some +9, +10 to see the duration on the PZI. The insulin is not lasting long enough, and then we get some big bounces back up to high numbers.
 
I'm thinking that the skipped shots for the last 7 days have been because the PS's are at 200 and below.

Having 7 days in a row having to skip a shot because of low PS's suggest that the dose is too high. You could back off the dose a bit like to 1.25u and see if you can get shootable PS's at both AM & PM, he is so close to the 200 mark at most of the skipped shots that I think just a little less insulin will fix that.

Are you testing for ketones? If not you should start now. Jack is spending half the day without any insulin in his system and that along with an infection and low appetite can set him up for DKA and that is not a road to want to travel.

When you feel comfortable you can come over and join us in the PZI Insulin Support Group. It's a small group but everyone there uses or has used the same insulin. Until then post in Health, there is much more traffic here.

Welcome to FDMB!
 
What food are you giving? Wet, dry, type?

I would also recommend going over to the PZI forum, there are more experienced PZI members there although you can always pop over here for other questions etc.
 
The days where he's only received one dose was when he tested PS at 200 or below. Jack was on 1u. of PZI when first diagnosed. A week later, vet upped to 1.5u., which is what we've been dosing since. He's been on strict wet food diet since diagnosis. Treats of either boiled chicken or tuna, tiny bit couple times a week. I have the keto sticks, gotta catch him in the act...he's stealth. I feel terrible for how his numbers fluctuate, and I hate the idea of doing damage to his little body. I am totally confused as to whether or not I should be feeding him his daily allowance throughout the day, or feed him in the AM before dosing and PM before dosing. I feel bad when he cries to eat, so I give him small amounts of wet food just so he can nibble on something, then he's ok. He didn't get a shot yesterday pm, as he was 157 at +11. Tested him at 5:15 this morning and he was way high-in the 500's. Gave him his food, shot, and retested +2 and he was at 320. Early day at work today, so I'll be home at 1:30 to retest.
 
What type/brand of wet? Some are too high carb.

PZi is best dosed twice a day - so you need to find a lower dose you can give him twice a day. The PZI forum can help with this - they can also answer on feeding.

Also i think he may be bouncing off lows during the day which is why you are seeing so many high blacks.. If thats the case you dont want to increase the dose until you can find out how low he is going. He seems to be dropping fast already. 1.30pm is +8? definately test when you get in the door. I would have liked a +5 or +7 but the +8 will be useful too.

Here are some urine catching ideas. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub
 
I feed him Fancy Feast classic chicken pate. I'll test him when I get home and post the numbers I haven't posted yet. I will be able to do more testing throughout the weekend since I'll be home. If he's high when I test him for PM shot today, should I shoot 1.25u. instead of the 1.5?
Thanks!
 
I feed him Fancy Feast classic chicken pate.
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That is a nice low carb food,4% carbs, and most of the Fancy Feast classic pate styles are also low carb. We use Dr. Lisa Pierson's food chart from over on her site, catinfo.org, to find other foods.

Here is a link to that food chart. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf
Look in the third column of numbers, under C for carb percent and try to stay under 10% for food choices.

It really can make a big difference in the BG (blood glucose) numbers for a diabetic cat to feed those lower carb foods.
 
Ok, I have posted the other numbers I have onto Jack's spreadsheet. Also tested his urine for ketones, results were negative. Yay! He was 99 +8. Fed him snack, and at +10 he was 204. He's laying next to me, snoring. Will test after he gets his beauty rest.
 
Well, tested him before I gave him his pm meal, and he jumped to 521 +12. Lowered dosage to 1.25 from 1.5. Updated spreadsheet. Any thoughts?
 
One reason for the 521 at PMPS is a bounce. That 99 BG at +8 is much lower than Jack's body is used to. When that happens, the liver will pump out glycogen? and counter regulatory hormones to raise the blood glucose numbers back to what it considers 'normal'. Right now, normal for Jack is pretty high.

Think of this as a protective mechanism to protect the organs and brain from a lack of 'sugar' that feeds the brain and organs.

Another reason for the high numbers could be that the insulin is not lasting the full 12 hours between shots. I believe this can happen with PZI but would like some more people with PZI experience to answer and clarify this point.

Good to hear that the ketones are negative. Try to do a ketone test once a day while Jack is in these high numbers.
 
Ahah! 99! He may have well gone lower than that too. Will you be around this weekend to test a bit more during the day from +4 to +7? I want to see how low he is going, cos if he is going too low you would need to reduce the dose.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Another reason for the high numbers could be that the insulin is not lasting the full 12 hours between shots. I believe this can happen with PZI but would like some more people with PZI experience to answer and clarify this point.
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Yes that can happen with PZI but because you are getting PS's that are too low to shoot tells you that the insulin is lasting longer than 12 hours for Jack. It also suggests that the 1.5 unit dose is too high. Lowering the dose to 1.25 units should help you get shootable PS'a at both AM and PM.

Yay for negative ketones.
 
That was a nice blue nadir at +6. Tells us this dose is capable of taking Jack down into healing territory. Even those yellow number tests you got are encouraging.

Maybe another test right before you go to bed tonight?
 
Jack !!!! What are you doing here? Hummm? You are driving your mommabean Laura nuts and all of us here too. You had such nice numbers yesterday at nadir.

Any possibility of a 'fur shot'? After the shot, do you run your hand over the injection site to check for wetness in the fur? Do not rub the injection site, simply run your hand gently over it to see if some of the insulin did not go in or leaked out.

Sometimes, people describe a smell like 'bandaids' if they have done a fur shot.

Where are you injecting? scruff? flank, sides, belly?

Do you rotate the injection site so scar tissue does not build up?

Are you giving Jack any sub-q fluids or anything?
 
No fur shot, I felt the little "pop" and I always kiss his shot spot afterward (I know, I know!) so there was no wetness or odor. I shoot all along either side of spine. Switch spots, too, so no callous forms. No other subQ's. It's driving me nuts. I feel so bad for him.
 
I always kiss his shot spot afterward
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I thought that was kind of sweet, 'Kiss it and make it feel better'. As long as you don't lick your lips afterward and go 'yucky taste'!

No fur shot, injecting in different sites, not the scruff which can give you uneven absorption due to fewer blood vessels there. We eliminated those two possibilities.

No sub-q's or other fluids to dilute the insulin ( saw this possibly happening with another new member recently which is why I asked).

Three strikes and your out@!

It could be an all day bounce from those lower numbers yesterday.
Different food today?
The only other reason I can think of is because he is being a cat. :shock:
 
I was wondering maybe it could be because his dosage is a little lower? Went from 1.5 to 1.25. Today is the second day.
 
PZI and Prozinc insulins do not have that carryover effect like you see with Lantus or Levimir. PZI and Prozinc are in and out types of insulin. Do their thing and then are out of the system.

If the AMPS tomorrow is still high, I think you want to increase back to 1.5. I'd like you to get a second opinion before you do that increase.

I think it's time for you to post over in the PZI Insulin Support Group. My limited experience with PZI may be missing something. There are some more people over there that should be able to help you.
 
I am wondering if he dropped low at +6 last night and is bouncing off it. You might want to set that alarm for +6 a few nights to see where he is.

Wendy
 
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