Jack 10/18/11 still lowering

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Darlene & Jack

Darlene & Jack

Member Since 2011
So Jack is still doing pretty well...down to 0.2 un yesterday. He's had a lot of inverse curves lately, is this normal when lowering and coming OTJ? Then he's going from 120's to 60's in a matter of a few hours late in the cycle.

I think tonight's PM dose may have been a fur shot, he pulled away when I gave him the shot. Not sure if he got any at all with it being such a tiny amount. We'll see how his numbers look later.
 
An inverse curve can sometimes indicate too much insulin, but some cats just nadir late at or just after the PS (+12). I think as long as you are not seeing wild swings and his numbers are staying relatively flat you don't need to worry about it. If the dose becomes too much he might start swinging a little - so lower lows and higher highs.

In the last 6 days it looks like he is staying between 130 and 65- that is excellent! I have no idea what sort of numbers you would get on a non-diabetic if you did a curve. Not sure if they would vary much or if you would see food spikes and such, but he is well in the range of normal numbers
 
Sheila & Beau & Jeddie said:
I have no idea what sort of numbers you would get on a non-diabetic if you did a curve.
Click to expand...

Want me to find out?...I got plenty of civies I can run a curve on...lol Seriously though I would be happy to run a curve on one of my civies just so we could see what a non-diabetic's numbers would look like. They are all use to being tested off and on anyhow as I usually test them all once a month when I take their weights, so it wouldn't be anything new to any of them.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
My civies aren't so cooperative (Jack has a civie brother and sister). I have checked them both only once...and they weren't too happy! Jack is the easy going kitty. It's up to you if you want to check a curve on one, Mel. I'm kind of surprised no one has before on here! It might be some good data.
 
I would be very interested. Your civvies? Not so much, I bet, but go for it if you can get cooperation. I have also tested a few of my civvies once or twice, but they were NOT happy about it.

I don't know that no one here have done this before, I just don't know if they have and what the results are.
 
Lady Jane Grey (civie) has volunteered to have a curve run on her today...Okay so volunteered may not be the right word for it, but as I told her this morning, "If you want the treats, you get the ear pokies." :lol:

So far this is what she has given me:

Pre-breakfast: 45 (fed right after test)
+2 = 57
+4 = 45
+6 = 49 (fed lunch after test)
+8 = 55
+10 =47
+12 =46

Will let you know how the rest of the goes...So far Lady J is more than happy to get poked in the ear as long as either a meal or boiled chicken is involved...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I have found it rather interesting to see that her baseline seems to be right around 45, which makes me feel a little better about Musette when she decides to toss me a high 40s or low 50s late in the cycle. Although now seeing what Lady Jane Grey normally runs and the fact that she is right around a year old makes me wonder if age also plays a role in it, since most of our FD cats are older. Wonder if I can get one of my 7-8 year olds to submit to having a curve on them...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I was using the Bayer Contour on her, which is the same one I use for Musette. I kind of wanted to see what a civie runs as compared to Musette so I knew I was comparing apples to apples if you know what I mean. Since I use a Relion Micro for Maxwell. Lady Jane has a new motto..."Will bleed for Fud!!" :lol: I may have created a monster now as I have a feeling she is going to want to be tested all the time when I test Musette just for the treats. The last time I went in to test they were BOTH waiting for me on the testing spot..lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
LOL...that's too funny that she was waiting to be tested now too. Maybe I'll see if i can get some tests on one of my civvies this weekend since they are the same age as Jack.
 
Thank you Lady Jane! And thank you Mel :mrgreen:

Well, my civvies ALL get treats right along with the FD cat(s), so they are all "right there" all the time too. When I was first testing Beau (rice sock in micro, the whole 9 yards), he would sometimes be sitting on his testing blanket on the table if I made tea or cocoa in the micro! Silly boy! Well, not so silly, I thought it was so cute I gave him a treat anyway. :lol:
 
So sad for Lori and Tom today...I cry every time I have come on here last night and today reading all the posts. Lori is the one who really encouraged me to try Levemir, and I think that without her help in doing that, Jack would not be doing so well today.

I decreased Jack to .1un this morning since he was 69 at AMPS. This evening he was 96 at PMPS...and now 42 at +3!!
Any advice on how to handle things from here? Just hold the .1 for a few days or go to .05 since we got the 42 reading?
 
Did he come up from the 42 on his own? You didn't feed any higher carb food? That was a fairly fast climb to 82 in an hour. I will be interested to see where he is in the morning. I can't really answer your question. You don't want to lose any momentum, but he did drop to a number that I would have decreased Beau on.

You could wait and see how his numbers are tomorrow and the next couple of days, but if he gives a PS below 70-75 again and/or drops below 45-50 again, I would reduce to .05u.

You may be at, or very near, shooting as needed. Take a look at Beau's SS for the week or two before he went OTJ, I think that's between Sept 11 and 19th, where I was shooting as needed. You need to find a do not shoot below number so you can make a skip/shoot decision. Maybe start raising the number up from 80 in tens? Beau had a high do not shoot below number because he could drop below 40 on .05u from the mid 100s, but Jack may be different. You are shooting PS numbers I never could with Beau. And if you skip a +12 time, and find he is over his number at a spot check, shoot then. Just don't shoot again until at least another 12 hours after. I usually had to go to the next 12 hr mark because I was working away from home and gone for 10-11 hrs at a time.

Paws crossed!
 
Sorry I didn't put this in a note last night...I did not give any high carb food. When I got the 42 reading he ate probably half a can of his regular Fancy Feast Classic right after. I was surprised at the 82 reading and wondered then if the 42 was an error. This morning AMPS he was 124 so I gave the .1un again.

Doing the shoot as needed might be hard for me too as Mon-Fri I shoot at 6am and leave the house for work at 7am, returning home around 5pm. Any readings obtained in between are done by my kids (ages 20 & 17). But they have work and school, so it's not always predictable when they can test either. My daughter can give the insulin if I prefill the syringe, but I'm not so sure if varied shoot times will work out for us.

Well, back to bed for a few hours now since it is Sunday. Maybe someday soon I can actually sleep until 8am on a weekend without getting up at 6am for the usual routine!!!
 
Darlene, I think you should just stop insulin and see what happens. There is nothing really lost if you do so. It is not like he is going to become a full out diabetic again - you will see the trend if he starts going up again consistently.

From what I suggested to you before:

.....But there have been many OTJ kitties over the years where the decision was just based on the owner's own intuition and their knowledge of their own cat. The 'formula', although a good one, isn't set in stone.

Even right now you might find that Jack can go without insulin and be just fine. I have seen it happen with cats who had numbers that were a lot higher than Jack's are now. They just seem to stabilize and then their pancreas/liver just takes over and they are fine. :)
 
Thanks Marcy!

And thank you Pamela...I was considering an OTJ trial starting this morning, but you gave me the encouragement I needed! It's a good way to start the week. From looking at other people's spreadsheets during OTJ trials, it looks like most people just test at the usual preshot times and not all the tests in between. I think I would drive myself crazy if I test too much during this!! nailbite_smile

Here we go....!!!!
 
Go Jack Go!!!

If it helps to still the nerves. When Maxwell went off the juice he was still much higher than Jack is now, and I didn't wean him down nearly as far as you have Jack..Maxwell went from 1u to .5u and then off completely. The biggest tests that helped me back then to decide if I needed to support him with lower doses or if I could just stop was a food trial...I tested him before feeding, then fed, waited 2 of the longest hours in my life and then retested. When I saw that he could bring himself back down to normal numbers without insulin. We stopped the shots and never looked back again.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Looking good today so far! :)

I think it might be a good idea to start a new OTJ thread with updates each day if you get a chance, appetite etc. I would be interested in his behavior for instance, that is, if he seems more energetic after stopping the insulin.

We are all here cheering you and Jack on!
 
Jack was so cute when I came home from work today. He came running to the door to meet me with this look on his face like "Mom, no one has checked on me all day!!! Nobody cares!!" LOL

Of course then I made up for it with 3 pokes. His first reading this evening was 26. That didn't seem right, so I checked his other ear and got 65. That was a big difference so I checked the other one again and got 79! So I went with the 65 to post on his ss since it was kind of in the middle.
 
Awww! He knows his routine is different. Beau was, I'd say, disappointed when I stopped testing him all the time. And he was REALLY upset when I turned my attentions to someone else! But he is over it now :mrgreen:
 
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