Ivan & me

Cindy & Ivan

Cindy & Ivan

Member
Hello,
I’m Cindy & Ivan & I are new here.
I’m trying to learn the ins & outs of this sight.

My boy Ivan is a diabetic as of a week ago we found out. My husband & I have been taking Ivan’s blood glucose each day, twice a day. At first it was horrible because it was so hard to get blood. The last few days it has gotten a little easier. Ivan also has pancreatic so he’s getting ringers lactate injections, b12 & a few other shots a day. It’s been a tough week but it’s getting better.
I have lots of questions but I’ll start with the CGM dilemma.
If you use one I am wondering how you were able to get it to stay on?
This last week I tried & the first one fell off before its warmup was done. The second one came off with the applicator. The third one was on from 2pm to 11 pm that night. It was great. I could watch Ivan’s number with such ease. I had shaved a spot, used surgical glue but it still came off. I was heartbroken.

Can you tell me your solution to getting a CGM to stick & stay?

Also where do you purchase them? At the best price.

Thanks for any help.
Cindy
 
Hi and welcome to the forum.
Are you testing before you give the dose of insulin?
Looking at the SS it doesn’t look like you are. its important to test before every dose to make sure the BG is high enough to give the insulin.
And then when you get a low BG lie 71 you need to test again to see the BG is not dropping lower.
You might find this useful abut CGM
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
Hello,
I’m Cindy & Ivan & I are new here.
I’m trying to learn the ins & outs of this sight.

My boy Ivan is a diabetic as of a week ago we found out. My husband & I have been taking Ivan’s blood glucose each day, twice a day. At first it was horrible because it was so hard to get blood. The last few days it has gotten a little easier. Ivan also has pancreatic so he’s getting ringers lactate injections, b12 & a few other shots a day. It’s been a tough week but it’s getting better.
I have lots of questions but I’ll start with the CGM dilemma.
If you use one I am wondering how you were able to get it to stay on?
This last week I tried & the first one fell off before its warmup was done. The second one came off with the applicator. The third one was on from 2pm to 11 pm that night. It was great. I could watch Ivan’s number with such ease. I had shaved a spot, used surgical glue but it still came off. I was heartbroken.

Can you tell me your solution to getting a CGM to stick & stay?

Also where do you purchase them? At the best price.

Thanks for any help.
Cindy
Click to expand...
@Staci & Ivy
Maybe Staci can help you with the Libre
@Staci & Ivy
 
Last edited:
@Cindy & Ivan
Please read all about Lantus especially the 2 dosing methods when using Lantus. There are 2 methods that will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed. We don't adjust the doses by the pre shots , we increase or decrease by how low Ivan's BG is dropping. As Bron said I don't see that you are testing Ivan's AMPS or his PMPS at all. That is the first test you do in the AM and PM and put the BG number in that cell or square
You are changing the amount of insulin you are giving too often every day.
That's why you need to read about the 2 dosing methods and pick one you want to follow and then add it to your signature and spreadsheet up top

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

You need to read all the yellow stickys please
 
Last edited:
Cindy & Ivan said:
Hello,
I’m Cindy & Ivan & I are new here.
I’m trying to learn the ins & outs of this sight.

My boy Ivan is a diabetic as of a week ago we found out. My husband & I have been taking Ivan’s blood glucose each day, twice a day. At first it was horrible because it was so hard to get blood. The last few days it has gotten a little easier. Ivan also has pancreatic so he’s getting ringers lactate injections, b12 & a few other shots a day. It’s been a tough week but it’s getting better.
I have lots of questions but I’ll start with the CGM dilemma.
If you use one I am wondering how you were able to get it to stay on?
This last week I tried & the first one fell off before its warmup was done. The second one came off with the applicator. The third one was on from 2pm to 11 pm that night. It was great. I could watch Ivan’s number with such ease. I had shaved a spot, used surgical glue but it still came off. I was heartbroken.

Can you tell me your solution to getting a CGM to stick & stay?

Also where do you purchase them? At the best price.

Thanks for any help.
Cindy
Click to expand...
Hi Cindy,
I’ve been using a Libre 3 on my cat, Ivy for about 2 years and I’m very comfortable using them.
My cat doesn’t tolerate constant ear pricks.

I also test with a handheld meter when she hits “LO” readings on the Libre most especially.
As you may know, there is usually a discrepancy between when you see “LO” readings and what the handheld glucometer reads.
I use a Contour Next, but it could be any handheld human meter or a pet meter.
I install the sensors myself and I keep several on hand at all times because they can fail or be pulled off at any time by the cat and I don’t want to have to wait to have someone else put it on or be without data or have to take Ivy to a vet for that to be done. (It’s one more stressor for you and your cat, plus additional costs).

It’s truly not that hard to put on. ***You just have to follow the directions very carefully. Once you’ve done it one or two times you will be very comfortable doing it.
I keep a “tube top” on Ivy, (previously had a T-shirt on her. She just didn’t like the T-shirt). But most cats tolerate a tee shirt quite well.
Your kitty may get used to wearing a Libre (and then you maybe wouldn’t have to use a T-shirt, but then again you might always have to keep one on if he likes to pull the Libre off.)

For a Libre 3, I got Ivy her own phone that stays with her at home and I can monitor her 24/7, the data is sent directly to my own phone through the Libre Linkup App).
The phone does not require any active service so you are not paying for an additional phone line. The phone operates on Bluetooth and uses Wi-Fi to send the data to your phone so that you can monitor your cat’s sensor information at all times.
You can use an older phone model if you have one or could purchase one used.
On the Abbott website there are lists of compatible, androids, or iPhones.

***I strongly recommend learning about how to use a Libre from the Facebook group:
“Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats”
They have so much valuable information, guides, tutorials videos, and everything you will need to learn about using a Freestyle Libre sensor.

**A vet’s office tends to use glue to install them, it is highly recommended not to use any glue.
The glue can flood and kill the sensor and it’s terrible on their fragile skin.

I hope this helps. Please ask questions if you have them.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@Staci & Ivy I know nothing about the Libre can she purchase them herself or does she have to get it from her vet
Thanks Staci
Click to expand...
Sorry I missed that question!
Cindy, you will need a prescription from your vet (get 2 or 4 at a time) and I purchase them at my local pharmacy, the pharmacist applies a coupon they find online. You may want to call several pharmacies in your area and ask their best price using NO insurance to purchase them.

Also, you do want to shave the area where you apply the sensor, rotate to a different spot each time so the old spot will heal.
I pretty much use 2 areas on her back/shoulder areas (avoid the spine).

The adhesive which is on the back of the Libre sensor should be able to hold the sensor on if you've prepped the skin properly and you can use a tegaderm film on top to protect the sensor (see advice from the Facebook page I gave you earlier for details).
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi and welcome to the forum.
Are you testing before you give the dose of insulin?
Looking at the SS it doesn’t look like you are. its important to test before every dose to make sure the BG is high enough to give the insulin.
And then when you get a low BG lie 71 you need to test again to see the BG is not dropping lower.
You might find this useful abut CGM
Click to expand...

Yes we test his BG before we feed him every morning & evening.
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Hi Cindy,
I’ve been using a Libre 3 on my cat, Ivy for about 2 years and I’m very comfortable using them.
My cat doesn’t tolerate constant ear pricks.

I also test with a handheld meter when she hits “LO” readings on the Libre most especially.
As you may know, there is usually a discrepancy between when you see “LO” readings and what the handheld glucometer reads.
I use a Contour Next, but it could be any handheld human meter or a pet meter.
I install the sensors myself and I keep several on hand at all times because they can fail or be pulled off at any time by the cat and I don’t want to have to wait to have someone else put it on or be without data or have to take Ivy to a vet for that to be done. (It’s one more stressor for you and your cat, plus additional costs).

It’s truly not that hard to put on. ***You just have to follow the directions very carefully. Once you’ve done it one or two times you will be very comfortable doing it.
I keep a “tube top” on Ivy, (previously had a T-shirt on her. She just didn’t like the T-shirt). But most cats tolerate a tee shirt quite well.
Your kitty may get used to wearing a Libre (and then you maybe wouldn’t have to use a T-shirt, but then again you might always have to keep one on if he likes to pull the Libre off.)

For a Libre 3, I got Ivy her own phone that stays with her at home and I can monitor her 24/7, the data is sent directly to my own phone through the Libre Linkup App).
The phone does not require any active service so you are not paying for an additional phone line. The phone operates on Bluetooth and uses Wi-Fi to send the data to your phone so that you can monitor your cat’s sensor information at all times.
You can use an older phone model if you have one or could purchase one used.
On the Abbott website there are lists of compatible, androids, or iPhones.

***I strongly recommend learning about how to use a Libre from the Facebook group:
“Freestyle Libre for Dogs and Cats”
They have so much valuable information, guides, tutorials videos, and everything you will need to learn about using a Freestyle Libre sensor.

**A vet’s office tends to use glue to install them, it is highly recommended not to use any glue.
The glue can flood and kill the sensor and it’s terrible on their fragile skin.

I hope this helps. Please ask questions if you have them.
Click to expand...

Oh Staci,
Thank you so much for the great information. I bought a couple of cat onesies
but I think Ivan needs a cat threesy
He’s a big boy.

Where do you get the Libre’s ?
I just happened to have a couple of Libre’s left that I did not use. I’m a type 1 diabetic & I switched to Dexcom a few years ago.

Yes the skin where the libre with the surgical glue is very red & ugly. Won’t do that again.
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Sorry I missed that question!
Cindy, you will need a prescription from your vet (get 2 or 4 at a time) and I purchase them at my local pharmacy, the pharmacist applies a coupon they find online. You may want to call several pharmacies in your area and ask their best price using NO insurance to purchase them.

Also, you do want to shave the area where you apply the sensor, rotate to a different spot each time so the old spot will heal.
I pretty much use 2 areas on her back/shoulder areas (avoid the spine).

The adhesive which is on the back of the Libre sensor should be able to hold the sensor on if you've prepped the skin properly and you can use a tegaderm film on top to protect the sensor (see advice from the Facebook page I gave you earlier for details).
Click to expand...

Thank you. I asked twice. Did not see this yet.
 
I can’t see where you have been testing before the doses. What column are you putting those BG results in? They need to go in the AMPS and the PMPS columns
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
Oh Staci,
Thank you so much for the great information. I bought a couple of cat onesies
but I think Ivan needs a cat threesy
He’s a big boy.

Where do you get the Libre’s ?
I just happened to have a couple of Libre’s left that I did not use. I’m a type 1 diabetic & I switched to Dexcom a few years ago.

Yes the skin where the libre with the surgical glue is very red & ugly. Won’t do that again.
Click to expand...
I get them from a local pharmacy. I know Costco and all the chain pharmacies carry the Libres.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You will need to remove the ones from +1 and +2 columns if they are the Preshots.
Click to expand...

Ok, took off the ones in +1 & +2 columns.

I don’t have any other readings. We have a real problem getting blood out of his ear each day 2 times a day & can’t do more blood test.

I’m hoping to put him on a libre CGM this next week.
 
Hi Cindy and John. I am concerned you are giving insulin when the Preshot is in the 70s (on an alphatrak meter) and there is no testing during the cycles. This is very risky and I do not recommend it. At the moment we have no idea how low the BGs are going during the cycles. If there were no ketones in the urine at diagnosis, I would drop the dose of Lantus to 0.5 unit twice a day and see how Ivan goes in that.

Do you have a hypo kit set up?
You need some honey or karo and some high carb food as a minimum in case it is needed.
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
Ok, took off the ones in +1 & +2 columns.

I don’t have any other readings. We have a real problem getting blood out of his ear each day 2 times a day & can’t do more blood test.

I’m hoping to put him on a libre CGM this next week.
Click to expand...


What is your process to test from the ear? Have you tried the other ear? That might be the issue. Are you warming the ear really well first? Are you using a lancet device? There are different ways to get blood from the ear and sometimes what works for one person doesn't work for another :) Some people use a damp hot washcloth in a baggie to warm the ear up but I have never been able to get the washcloth to stay hot for more than a few seconds :confused:. By the time I get the hot water carefully wrung out of the washcloth, the washcloth is barely lukewarm. Plus the crinkle of the baggie bothered my cat. I use the "rice sock" method which seems to be popular with many other members. We can help troubleshoot ear testing :)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Cindy and John. I am concerned you are giving insulin when the Preshot is in the 70s (on an alphatrak meter) and there is no testing during the cycles. This is very risky and I do not recommend it. At the moment we have no idea how low the BGs are going during the cycles. If there were no ketones in the urine at diagnosis, I would drop the dose of Lantus to 0.5 unit twice a day and see how Ivan goes in that.

Do you have a hypo kit set up?
You need some honey or karo and some high carb food as a minimum in case it is needed.
Click to expand...

I understand now, 70 is considered low in a cat. Shooting for 100 to 180 blood glucose is the target.
At .5 Ivan would go high so we have dropped from 1.5 to 1.25.
His BG was 143 this morning.

Yes I have honey & high carb snack for a hypo low.
Thank you for your information. ❤️
 
squeem3 said:
What is your process to test from the ear? Have you tried the other ear? That might be the issue. Are you warming the ear really well first? Are you using a lancet device? There are different ways to get blood from the ear and sometimes what works for one person doesn't work for another :) Some people use a damp hot washcloth in a baggie to warm the ear up but I have never been able to get the washcloth to stay hot for more than a few seconds :confused:. By the time I get the hot water carefully wrung out of the washcloth, the washcloth is barely lukewarm. Plus the crinkle of the baggie bothered my cat. I use the "rice sock" method which seems to be popular with many other members. We can help troubleshoot ear testing :)
Click to expand...

Ivan is a big strong cat. Grabbing & holding him is not always easy. We have done both ears, warmed them up with rubbing them. Stopped using the lancing device & do it handheld.
I will try warming the ear up a little better with the washcloth in the biggie idea. I think that might help.
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
At .5 Ivan would go high
Click to expand...
How do you know? Just echoing what Bron said, without more tests it’s possible this is still way too much insulin for your cat. These pre-shots are low, and a typical Lantus cycle takes the cat even lower during the cycle.
 
Tim & Pookey said:
How do you know? Just echoing what Bron said, without more tests it’s possible this is still way too much insulin for your cat. These pre-shots are low, and a typical Lantus cycle takes the cat even lower during the cycle.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Because even though my cat has only been diagnosed 2 weeks ago with diabetes I became a type 1 diabetic 5 years ago & have used Lantus personally.
I understand that cats are different & that their bodies processes the insulin at a different rate. I have looked at the limited test results from BG testing & going off the trends there only needed to be a small reduction from 1.5 to 1.25 instead of a much bigger reduction of 1.5 to .5.

I do see that the desired BG #s are more like 100 to 180.
I was under the impression it was 70 to 100.
I am thankful that was pointed out to me.

So on the chart you can see the next BG readings the next morning was 143.
I understand that Lantus is a slow acting insulin & too high of a dose can be very dangerous. With Ivan on a much lower carb diet, with the canned food, then the dry cat food, the Lantus should be keeping him steady from shot to shot.
Also feeding the same diet every day is important, it helps to know how the food will affect the BG on a 12/24 hour cycle. That way there’s no unforeseen spikes due to a difference in carbs in the diet.

I am looking forward to placing a CGM, that I can keep Ivan from ripping off,
& being able to see his BG numbers all day.

Chart:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HZa777FP-w04_jM6258aR-c39Wmm2PLQVElJZm3hNVc/edit?gid=0#gid=0
 
Couple things going on here.

Cindy & Ivan said:
I have looked at the limited test results from BG testing & going off the trends there only needed to be a small reduction from 1.5 to 1.25 instead of a much bigger reduction of 1.5 to .5.
Click to expand...
You don’t have enough data to notice a trend. Dosing is based on how low the dose takes the cat not the pre-shot readings.

Cindy & Ivan said:
I do see that the desired BG #s are more like 100 to 180.
I was under the impression it was 70 to 100.
I am thankful that was pointed out to me.
Click to expand...
Hopefully another member can clarify this for you for the Alphatrak meter. The numbers on this site are generally for a human meter, which reads lower.

Cindy & Ivan said:
the Lantus should be keeping him steady from shot to shot.
Click to expand...
He’s not just going to stay pinned at your pre-shot value the whole cycle though… this is the dangerous part in your scenario. If I recall correctly, anything below 68 on an Alphatrak would be a take action number. And you had a pre-shot of 73…

I’m sorry if this is too direct, just trying to help keep your cat safe.
 
Tim & Pookey said:
Couple things going on here.


You don’t have enough data to notice a trend. Dosing is based on how low the dose takes the cat not the pre-shot readings.


Hopefully another member can clarify this for you for the Alphatrak meter. The numbers on this site are generally for a human meter, which reads lower.


He’s not just going to stay pinned at your pre-shot value the whole cycle though… this is the dangerous part in your scenario. If I recall correctly, anything below 68 on an Alphatrak would be a take action number. And you had a pre-shot of 73…

I’m sorry if this is too direct, just trying to help keep your cat safe.
Click to expand...

Hi Tim,
Direct is fine.

I am using the Alphtrak meter. So is 150 a good number?

I looked at Pookey’s chart & see what you mean by numbers not staying pinned from preshot number.
If Ivan is at 75 you think that dropping it only .25 from 1.50 was not enough?
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
Hi Tim,
Direct is fine.

I am using the Alphtrak meter. So is 150 a good number?

I looked at Pookey’s chart & see what you mean by numbers not staying pinned from preshot number.
If Ivan is at 75 you think that dropping it only .25 from 1.50 was not enough?
Click to expand...
Someone else will have to chime in on normal Alphatrak numbers, I can’t remember the range, and it’s tough to search the site from my phone.

Hard to say without that mid cycle data… I think that’s why @Bron and Sheba (GA) was advocating for a bigger decrease, just to be safe.
 
Tim & Pookey said:
Someone else will have to chime in on normal Alphatrak numbers, I can’t remember the range, and it’s tough to search the site from my phone.

Hard to say without that mid cycle data… I think that’s why @Bron and Sheba (GA) was advocating for a bigger decrease, just to be safe.
Click to expand...


Safe is good.
I’m looking forward to placing a libre. Then I will have the information right there all the time.

Do you use a CGM?
Pookey’s numbers look really good. Almost like he might be going into remission.
 
Cindy & Ivan said:
Safe is good.
I’m looking forward to placing a libre. Then I will have the information right there all the time.

Do you use a CGM?
Pookey’s numbers look really good. Almost like he might be going into remission.
Click to expand...
The Libre is a great tool! That will help. Still worth getting comfortable with manual testing though, for double checking lows or if the sensor falls off or something.

Thank you for the kind words, still a ways to go :)
 
Treats are your best friend :) You want your cat to associate testing (and you wrangling him up) with treats. Low carb freeze dried treats are best. Always reward with a treat even if the test was not successful. Offer a treat while you warm up the ear. Another treat after the poke. Another one when you're done with him. Offer praise and head sratches too. My cat will come running when he hears me unzip the case I keep his testing supplies in :cat:

If the hot damp washcloth in baggie doesn't work, try the "rice sock" method. Take an old sock, fill with a spoonful or two of uncooked rice or dried beans. Knot closed. Heat in microwave until toasty warm for you to hold comfortably in your hand for a minute. Fold the rice sock over the edge of the ear and hold in place for a minute. Offer treats to the cat if he gets wiggly. Hold the rice sock inside the ear and use it as a surface to poke the lancet against.

Other methods that have been mentioned on FDMB: holding a warm (empty) coffee mug on the ear, filling a small old pill bottle with hot water and holding that on the ear.

Paw pad testing is also an option.
 
The normal numbers for a cat who is being tested with an alphatrak meter are 68 to approximately 150. Below 68 is too low and you need to always get it up over 68 to keep Ivan safe.
I can’t stress enough that you have to be testing during the cycle if you are going to be shooting preshots of 73 on the alphatrak meter. Otherwise you have no idea how low the dose is taking him.
Lantus dosing is based on how low the dose is taking a cat, NOT the preshot BG.
By the time a cat starts showing signs of a hypo, they will be dangerously low.
If you are testing you can catch it before it comes to that.
 
squeem3 said:
Treats are your best friend :) You want your cat to associate testing (and you wrangling him up) with treats. Low carb freeze dried treats are best. Always reward with a treat even if the test was not successful. Offer a treat while you warm up the ear. Another treat after the poke. Another one when you're done with him. Offer praise and head sratches too. My cat will come running when he hears me unzip the case I keep his testing supplies in :cat:

If the hot damp washcloth in baggie doesn't work, try the "rice sock" method. Take an old sock, fill with a spoonful or two of uncooked rice or dried beans. Knot closed. Heat in microwave until toasty warm for you to hold comfortably in your hand for a minute. Fold the rice sock over the edge of the ear and hold in place for a minute. Offer treats to the cat if he gets wiggly. Hold the rice sock inside the ear and use it as a surface to poke the lancet against.

Other methods that have been mentioned on FDMB: holding a warm (empty) coffee mug on the ear, filling a small old pill bottle with hot water and holding that on the ear.

Paw pad testing is also an option.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the information. We do use treats for Ivan. He’s getting better.
I’ll try the heating of the ears suggestions.
Oh & Ivan says:
“NO WAY ON THE PAWS.”

Which I totally understand, I hate finger pricks when my CGM is giving me a problem.
 
Note my experience is that Libres reat high at high BG and low at low BGs compared to an ear stick. Here is my recent comparison.
Wiggles Feb 2025 Libre BG comparision.png
 

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  • Wiggles Feb 2025 Libre BG comparision.png
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Thank you. You read my mind this morning. I was ordering more BG strips for the Alphatrak meter & was wondering that if the Human BG meters reading are different then the Pet Meters, that the Libre CGM is probably different too.
 
Cindy, are you able to get some mid cycle tests in?
At the moment we don’t know what is happening at all during the cycles and how low the dose is taking Ivan.
Lantus dosing is based on how low the dose is taking the cat not the preshot
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Cindy, are you able to get some mid cycle tests in?
At the moment we don’t know what is happening at all during the cycles and how low the dose is taking Ivan.
Lantus dosing is based on how low the dose is taking the cat not the preshot
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Hi Bron here is another thread that Cindy did today
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-insulin-overdose.298700/

I think you should take a look at it to see what me and Elise said to her about doing more testing, for both cycles , picking a dosing method and she is changing the doses way to often , they are all over the place .Thank you Bron
 
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Cindy & Ivan said:
At 2 pm I retested. BG was 113. Then gave Ivan 1/4 can of shreds. I will retest at 7pm.
Ivan is doing good.
Click to expand...
Cindy we don't use what time you do a test because we all come from different time zones
Please use +8 which is 8 hours after you gave the insulin (113)
The 7 PM is when + what

I think it would be good if you post everyday and in your titles to put the
Date Ivan AMPS# and any additional tests after that and you can continue with his PMPS # and any additional tests after that and link your previous days post to your new one .
To add the additional tests look to the right and tap on Thread Tools then tap on Edit Title and add those tests and then tap save or done




To link your previous posts
Your previous days post will always be in the URL all the way up top ignore where it says insert or cancel I'm just trying to show you where your previous days post will be
Just ignore where it says insert and cancel
Just copy your previous days post and then paste it when you do your new post new thread





Like I said
your previous days post it will be the one all the way up top, above the pic of that cat and the picture of a bottle of insulin there, let me know if you understand it, only way I can explain it :cat:









austin-logo-240.jpg
 
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