Is Prozinc still safe to use

Teresa & KitKat

Teresa & KitKat

Very Active Member
Tuesday night and into Wednesday morning my power was out, that made most of my food not safe to eat. I went to the store yesterday and bought some food, I was moving things in and out. In this process I put Kit Kat's Prozinc in the refrigerator's freezer. I keep it in a plastic container with a lid on it. When I realized what I had done, I took it out to look at it. The liquid was still liquid, it was not frozen solid it still looked like liquid. I put in back in the refrigerator. Has anyone else had this happen to them, please tell me what you did. Is his insulin not safe to use.
 
How long was it in the freezer? If it was still liquid then it did not freeze. I am sorry. I was going to mention that you should probably just put the insulin in some sort of insulated bag with a few ice packs yesterday it would keep cool, but not freeze, for quite a long time.

I would say that as long as you don’t see any particles floating in the insulin and it looks clear/normal that it is fine because, while it got very cold, it did not freeze!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
How long was it in the freezer? If it was still liquid then it did not freeze. I am sorry. I was going to mention that you should probably just put the insulin in some sort of insulated bag with a few ice packs yesterday it would keep cool, but not freeze, for quite a long time.

I would say that as long as you don’t see any particles floating in the insulin and it looks clear/normal that it is fine because, while it got very cold, it did not freeze!
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This morning I used the insulin I bought in November 2024, because I was not sure what to do. The newer insulin I put in this plastic container that at one time container garlic spread for bread, so it was in in the original box plus another container.
 
It is good that you got some tests last night because we now have data to show that the 1 unit was not enough for him last night with the lower yellow preshot. He went into pink by +4. I hope to see a lot more yellow preshots in the future. But I also hope that maybe he will earn some reductions now that his bad tooth has been removed. I feel optimistic about it.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
It is good that you got some tests last night because we now have data to show that the 1 unit was not enough for him last night with the lower yellow preshot. He went into pink by +4. I hope to see a lot more yellow preshots in the future. But I also hope that maybe he will earn some reductions now that his bad tooth has been removed. I feel optimistic about it.
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i just posted today's readings, I think maybe I might feed him too much sometimes. I hate to test him every hour, he ends up getting mad at me. When he first started prozinc he had a lot of blue numbers, then his numbers started going up. The vet told me he thought the tooth was the problem, he said it was very sensitive. The problem was the enamel was gone off the tooth, wonder if it came off during a dental. He said all of his other teeth were fine. The last dental he had was 2-3 years ago, done somewhere else.
 
Yes, he had some nice blues today. We would like to get those blues down and see numbers closer to the 90-149 range we want to see with SLGS, but he hasn’t had such nice blues for a while so I think he’s already benefiting from the tooth being removed. So for a little bit longer let’s hold the dose and see how things are going for a few more days.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I hate to test him every hour, he ends up getting mad at me.
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Do not test him every hour. Test at +2 and if the +2 is higher or just about the same as the AMPS or PMPS, don’t test again until +6. That should catch his nadir. It would be good if you did the +6 on one day and a +4 on a different day and a +5 on a different day. That way it’s not done all on one day but it will help us to get a good picture. But testing every hour is not required! Even when following MPM (Modified ProZinc Method) only one mid-cycle test is required for both a.m. and p.m. If you mix it up a little bit with tests at different hours, we will still have a pretty good idea of what is going on.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes, he had some nice blues today. We would like to get those blues down and see numbers closer to the 90-149 range we want to see with SLGS, but he hasn’t had such nice blues for a while so I think he’s already benefiting from the tooth being removed. So for a little bit longer let’s hold the dose and see how things are going for a few more days.
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That is fine with me, at this time i really I would rather hold the dose. If you go back and look when he first started ProZinc he had a lot of blues on 1unit. I am always afraid they will go too low.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
That is fine with me, at this time i really I would rather hold the dose. If you go back and look when he first started ProZinc he had a lot of blues on 1unit. I am always afraid they will go too low.
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Yes. From about late November to early December he had quite a few blues, although most of them were higher blues than the target of 90-149. His preshot numbers were quite high. I hope we can get between 90-149 and have the preshot numbers come down also. Getting those preshots down can take a while. Cats insulin needs can and do change over time- they don’t always stay the same, but I am very optimistic for KitKat to get well-regulated.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. From about late November to early December he had quite a few blues, although most of them were higher blues than the target of 90-149. His preshot numbers were quite high. I hope we can get between 90-149 and have the preshot numbers come down also. Getting those preshots down can take a while. Cats insulin needs can and do change over time- they don’t always stay the same, but I am very optimistic for KitKat to get well-regulated.
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Now, he is getting the really high numbers from getting lower numbers than usual.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I’m hoping for another good day for Kit Kat today.
Tell me about Buddy. He was on insulin for a long time. When did he pass away?
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Buddy, had chronic pancreatitis,diabetis from a high dose of prednisone. Buddy, was insulin resistant as you can see IAA 83. Kris & Teasel helped me with him at one time he was taking 10 units twice a day. i have looked for the 2017 -2018 SS but I cannot find them. I have been told that a cat with pancreatitis should not have any dental work done except by a cat only vet or a vet dentist. There was none of these types of vet's around here. One of his fang's was abscessed, I tried to talk to his vet about what I had heard. But, I don't think they got it, any time you present with a cat that has pancreatitis or diabetes the vet's kind of dumb founded. I let them pull his tooth because it had been abscessed. With in 3-4 days he had such a bad case of pancreatitis he had to stay in the hospital for a week. The vet did a US and then a GI doc somewhere else read it. The US person said that was the worst case of pancreatitis he had ever seen. After that his diabetes could not be controlled. Because his diabetes, could not be controlled and he got kidney disease from that. His vet told to shoot what ever his numbers showed because it could kill him if I shot too high. That was not liked on FDMB. Buddy, was the sweetest best cat I ever owned. The vet told me that some of her tech's told her if I ever wanted to rehome him they wanted him. One of the other tech's told me that Buddy acted like he knew they were trying to help him. When ever i wanted to check his BG or give him a shot, I would put a pink house coat on the table and he would jump up on it. When I checked his Bg or gave him a shot, it never seemed to bother him. My Mother lived with me and she was never a pet person, but she loved Buddy. One time i was in the bed asleep and Buddy jumped up in the bed and rubbed his face against mine. He never scratched the furniture, most of the time he would lay in the floor. He had his dental in 2019 and the only SS are from 2019 on. We cared very much for him, including my Mother.
Buddy, was put to sleep on 1/21/21. He was buried in my yard, I can look out my kitchen window and see where he buried.
 
Oh wow. I feel very sad that Buddy had all those problems. What a lot you went through with him. He sounds like a very special cat! I can tell you did a lot to help him! I always do worry about the toll diabetes takes on the kidneys. Thank you for telling me about him.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh wow. I feel very sad that Buddy had all those problems. What a lot you went through with him. He sounds like a very special cat! I can tell you did a lot to help him! I always do worry about the toll diabetes takes on the kidneys. Thank you for telling me about him.
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Buddy, was so sweet, we loved him very much. when he passed I may have got on FDMB 1 time, but no more than that. That picture of him and his squirrel comes up every time I log on, now i can handle it, but I could not before.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Sorry that Kit Kat is up and down right now. I think we will see some improvement soon. I was surprised to see the black BG number from last night and this morning. :bighug:
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I just went to pick up medicine from the vet. Before i left I checked Kit Kat's ketones and they were at 5. While i was at the vet's I asked to speak to 1 of the doctor's about the ketone's. I spoke to a vet who has got out of vet school 5 or 6 years ago, she knows KitKat. She asked me if he ate more than at meal times, I told her about the snacks. She said you cannot do that, you need to feed him just at meal time. She explained to me about the Ketones and to regulate a cat you need to feed only at meal time. KitKat is going to be heart broken, he loves to lay in his bed and eat his snacks. Also, I am wondering when this does break about him going low, because the other day he was at 114 and that was with him eating 2 snacks, that was what set him bouncing.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh wow. I feel very sad that Buddy had all those problems. What a lot you went through with him. He sounds like a very special cat! I can tell you did a lot to help him! I always do worry about the toll diabetes takes on the kidneys. Thank you for telling me about him.
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I did a lot of staying up at night with him checking numbers and going to bed setting the clock so I could get back up and see about him. That was when I was younger.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I just went to pick up medicine from the vet. Before i left I checked Kit Kat's ketones and they were at 5. While i was at the vet's I asked to speak to 1 of the doctor's about the ketone's. I spoke to a vet who has got out of vet school 5 or 6 years ago, she knows KitKat. She asked me if he ate more than at meal times, I told her about the snacks. She said you cannot do that, you need to feed him just at meal time. She explained to me about the Ketones and to regulate a cat you need to feed only at meal time. KitKat is going to be heart broken, he loves to lay in his bed and eat his snacks. Also, I am wondering when this does break about him going low, because the other day he was at 114 and that was with him eating 2 snacks, that was what set him bouncing.
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That is completely wrong and your vet knows absolutely NOTHING about feline diabetes or a cat on insulin. I am sorry, but I am very angry about you being told that completely false information— Kit Kat will suffer as a result and will be in danger of dropping too low and possibly in danger of DKA. I do not want that. @Bron and Sheba (GA) can you explain about how the food helps.
 
Yes. He may be bouncing from lower numbers that he isn’t used to. The only way to get through bouncing is to get them used to lower numbers. They must spend time in lower numbers in order to get used to them. Bouncing is very frustrating. Some cats will get over it and stop bouncing and some cats never stop bouncing to some degree. @Shawn & Sir Maximus can you tell about how bouncy Sir Maximus was in the beginning and how we worked through it and how we kept increasing the dose when necessary and finally got Sir Maximus regulated? He doesn’t bounce anymore but he was very bouncy for a long time. And can you comment on how helpful the snacks are for Sir Maximus?
Teresa & KitKat said:
Now, he is getting the really high numbers from getting lower numbers than usual.
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
That is completely wrong and your vet knows absolutely NOTHING about feline diabetes or a cat on insulin. I am sorry, but I am very angry about you being told that completely false information— Kit Kat will suffer as a result and will be in danger of dropping too low and possibly in danger of DKA. I do not want that. @Bron and Sheba (GA) can you explain about how the food helps.
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i told her that is Ketone was 5, she then asked me how many times a day that I feed him and I told her and she said that is why his ketone's were 5. She said that he should only be feed 2 a day and his insulin be given to him either while he was eating or very soon afterwards. She also said the insulin broke down sugar and if he was feed after that it caused them to have ketones. She is not my vet, but one of the vets at the hospital my vet owns. He just ate and he did not eat very much and I was worried about that.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. He may be bouncing from lower numbers that he isn’t used to. The only way to get through bouncing is to get them used to lower numbers. They must spend time in lower numbers in order to get used to them. Bouncing is very frustrating. Some cats will get over it and stop bouncing and some cats never stop bouncing to some degree. @Shawn & Sir Maximus can you tell about how bouncy Sir Maximus was in the beginning and how we worked through it and how we kept increasing the dose when necessary and finally got Sir Maximus regulated? He doesn’t bounce anymore but he was very bouncy for a long time. And can you comment on how helpful the snacks are for Sir Maximus?
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.
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@Teresa & KitKat
On your Spreadsheet up top could you please put when KitKat was diagnosed . What you have there is 321?
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@Teresa & KitKat
On your Spreadsheet up top could you please put when KitKat was diagnosed . What you have there is 321?
Also when you test for ketones you should put what they are in the remarks section on your spreadsheet
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I did not know that.
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Did you use a blood ketone meter to test his ketones? When a cat has high ketones it is so important to keep giving adequate amounts of insulin and extra calories and water (either sub-q fluids or mixed into food) to reduce ketones. Here is our information page on Ketones that explains a lot!
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...and-diabetic-cats-a-primer-on-ketones.239971/
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No, I just use Ketone strips. i don't have a meter.
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Yes. He may be bouncing from lower numbers that he isn’t used to. The only way to get through bouncing is to get them used to lower numbers. They must spend time in lower numbers in order to get used to them. Bouncing is very frustrating. Some cats will get over it and stop bouncing and some cats never stop bouncing to some degree. @Shawn & Sir Maximus can you tell about how bouncy Sir Maximus was in the beginning and how we worked through it and how we kept increasing the dose when necessary and finally got Sir Maximus regulated? He doesn’t bounce anymore but he was very bouncy for a long time. And can you comment on how helpful the snacks are for Sir Maximus?
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I know they bounce when their numbers are lower than what they are used to. I don't know how long they bounce over a low number, just that they do.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
i told her that is Ketone was 5, she then asked me how many times a day that I feed him and I told her and she said that is why his ketone's were 5. She said that he should only be feed 2 a day and his insulin be given to him either while he was eating or very soon afterwards. She also said the insulin broke down sugar and if he was feed after that it caused them to have ketones. She is not my vet, but one of the vets at the hospital my vet owns. He just ate and he did not eat very much and I was worried about that.
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Teresa & KitKat said:
She also said the insulin broke down sugar and if he was feed after that it caused them to have ketones.
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this is not correct. Insulin drives the sugar from the blood into the cells of the body to be used for energy. Insulin does not break down sugar. It moves sugar from the bloodstream into the cells to be used for energy. When there is not enough insulin available to the body (either from the pancreas or from “exogenous” insulin — which is the insulin we inject —then the body must burn fat for energy. It is the body’s using fat for energy that causes the ketones to be produced. To put it another way— Without enough insulin, the body begins to break down fat as fuel. This causes a buildup of acids in the bloodstream called ketones. If it's left untreated, the buildup can lead to diabetic ketoacidosis.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
That is completely wrong and your vet knows absolutely NOTHING about feline diabetes or a cat on insulin. I am sorry, but I am very angry about you being told that completely false information— Kit Kat will suffer as a result and will be in danger of dropping too low and possibly in danger of DKA. I do not want that. @Bron and Sheba (GA) can you explain about how the food helps.
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The only reason I asked today was, i went to the vets to pick up some medicine and years ago I took Buddy to a vet that was not his usual vet, because his vet was not in. He had pancreatitis and was really sick, i started crying and i told her i was afraid that he had DKA too. She Told me not to worry, they had medicine they could give him for DKA. I had run a test on Kit Kat's ketones and it looked pinker than usual, I got to thinking what that vet had told me about Buddy. So, i told her kitKat's ketone's were 5 and asked if they had any medicine for Ketone's. That is how this all started.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I did not know that.

No, I just use Ketone strips. i don't have a meter.
I know they bounce when their numbers are lower than what they are used to. I don't know how long they bounce over a low number, just that they do.
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Some cats bounce for longer than others. It is usually a good sign of progress when a cat starts to clear bounces more quickly. A bounce can last for up to six cycles (3 days) but not all bounces last that long — every cat is different. Some cats can clear a bounce quickly. In fact, it is usually a good sign of progress when a cat starts to clear bounces more quickly.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Some cats bounce for longer than others. It is usually a good sign of progress when a cat starts to clear bounces more quickly. A bounce can last for up to six cycles (3 days) but not all bounces last that long — every cat is different. Some cats can clear a bounce quickly. In fact, it os usually a good sign of progress when a cat starts to clear bounces more quickly.
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I really am not worried about the bounce, when he comes up with a number like 500, I want it to be a bounce.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Some cats bounce for longer than others. It is usually a good sign of progress when a cat starts to clear bounces more quickly. A bounce can last for up to six cycles (3 days) but not all bounces last that long — every cat is different. Some cats can clear a bounce quickly. In fact, it is usually a good sign of progress when a cat starts to clear bounces more quickly.
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I do think that the reason Kit Kat is not regulated now is because of his tooth. Now, that it is gone hopefully we can get him in the right direction.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I do think that the reason Kit Kat is not regulated now is because of his tooth. Now, that it is gone hopefully we can get him in the right direction.
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We will! I promise to do my best to help. And you are doing so much for him! Sometimes it seems like we are not making any progress with these kitties, but we have to be patient and keep adjusting things as necessary. My cat was up to well over 40 units of insulin at one point. He went into DKA a good while before that because he had an infection and because he was not receiving enough insulin. I understand frustration and worry.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
We will! I promise to do my best to help. And you are doing so much for him! Sometimes it seems like we are not making any progress with these kitties, but we have to be patient and keep adjusting things as necessary. My cat was up to well over 40 units of insulin at one point. He went into DKA a good while before that because he had an infection and because he was not receiving enough insulin. I understand frustration and worry.
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I thought of Mr.Darcy when we were talking about Buddy. I know you and Mr. Darcy went through a lot. I could never have paid for 40 units of insulin. I am over protective, but I can not help it because so many things seem to wrong. Good Night. I am going to try and get ready for bed.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
She asked me if he ate more than at meal times, I told her about the snacks. She said you cannot do that, you need to feed him just at meal time. She explained to me about the Ketones and to regulate a cat you need to feed only at meal time. KitKat is going to be heart broken, he loves to lay in his bed and eat his snacks. Also, I am wondering when this does break about him going low, because the other day he was at 114 and that was with him eating 2 snacks, that was what set him bouncing.
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Teresa & KitKat said:
told her that is Ketone was 5, she then asked me how many times a day that I feed him and I told her and she said that is why his ketone's were 5. She said that he should only be feed 2 a day and his insulin be given to him either while he was eating or very soon afterwards. She also said the insulin broke down sugar and if he was feed after that it caused them to have ketones. She is not my vet, but one of the vets at the hospital my vet owns. He just ate and he did not eat very much and I was worried about that
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I am just seeing I’m sorry I didn’t see it earlier.
I completely agree with Suzanne. That vet knows nothing about feline diabetes or ketones in particular.
Ketones form when there is not enough insulin or not enough food for the cat. If this happens, the cat starts to use fat for energy and that causes ketones to form. And the way to combat ketones is it food lots of food and don’t miss any doses of insulin.
I have no idea where the vet got the idea that you don’t feed a cat with ketones except before insulin. That is completely wrong.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I am just seeing I’m sorry I didn’t see it earlier.
I completely agree with Suzanne. That vet knows nothing about feline diabetes or ketones in particular.
Ketones form when there is not enough insulin or not enough food for the cat. If this happens, the cat starts to use fat for energy and that causes ketones to form. And the way to combat ketones is it food lots of food and don’t miss any doses of insulin.
I have no idea where the vet got the idea that you don’t feed a cat with ketones except before insulin. That is completely wrong.
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I just got a reading of 169, do you think it is safe to give a dose of 1.5.
 
If you will be able to test (beginning with a +2) and if you are willing to give him the snacks of small amounts of low carb food- a teaspoon or two - then I would suggest going ahead and giving him 1.25 units of ProZinc. He’s got a meal on board right now, so that’s good. I daresay if you retested him now his number would be higher.
 
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And you saw my recommendation above to give 1.25?

Remember two nights ago when he started at 216 and you only shot 1 unit and he went into the pink. Well this morning he is going to be fine only hopefully he will do better than that today.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Just let me know you are all right and that you saw my recommendation from 20 minutes ago and let me know what you decided to do.
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I gave him 1.25 and I went outside, the outside cat had been waiting on me to feed him. I am going to the basement and feed pretzel who is in the basement. I gave Kit Kat a shot as soon as you posted 1.25, he was 1/2 hr later than usual. I will be back in a little while going to see about pretzel.
 
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