Is drooling normal after shots? Diabetic kitty in Paris

[Kristen]

First off I am so glad this forum exists since there is so little information given to me here in France. My cat has just been diagnosed with diabetes and it's been so overwhelming. I am grateful to this site which has been so informative. Dante, my cat, just turned 14 Saturday and an early bday present this year was learning he had early onset diabetes! We're only on week one but I feel like my vet here in France where I live has given me very little information and resources. So that's why I am glad to have found this site. I am giving Dante 6 units a day of Insulin 3 in the AM, 3 in the PM...Caninsulin seems to be a common brand in Europe. My question to this wonderfully knowledgeable and supportive group is whether it's normal that he be so hungry? I keep reading about cats that aren't hungry when they are diabetic but Dante wants to eat all the time. And I know it's important that he eats right after the morning shot and I used to have dry food out for him during the day until I got home from work. But now he doesn't want the dry food, which I understand is fine and normal, but isn't there too much thing as too much moist food? Alas I don't have fancy feast here in France or most of the other good US brands you all recommend. I feed him the only natural, low carb, high protein moist food available here and yet he's still hungry. And keeps begging! So I am a bit confused about the feeding schedule and when am I giving him too much? I guess I can't help wanting to get him to put more weight on after he lost so much so dramatically with this disease! And lastly, is it normal for them to drool all the time now with this disease? I was so concerned on day one when this started that I took him to the vet on a sunday thinking he was showing signs of hypoglycemia...but they tested his blood and they said he was fine and this was not the case. But it's making us both miserable seeing him drool to such an extent. And even after a week he's still quite lethargic....I thought he'd show signs of improving and being his old self by now. We have another check up coming up this weekend but in the meantime, I hate seeing him suffer. Thanks for the guidance and would love to know if there is anyone else out there in Paris....
Kristen

 

[Jana+BK+Chester(GA)+Wilbur]

I wish I was in Paris...

It's good you are feeding low-carb wet food, dry food is not low-carb and will drive Dante's BG levels up. You may have seen dry food referred to as "kitty crack," and that is because it is bad for Dante and some kitties have a very hard time giving it up. The fact Dante only wants low-carb wet food is a good thing!

You say you are giving 3 units of vetsulin a day, so would I be wrong in assuming that means he is getting 1.5 units in the AM and 1.5 units in the PM? I'm not as familiar with vetsulin as I am other insulins, so I don't know if a week-long trial at that amount is enough to consider changing the dose; however, the fact that Dante is still eating (and wanting to eat more) would be an indication that his diabetes isn't being regulated at that dose. I'm sure someone who knows more about vetsulin than I do will be around shortly to talk about the dose with you. Do you hometest Dante? If so, it would be helpful to see his BG numbers.

As for the drooling, it is a sign to me that B.K. is getting hypo (on the other hand, Chester doesn't drool at all). If your vet is certain the drooling wasn't caused by a hypo and this is recent behavior, I ask the vet to examine Dante's mouth at the appointment this weekend to make sure he doesn't have some type of dental problem.

Hang in there...people who know more about your particular insulin will be here shortly, I'm sure.

 

[Jen & Squeak]

Hi there!

Caninsulin is popular in europe, as most vets seem to mandate starting with it and only progressing to other insulins if it doesn't work. It isn't the best insulin for cats, but it is better than nothing, and you can soon learn how it is working in your particular cat.

The drooling is worrisome; did this just start with the shots? If so then something is potentially very wrong, possibly hypoglycemia due to overdosing but that is just a guess.

I know it is very late there, but first thing tomorrow, can you go to your pharmacy and get a human glucometer for measuring blood glucose levels? You need to start hometesting ASAP like human diabetics BUT if he appears worse then he needs a vet even quicker.

Regarding food, as mentioned, the food you've been feeding is way better than the vet's dry food, which is an outdated idea.

My suggestion is this

1. watch him tonight and get him to eat
2. tomorrow, get a glucometer AND ketostix for testing his urine for ketones (read the faq for more info)
3. skip the dry food especially if he wont' eat it
4. do NOT give 3 units at a time until you are testing at home, as this MAY be the cause of the drooling
5. read. read the faq and print it off, it will really help.

Hope this helps. As you have more info and questions, we will try to help. Unfortunately, I don't know of anyone in Paris but there are others in various EU countries that will have local advice.

Jen

 

[Kristen]

Thank you Jen and Jana....the drooling did just start since i started giving Dante shots....but that said, he does have an open lesion in his mouth, some sort of auto immune disease, but he never drooled before from that, he's had that for about a year....but the vet recently started giving him cortisone shots for the mouth wound and I think that put him over the edge for the diabetes....will call the vet tomorrow then to ask about the serious drooling....I just thought it might be a consequence of the insulin...though again, he doesn't display any other symptoms of hypoglycemia.....

 

[Jen & Squeak]

Steroids can cause diabetes. Sometimes they are necessary but it is always important to look at other options. The good news is that the diabetees MAY be transient if steroid induced...

 

[Kris & Motska (GA)]

Hello there -- you've come to the right place. The US version of Caninsulin is Vetsulin, so you may see those terms used interchangeably here. In the US, the FDA has required a halt in production on Vetsulin due to problems with the quality/consistency varying from batch to batch (or that's the way it was explained to me) -- so you may not get very much Caninsulin-specific advise. But most of the advise given here would apply to any type of insulin.

Having said all of this, I am one of the few people still using Vetsulin -- it seems to be working rather well for Motska -- at least for now.

Most vets will start a cat at 1 unit each time you give a shot (1 unit AM and 1 unit PM). Especially since you are switching from dry food to wet, that would be my dosing suggestion -- at least for now. ALWAYS test his glucose before you give Dante the shot (usually: test, then food, then shot -- maybe wait 15min to make sure Dante is going to keep his food down before giving the shot).

When possible, you'll want to test Dante's blood glucose around the +4, +5, +6, and +7 hr mark (if you can't do all of the extra tests during the week due to work scheduling, that's fine -- maybe try to get all of those tests done on your day off if you can). That way you'll know how many hours it takes to hit the nadir (lowest glucose level) and how low it gets. Once you start getting some of that data and can see a pattern, you (and your vet) can decide whether Dante needs a dose increase or decrease, and whether to adjust by a full unit or half-unit of insulin. Many vets adjust the dosage based upon the pre-shot numbers without looking at the nadir number -- that's not a good idea! For example: if your cat's pre-shot number is 350, and the nadir number is 65, then a dose increase would only make the nadir number lower and send your cat into a hypo situation!

As for the food -- let Dante have as much as he wants until you get him regulated a little better. Since diabetes interferes with a cat's ability to process glucose, the cells are literally starving for energy -- hence the weight loss. As long as Dante isn't eating until he makes himself sick, the extra food wil help him feel a little better. Hugs and positive vibes for you and Dante -- it's overwhelming at first, but you can do this -- we're here for you!!!

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

No one has given you the info on hometesting yet, so here it is. This is a great beginning site: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm and here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 We all have tips that worked for us. Mine are to find the right place to poke (put a flashlight behind the ear so you can see the vein running down the side. You are aiming for the capillaries that run off that vein.) and put a dab of vaseline there so the blood will bead up. Oliver wouldn't bleed at first until we started heating his ear with a rice sack (thinnish sock filled with raw rice and knotted. Heat in microwave until very warm but not hot. Put on ear for a minute or so to bring blood up.)

Testing your kitty at home will give you such peace of mind - you will know how the insulin is working and before every shot, whether it is safe to shoot.