Introduction

Status
Not open for further replies.

Phaewryn

Member
Hello. I was just joining to gather information, but the process of signing up informed me that my first post had a requirement to be specifically in this forum, so I guess I am making my first post now, because I can't be sure I will remember those instructions if I leave and come back in a month or whenever I need to come back and I don't want to start here by breaking the first rule of diabetic cat club. I will state foremost that I do not yet have a diagnosis for my cat. My vet said that I need to bring him back for a recheck, but that his blood glucose at his dental was concerning (he had to have a full blood panel drawn since he is a senior), and combined with some other symptoms, I believe it's looking like he may be diabetic, so here I am. I'm here just looking at the information, trying to mentally prepare myself. He was fasting in preparation for his dental and his blood glucose was 241. In addition to that, his potassium was 3.3 and his chloride was 110, so his electrolytes are dilute, which isn't surprising as he has been drinking a ton of water and peeing non-stop for months, I have to change his litterbox every 3 days as it is completely saturated.

Anyway, his name is Sammy, and my name is Jules. Sammy is a senior cat (we don't know exactly how old, his prior owner went into assisted living and he was taken in by someone who worked at the hospital, which is who I got him from). I adopted Sammy because his previous caretaker wasn't managing his very uncontrolled thyroid disease. He was a walking skeleton at only 4.3lbs when I adopted him about a year ago. He's now up to 11lbs and I have gotten his thyroid disease under control, managed his arthritis, and he is doing very well other than this constant thirst and urination issue. He probably should be a 13lb cat, as he is very large-framed, so I am hopeful that I can get him all sorted, but I'm also worried because I am running out of funds and I am also suffering from some mental illness issues that complicate things like keeping on a schedule and getting things done, which I know are pretty important when managing diabetes, so I'm feeling overwhelmed, which is compounding my mental illness and really stressing me out. I want to do what is right for Sammy, but I am not sure I am mentally well enough to take care of that much right now. So I'm just here to try to get a feel for it to see if it seems less overwhelming if I immerse myself in it more. In addition to Sammy, I also have a cat with feline asthma named Seraph, who is on an expensive inhaled medication which must be given every 12 hours, and a healthy but somewhat overweight cat named Buddy, whose only problem is that he drools when he is happy and slings saliva on everything like a basset hound.

I've been reading and I am wondering if maybe Sammy is borderline enough if I just take away all his dry kibble and feed him only a low carb wet food if that would be enough? I thought 241 was high, but after reading a bunch of posts, it doesn't seem like that is really that high for a cat (I previously had a human partner who was type 1 diabetic so to me that seemed very high because in a human that is disconcertingly high and that was my previous experience with diabetes). Sammy is currently eating a combination of mostly Fromm Chicken and Duck pate, which has 1.86% carbs on a dry matter basis, the absolute lowest I could find (I emailed the premium cat food companies until I found a good one with low carbs), Wellness Tiny Tasters Chicken which has 2.05% carbs on a dry matter basis (also pretty good numbers), Wellness Tiny Tasters Chicken and Turkey which has 5.91% carbs on a dry matter basis, and Chewy's Tiny Tiger Turkey Pate which is 13% carbs on a dry matter basis, alongside Fromm Hasen Duckenpfeffer kibble which I have no idea the carbs on but it's kibble that has peas, lentils, and potatoes in it, so I know it's bad. This is the diet he has been on for months, nothing new. I have always fed a mostly meat-based diet and aimed for foods without a lot of carbs, except for the kibble, which for a kibble, is also pretty decent ingredient-list-wise, but is still a kibble (I know it's bad, I'm aware of the issues). I do sometimes have to mix pumpkin into his wet food as he is prone to constipation. This probably raises the carb content of the food, but I am not sure by how much as carbs are not listed on the pumpkin products I use (Tiki Cat Tummy Topper and Weruva Pumpkin Patch Up). He was a walking skeleton, so my priority has been putting weight on him, and the kibble has been helpful because my other male cat (the feline vacuum) "finishes" all the wet food in the house so Sammy has nothing left to eat sometimes unless there is some kibble laying around. I hate yelling at my other cat, whose name is Buddy, just for eating. Buddy was previously feral and has come a long way and doesn't deserve being chased and yelled at for just eating. But he will eat ALL of Sammy's food, which Sammy will eat maybe 1/4 of and then just walk away from. Sammy is a very light eater. He eats just a few bites and then walks off, and I do not have the patience to baby sit him constantly to ensure he is being served 10 tiny meals a day, taking his food in and out of the fridge like a butler. If he eats too much at once, he vomits (the Tummy Topper also seems to help with that). He's elderly, and I realize he just has limitations, and the kibble has been working to make the household work and not make it so I am constantly running around managing cat bowls all day. I, also, have limitations. But if it would "cure" Sammy to take the kibble away from him, then I will try that. Then there's the weekends. I leave on the weekends. I come home only to feed and give the cats their medications and I leave again immediately. This is not something I can flex much on. So these are my problems. Should I try taking away the kibble during the week, but leave it on the weekend? Should I get rid of the kibble all the time and just leave more wet food out and hope no one gets food poisoning on the weekends (I only come home once every 12 hours to do meds)? How do a rationalize wasted wet food? It's so hard because my budget is already so tight. If I stop buying the expensive kibble completely, maybe I could afford to buy more wet food - oh, but they will HATE me and Seraph really uses the kibble because she burns so many calories just breathing due to having asthma. They do not eat a ton of kibble as is. A 4lb bag always lasts the whole month (there are 3 cats). I currently spend between 30-50% my monthly income on cat food/supplies, so my budget is already very stretched. I am very paranoid about brands I feed. It's not because I am a snob, I have severe anxiety about poisoning my cats. I only have been feeding the Tiny Tiger because Sammy was previously on grocery store brands and I have been slowly switching him over to better quality but it has been a slow process to develop his taste buds to where he will eat better foods from more reputable companies, so when he's not eating "enough" he gets a can of the nasty Tiny Tiger food, which he eats very well, because it's nasty and he loves that nasty stuff. "Nasty" is a subjective term that is in my mind anything from a company with recalls, or that isn't from a brand I trust - it's subjective and paranoia-based, please don't take it personally, I'm not here to judge you for what you feed your pets, but I'm not going to feed something that doesn't feel "safe" to me for my pets. I have been very very paranoid since the 2007 melamine poisonings and won't feed anything made by any of those companies or processed in any of those factories or factories I deem to be too similar to those factories, or if I suspect something similar could happen at a factory, or anything made by a company that has had recalls I can't rationalize away. This really limits the foods I feel safe feeding, and if I don't feel safe, my anxiety gets really out of control. My other two cats eat mostly Weruva, but Sammy doesn't like the natural texture (maybe because he has so few teeth) and prefers traditional pates. And it's just so easy to say "just switch your cats to wet food and feed meals and stop free-feeding kibble" when you're well and you have a sense of time and don't face a daily struggle to do the dishes and every other single little thing, but that would be so hard for me with my executive dysfunction issues. It's 11PM and I still have only drank half my cup of morning coffee and have not taken MY morning meds, done my PT, checked my mail, brushed my teeth, showered: nothing. I did the cats (food, meds), sat down here at my desk, and then stopped functioning from that point forward. That's all I have been able to do for a year, maybe longer. I'll get up at 1AM when the cats' next meds are due, because I have to, for the cats, and I'll wash just enough cat bowls to feed the cats, and I will cook and eat something then. Why do I tell you this? For perspective, so you can advise me on what's best for Sammy. I don't think I'm well enough to take care of a diabetic cat. I'm not well enough to take care of myself (I am under the care of a professional psychiatrist and I do have a therapist).

So, take away the kibble? Worth a shot? He also has to take his thyroid pill (which goes inside half a pill pocket), which he gets a few Fruitables cats treats with. I didn't think it was a big deal, but after reading some in here, it seems like I will have to try to find a lower carb treat. He does not like dehydrated/freeze dried meat, I think it's a texture thing, and the Red Barn Protein Puffs (which have "no carbs" according to Chewy and would be perfect) seemed a little big for his mouth and he struggled with them, but I will try them again now that he's had his dental and he's in less pain. Suggestions?

This is Sammy in the yard last summer:
Sammy-yardAug2021.jpg
 
Hi Jules and Sammy and welcome to the forum.
Sammy is a beautiful boy.
I am wondering if some of the peeing and drinking might be from his thyroid problem and he might need his medication for that adjusted. Have you asked the vet about that.
241 is not terribly high but it is well above the normal range. Some of it could be due to vet stress. A lot of cats have a higher BG at the vet.
It would be worth while doing a few things now
  • I would try and get rid of the dry food as it is high carb. There are some low carb dry foods available as well as some freeze dried options which your cats might like. I am going to tag @Diane Tyler's Mom as she will know what low carb dry foods are again the US and she might know of some low carb treats as well. If you are away every weekend the Low carb dry food may be an answer. Ziwi Peak and Stella and Chewy both have freeze dried foods….oh I see he doesn’t like the freeze dried foods.
  • It would be worth while trying to get some blood glucose (BG) tests in yourself to see if Sammy really does have a higher BG than normal. If you take him back to the vet to have it checked he might still have vet stress. Do you think you could manage to test his BG yourself? We could help you. That way you will be able to see if he truly is a diabetic cat. The other option is to get the vet to do a fructosamine test which will give the average of the last couple of weeks and will diagnosis is he is diabetic or not.
  • If you decide you will try to test the BGyourself you can buy a human ReliOn premier meter from Walmart for $9 and 100 test strips for 17.88. You would also need a box of lancets, size 26 or 28 gauge and some cotton rounds to put behind the ear when testing. Here is a link to HOMETESTING HINTS AND TIPS
  • I would not leave it too long before either getting some tests in yourself or getting the fructosamine test done (which is not effected by vet stress) because if she is diabetic and the change over of food does not bring the BGs back down to normal range, the only treatment is insulin.
  • If he’s just had a dental, it is possible his BGs might come down after that as well, so worth while doing some BG tests, if you can.
  • Would he eat fancy feast Peter? They are low carb?
I hope this has helped. Keep asking questions. We are happy to help you get everything sorted out.
 
I was pretty sure she said his thyroid levels were looking good was time we checked them. I can post his full bloodwork if that's helpful, but everything but the glucose, EOS and those two minor electrolyte imbalances were good. Certainly, we can get that done again if she comes back and says it's a good idea. I'm just waiting to hear back from her to see what all she does want to run again now that he's recovered from the dental. He's not losing weight, and his body condition is holding steady, which tells me we're at least doing OK with the thyroid, as before he was a walking skeleton. He nearly tripled his body weight in less than a year. She did warn me that thyroid disease can mask other things and once you get the thyroid under control, other things can crop up, but I can't recall diabetes being on that list! I thought it was going to be renal failure. Renal failure would be awful, but the high blood glucose is there? If it *could* be renal failure, then the diabetes diet would be counterproductive and feeding high protein wet foods like I am is more harm than good, right?

I can totally go buy a blood glucose meter, I just needed to know what is a good one to buy! If that is a good one, then that is great, I was under the impression that good meters cost much more than that after reading reviews on Amazon for a few hours. If I rule out high blood sugar, then that leaves renal failure, right?

My vet does housecalls, so I can have her come here so he is not stressed for these tests that she needs to do herself, if such tests exist. I love my vet! Obviously he had to go in for the dental, but I have most of my vet work done here at home, where the cats are not stressed. All their vaccines and routine stuff is done at home.

I was reading that you can test for ketones and possibly blood glucose by using urine test strips too? That seems super easy. Can you tell me which urine tests trips to buy to test for the most things? I wonder if there is a urine test strip to test for renal function?

I've got low carb foods he eats. I just worry about him eating enough if I don't feed him the food he really likes. I was reading in here all day and saw someone mention FortiFlora as a food topper to trick cats who eat junk cat food into eating higher quality foods. Maybe I will buy a box of that this month to see if he likes that. He's still a bit on the thin side (I feel like he needs to gain at least another pound, maybe 2), so I need to keep him eating. A lot of it is on me. He may do better with freeze-dried too, now that his mouth has been taken care of.
 
If it *could* be renal failure, then the diabetes diet would be counterproductive and feeding high protein wet foods like I am is more harm than good, right?
If his Renal values are OK I doubt he has Renal failure. If you post the full blood work, we can look at it for you. Even if he did have some renal failure, feeding a high protein, low carbs diet is absolutely fine until the very late stages of renal failure. The current thinking on renal failure now is to feed a high protein diet until the late stage and look for low phosphorus foods. But I would not worry about that because it probably is not happening.


If I rule out high blood sugar, then that leaves renal failure, right?
No, not if the renal values are ok.


was reading that you can test for ketones and possibly blood glucose by using urine test strips too? That seems super easy. Can you tell me which urine tests trips to buy to test for the most things? I wonder if there is a urine test strip to test for renal function?
The test strips you need are Ketostix and you can get them from Walmart or a pharmacy.
No there is no strips for renal failure.

can totally go buy a blood glucose meter, I just needed to know what is a good one to buy! If that is a good one, then that is great, I was under the impression that good meters cost much more than that after reading reviews on Amazon for a few hours
The meter I suggested above is a good meter and a lot of us here use it and it is not expensive to buy the test strips.

got low carb foods he eats. I just worry about him eating enough if I don't feed him the food he really likes. I was reading in here all day and saw someone mention FortiFlora as a food topper to trick cats who eat junk cat food into eating higher quality foods. Maybe I will buy a box of that this month to see if he likes that. He's still a bit on the thin side (I feel like he needs to gain at least another pound, maybe 2), so I need to keep him eating. A lot of it is on me. He may do better with freeze-dried too, now that his mouth has been taken care of.
It will take a week or two to swap over low carb options. Just make sure he is eating well as you progress through the transfer.
 
, there are low carb options in dry food - Young Again Zero Mature , Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (chicken flavor) and Wysong Epigen 90 They are all around 5% carbs. They are expensive but of better quality that other dry food (including prescription food).
Some members have said that the Young Again caused diarrhea , I guess each cat is different
 
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P

Also chewys has freeze dried treats also


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same ,you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces
.

You can Google freeze dried treats and see what other ones there are and different flavors
Just make sure that is the only ingredient in them meaning turkey, chicken, minnows etc

Here is another one , I see you can get these in different flavors also just look
You may have to break any freeze dried treats in half if they are too big
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01B78672I/ref=twister_B08SGXLB53?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
 
If his Renal values are OK I doubt he has Renal failure.
We haven't run that test yet as far as I know, so I don't know. I'm sure that will be the next test to run alongside another blood sugar test and another thyroid panel. Waiting to hear back from the vet on when/if we did a renal panel and when his last thyroid panel was.

The test strips you need are Ketostix and you can get them from Walmart or a pharmacy.
No there is no strips for renal failure.
The meter I suggested above is a good meter and a lot of us here use it and it is not expensive to buy the test strips.
Thanks! Going to go buy those things right now!
 
Some members have said that the Young Again caused diarrhea , I guess each cat is different

We use Young Again as kibble and Weruva for wet - Wilbur is a kibble addict. It doesn’t give him diarrhea but does cause a ghastly smell in the litter. We credit the Young Again with getting him into remission two years ago and helping him getting there again right now (knock on wood)
 
We use Young Again as kibble and Weruva for wet - Wilbur is a kibble addict. We credit the Young Again with getting him into remission two years ago and helping him getting there again right now (knock on wood)
Do you know where Young Again is made? Where their manufacturing plants are located? If they use co-manufacturing plants shared with other brands or if they have their own plants?
 
Is this the right stuff? Will tackle doing this tomorrow, just want to confirm I got the right supplies! The pickings were very slim. No 28 gauge lancets on the shelf, it was 26 or 30 and I didn't figure I would be able to get blood with a 30 gauge, and only 25 and 50 quantity boxes of test strips, and no Ketostix.
diabetes.jpg
 
Yes everything you bought is correct you can get the ketostix at any pharmacy
Withhold feeding him 2 hours before you test him first thing in the morning

You don't want the BG to be food influenced. You can then feed him through the day and get more tests in. You only withhold food 2 hours before the first test in the AM and PM
So if you test him 8 AM your PM test would be at 8 PM

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
c2b8079a-b471-4fa6-ac36-9ac1c8d6dcca-jpeg.57072
fec17d29-5ab4-44a8-912b-3a91944c3954-jpeg.57073

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear tostop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
You can also use a little Vaseline on the ear if you want to so the droplet of blood will bead up
 
Last edited:
, there are low carb options in dry food - Young Again Zero Mature , Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein (chicken flavor) and Wysong Epigen 90 They are all around 5% carbs. They are expensive but of better quality that other dry food (including prescription food).
Some members have said that the Young Again caused diarrhea , I guess each cat is different
Fromm was kind enough to send me data of their four lowest carb dry kibbles and my food is the 4th lowest, but still quite high at 27.65% (and their lowest is 22.92%). Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein won't work due to egg and salmon, he won't eat any foods with either of those in them and my other cat won't eat anything with egg either. The Epigen ingredients look ok, but pepper? Does that not cause digestive upset for anyone? The Young Again looks the best of those options, ingredient-wise. Their shipping policy, however, is a major problem in my area. I can't be sure Fed-Ex will deliver anything and I use Chewy's 100% guarantee to replace lost deliveries all the time. There are no Walgreens in town so I can't have it held at a Walgreens and I don't have a car to go pick up a package anyway. I guess I will try the Epigen, looks like Chewy sells that. Hard to believe it is low in carbs when it has all that fruit and vegetable in it. Hopefully the pepper doesn't trigger an asthma attack for my asthma kitty or give anyone digestive issues. I believe that Wysong's dry foods are made here: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.043...4!1s3PtXPiU26LeY2AveSwFMcw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
(https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...f_p_inc.4178e18948b1864c54b2ee76c708ce6b.html)
 
You can also use a little Vaseline on the ear if you want to so the droplet of blood will bead up
Oh, I hadn't considered that the blood would disperse into the fur unlike on human skin where it beads up! I don't have any Vaseline, I do have Aquaphor. I'll try it without it and see if I can do it without. Unfortunately, I can only get out once a week, and now my shopping is done for this week and I won't be able to get out until next weekend. I'm not sure if anything in Aquaphor would effect the test result, it may have glycerine or something in it. I'll shave his ears if I have to.
 
Do you know where Young Again is made? Where their manufacturing plants are located? If they use co-manufacturing plants shared with other brands or if they have their own plants?

Here’s their website: https://www.youngagainpetfood.com/

They have their own manufacturing facility in Minnesota and based on my understanding only do their own food there. Their website also lists where they source ingredients from and has a pretty robust set of PDFs where they compare their ingredients/composition to other foods. In our experience, their customer service is excellent and you could certainly contact them with any questions. Right now we are only using Weruva soft food (because of the robust nutritional data they provide) and the Mature Zero LID to satisfy someone’s apparent addiction to kibble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top