Introduction: Wes

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jen & Westley

New Member
Hi everyone,

Longtime lurker, first time poster, so I'll give some history. Wes was first diagnosed in November 2023. It took a while (about four weeks) to get him regulated on Caninsulin -- in the meantime, his legs deteriorated rapidly and we believe he experienced a heart failure after a stressful vet visit. He rallied, and eventually we got him down to 5 units Caninsulin, but after a suspected hypo incident, the vet dropped us to 1 unit (probably way too low, though he was stable at 1 for a while), and we eventually climbed back up to 5 units before ditching it and trying Lantus, as recommended here. For further context, at that time he was still eating about half his usual amount of kibble, because of past urinary problems and a lot of pooping trouble, so the vet didn't want to change his diet dramatically.

We've been on Lantus since the beginning of July, and while we've gotten him out of the scariest numbers and are generally trending downward, he's a bouncy kitty we're having a lot of trouble getting to the "breakthrough" dose and I'm very anxious about the fact that a breakthrough seems so elusive despite high dosages. You'll notice that we're generally testing at +5, because we're still working with our vet and that's the number he wants, though we do have a sense that his nadir is around 8 hours. We've weaned him off basically all kibble very slowly, so extra frustrating that we can't seem to get in the zone. He eats a combination of FF and PC wet food (see Canadian food charts). So all under 5% carbs. His legs are bad again, though he can still do small jumps and use a litter box, but this gives us a lot of anxiety, because the heart failure was so traumatic (though he's now on daily benazapril for heart support). We've been giving the recommended B-12 for about two weeks. He is a big kitty, at around 16.5 lbs, but the vet has never said he needs to lose weight. All of his lab tests for kidney and liver function etc. are good, it's just the BG that has been a real challenge. (He has not been tested for IAA, Acro, Cushings yet, but we may have to push for this soon.)

We've guided increases according to our vet, and I know they're bigger jumps than TR, though we've held everything for minimum of 6 cycles.

We've now gotten to the point where the vet seems baffled, which is very stressful, so what I'm looking for is some compassionate insight/encouragement, especially from others who have had to enter the 10+ units range. This whole thing has kind of broken me.

His spreadsheet is linked in my signature and in my profile
 
Thanks for getting your signature and spreadsheet set up. And waving hello from BC. :)

First some comments on testing and timing. Ignore what your vet says on time to test. You need to test before every preshot test, AM and PM. My kitty Neko showed me some numbers below 50 (2.8 in World #) first thing in the morning. That would not have been safe to shoot right away. That's why you test at preshot time, to make sure it's safe to shoot.

Next, you want to determine a couple other data points, which are when the onset it, and nadir. From the New to the Group Sticky Note (please read all the Stickies on the Lantus forum if you haven't already):
Learn how YOUR kitty is responding to insulin:
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
  • How to do a Curve - a simple explanation
How do you determine the nadir? You need to go some curves to figure out when Wes typically has a nadir. Note, it can and does change from cycle to cycle. Again, Neko like to mix it up, it was mostly between +7 and +9, except when it wasn't. :p. Nadirs are important because we change the dose based on how low the dose is taking the cat.

Night time tests are also important, because cats often go lower at night. A test just before you go to bed can help give a heads up if he's going lower then.

Second topic is the size of dose. Note, Neko got up to 5 units of Caninsulin before we switched to Lantus, then late I switched to Levemir as it's often a better insulin for higher dose cats. Neko had both IAA and acromegaly and got to a high of 8.75 units before I had her treated for acromegaly. I strongly recommend you get Wes tested fo at least those two conditions to start. We recommend testing for any cat that gets to 6 units. Other things that make me think the acromegaly are his heart conditions and that he's a big kitty. Plus about one in four diabetic cats has it.
 
Thank you, Wendy! Really appreciate you taking the time. We will push the vet to test for IAA and Acro when we talk to him in a couple days. (I was really hoping this wouldn't be the case, but time to face the music it seems.) We hadn't been doing many pre-shot tests because he's been so high for so long, but we will do a proper curve so we have a better idea of things.
 
Regarding the acromegaly (IGF-1) and IAA blood tests, knowledge is power. Depending on the answers, you might be able to move forward with treatment. Or do some tweaks to dosing to get him into better numbers faster.
 
I second what Wendy says on always getting Preshot tests done. Apart from ensuring it is safe to give the dose , unless you get a Preshot BG you will have no idea how well the insulin is working. Just getting one test at+5 is not enough information. There are 23 other hours every day when the BGs could be dropping low. Getting Preshots then a test sometime between +4and +7 gives us enough information to dose safely. :)
Do you have a hypo kit set up?
 
Yes, we do have a hypo kit.

And sorry, yes, that's just the number our vet wanted, and it's daunting to go against the vet, hence the +5s.
 
Very happy to see you are getting a preshot…well done.
And 90 at +5. I would not increase the dose with that 90 in the picture. See how the next week goes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top