Introduction / questions

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ekoren

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Hi all,

Just signing up to the board after learning that two of my three cats are diabetic. I have been spending a lot of time on this website for the last few days, and I'm grateful to all of you who post here for proving that managing feline diabetes can be done. I have a number of questions. They may already be answered somewhere, but I can't seem to find them. I'll post the questions after giving a quick summary of my cats' stories:

Sander and Tree are 10.5 years old. They are brothers, both neutered. Since I got them as kittens, I have been feeding them a combination of dry and wet food, higher on the dry food. For 6 years I fed them Wellness, dry and canned, and then four years ago moved from NYC to Minnesota and changed their food. For the last four years I have fed them a variety of high quality canned foods and changed the cats' dry food to a locally made premium brand called Nutrasource.

Tree started losing weight this summer, and by December had gotten skeletal. At around the same time, Sander's tooth got infected and his back legs lost a lot of muscle mass. Tree's back legs also are failing--my husband and I thought that Tree had a bad fall last February when we were gone, the vet agreed. I took them both to the vet in late December to check on tooth, legs, and weight problems.

Tree's blood sugar at the vet's was in the 450's. Sander's in the 350's. The vet prescribed Royal Canin diabetes dry food. I bought it, and fed it to the cats for 3 days. Then I found this message board, talked to Lori who sends out the Newbie kits, and went to the store to purchase a bunch of low carb canned food. I realized that the reason the litter box has been a mess for weeks is because they are drinking and peeing up a storm. After talking to Lori and reading this website, I stopped feeding the Royal Canin and have been feeding them a lot of low-carb canned food for the last two days. (Just yesterday my Labrador Retriever ate the four pounds left in the Royal Canin dry food bag when I wasn't looking!)

The cats eat the canned food like they are starving. I *think* I'm seeing a bit less water drunk and less pee in the litter box at this point. Sometimes Tree eats so much so fast he throws it back up. I have not started the cats on insulin. I will start home glucose testing as soon as the Newbie kit arrives, which will tell me if I need to go the insulin route.

My challenge: my husband and I are going away for five weeks at the end of January. My goal is to try and stabilize the cats through diet (and insulin?) by the time I leave, ideally so that the pet-sitter does not have to deal with insulin.

Here are my many questions, I would be grateful to any more experienced caregivers if you have answers:

1. Is it possible to get enough of a change in the cats' (especially Tree's) glucose levels with just low-carb cans? Even if we can only delay the start of insulin until I get back in March, that would be great.
2. What signs can I look for, outside of glucose testing, to see improvement?
3. How can I get Tree's weight back up?
4. Could the brothers' hind leg problems have to do with diabetes, and, if so, will they improve if their glucose levels do?
5. Does anyone know the carb content of Nutrasource dry cat food? I won't go back to it, but it might be useful to know. I can't find it on the food tables. If no one knows, maybe I can find out from the nearby factory.
6. Is there a particular way I should be feeding the cats at this stage to prevent them from getting worse? I.e.--should I put out more food, less food, little bits of food more often, etc.?
7. Any other recommendations?

Again, thanks to all of you for your existence here.

Elisa
 
Welcome Elisa,

So glad you found us and have been doing some reading.

Changing the diet works very rarely. Usually at least a little bit of insulin is needed. Did your vet do a fructosamine test? That is the definitive test for diabetics. The numbers from the vet's office may be a little value. Stress raises bg levels and most kitties are stressed in the vet office. That is one of several reasons we advocate testing at home. When you get your kit and start testing, you will have a much clearer idea of what is really happening with your guys.

They may eat like they are starving, because they actually are. Unregulated diabetics don't process and use their food well, so they are desperately hungry. We urge newbies to feed their kitties a number of small meals during the day to help even out the hunger.

The problem with the back legs could be neuropathy: Neuropathy It can be helped with B12, but also requires regulation of the diabetes to be completely resolved.

I would suggest you get them ready for the testing while you wait for your kit. Make up a rice sack (thinnish sock filled with raw rice, knotted, heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot) and start messing with their ears, warming them up and giving them a treat at the spot you plan to test. Lo carb treats

Keep reading and asking questions. It is a steep learning curve, but very doable. We would love to help.
 
Here is what i just posted on another question from someone just getting started. Some comments might apply to you. My cat is off the juice now and I hope he can be regulated by diet. You will get a lot of good advice on this board. Once their BG is in a normal range, they won't act like they are starving. Some people say that their cats eat a lot less as time goes on. Sue and Oliver are one of the ones I remember giving me great advice when we were new to this board.

My cat was diagnosed in September in the 500s at about 20 pounds. he had been drinking a lot of water and was not feeling good. He weighed 27 at his previous annual exam. (Very large cat - like Maine Coon but not one.) He was given Lantus and started on 2 units twice a day. In hindsight I would have started with one unit twice a day and then increased as necessary. During this time, i changed his food from dry high carb to canned high protein. I was not hometesting at the time but was taking him to the vet for his tests. The vet kept increasing his insulin and we got to 4 units twice a day in no time. That along with the change in the food filled his insulin shed in his body quickly. I believe that is the reason that he had a seizure one night. Because of this message board, I know now how critical it is to home test so that i know the BG level before the shot. Also because of this board, I was ready when he had the seizure. My cat had no symptoms. Be sure to read about hypos and have Karo syrup or something similar ready. I had liquid medicine droppers and some type of sweet syrup like Karo, honey, etc. in every room. And have some high CARB food on hand to give after the syrup if the cat will eat to help bring up the BG level. I was thankful that my cat slept with us otherwise I might not have known about the seizure as quickly. I was working part time and was at home some days but gone others so I bought a timer feeder so that he could have food while I was gone. I think that giving him 4 smaller meals in a 24 hour period was good for him as it helped his pancreas heal a little better. AFter only about a month, he got off the juice and is doing fine.

Here is what I learned from this board and my reading, etc:

Be sure that there is no other medical issue going on because some infections may cause an increased BG level.

Learn how to hometest now. Test before every shot. If the level is under 150, I would not give a shot according to the suggestions of the protocol I found here. If it was between 150 - 200, it said that you had options which included not giving the shot, feeding and testing again or just not giving the shot period. To do the test, we use a flashlight that is around the head so that your arms are free. I give treats before the test, during the test, and after the test. WE found freeze-dried chicken treats that were very high protein treats and he loves them. I bought two meters AccuCheck Aviva and Relion. I have had more success with Relion from Walmart since it requires the least amount of blood for a sample. I bought small lancets to test with but had a hard time getting blood. Many on the board said that they had to use a larger lancet at first to get the ears so that they gave blood. I also could not get any blood using the lancet device so i just use the lancets. It takes fewer times to get blood now. Keep your chart up to date so that if you have a critical question, you can get the best response from the readers.

Learn how to do the curve. My cat was not on insulin long enough for me to really get that process and understanding of highs and lows down. It is still confusing at times.

BG levels are extremely different (higher) at the vet although I remember one person on the board who did not have that problem with her cat.

Start with a small dose and do not increase (or decrease) much at the time. There is a protocol on this board that helps to guide dosage changes and suggests how long to leave them on a new dose before adjusting again. It also advises you on when not to give a shot (ie. do not give a shot if BG is under 150. If between 150-200, there were 3 options. Use small needles so it does not hurt as badly. The choice of Lantus was a good one. I think most people on this board are using or have used it.

Stick to a schedule as closely as you can. Shots 12 hours apart. Apparently after you get data on your cat, if shots are given early or later, then some adjustments can be made. These adjustments are made by people who have had a lot of experience and have a lot of data on their cat. I did not have that much experience.

Change slowly to a canned high protein, low carb food and watch BG levels carefully so you don't contribute to a hypo event. REad about the shed and hypos so that you are ready if your cat has a hypo. As I said i had liquid medicine droppers along with the syrup available in every room. I also had some gravy food that was high carb to bring sugar up after the hypo. The syrup brings up the BG level quickly after a hypo but does not last so try to give the cat some high CARB food to help bring it up. There are a couple of lists about food on this board. Get a high protein food that is less than 10% carbs. Labels can be confusing. Read the charts that you find on this website. I feed 4 meals a day instead of 2 while he was on insulin. I used timer feeders when i was not home. I woke up at night to give him his night meal. Chart the meals along with the shots because that gives you so much more information about how your cat is responding. Also, make notes about health, activity level, vet visits, etc. There is so much happening at once, you will forget things. The chart really helped me.

I am sure there is more that I learned here but these are the most important for beginners - at least in my experience. There are wonderful people on this board who really know about this disease and can help you with anything I believe. Good luck. You can do this.
 
Hi Elisa and welcome to the site! First of all, wow, two cats diagnosed at once is rough, but then, I guess there's not much difference in treating one than treating two.

Also, good that you caught the diabetes before either one of them went into DKA or diabetic ketoacidosis. Sounds like Tree is having some neuropathy, that weakness in his legs. That can be corrected.

Answers to your questions as best as I know:

1. Every cat is different, so there's no real way to definitively answer this. And delaying insulin could actually send them into DKA while the cat-sitter is minding them, something that, IMO, would be far worse than that person dealing with the testing and shots. Something to think about.

2. Signs of improvement are less peeing, less drinking, gaining weight (in under weight cats), improved coat (softer, not flaky).

3. Tree's weight will come back up as his health improves. My Sam regained 2 pounds in less than 4 weeks.

4. Yes and they should. Read up on neuropathy. I don't know enough to answer that more fully.

5. No idea about that food.

6. Free feed them. Keep food available all the time. Unregulated diabetic cats are basically starving to death. Let them eat all they want of the low carb canned food. You can add a little water to it to help them get enough fluids, and that helps keep it moist while it sits out.

7. Definitely learn to home test. That's your best tool for getting your boys regulated. And lastly, breath. This can be overwhelming, but it's totally doable, especially with this group to help you out and answer questions. This board rocks.
 
Welcome, Elisa. You are the second person I can remember with two cats diagnosed at once with diabetes (but there are a lot of us with multiple diabetics).

I agree on letting home testing numbers tell you what is really going on. My aunt had her two cats tested (blood sugar) at the vet and the numbers were upper 200s and mid 300s. I brought my meter over to her house and tested them and they were both under 100. But they had no other symptoms like weight loss and excessive drinking.

Is you cat sitter someone that will be staying in your home or taking the cats to their home? I ask because your guys really should be on insulin, but not left alone for most of the time. Can you have the sitter learn to home test right along with you? When I leave my cats with a sitter I have had one that could test and one that couldn't. In both cases I told them to give less insulin than I would have. That keeps the BG a little higher, but is still getting them some insulin and doesn't risk a hypo.

I would also suggest that your sitter have access to your computer for posting here while you are gone - or they could sign on themselves. They should have access here and be able to get support as needed while you are gone.
 
Thanks, all, for the support and feedback. I just got my newbie kit in the mail, and my diabetic friend demonstrated how it works. I'll start testing now.

The Nutrasource food is dry, and is manufactured in Perham, Minnesota by Tuffy's Pet Food Company.

Elisa
 
Record keeping is critical when you have two diabetics -- also knowing who is giving shots at what time --- you need to be extra careful to give the right cat the right dose if at some point they have different needs -- and one of our favorite sayings is the "Every Cat Is Different"

It would help to start insulin ASAP - because it helps the pancreas to heal -- gives it a chance to rest and recuperate, and also will help your kitties gain weight sooner.

The diet change will definitely help -- but it will not be a magic overnight sudden healthy -- it takes time.

Some newly diagnosed kitties do go "Off The Juice" after a few weeks of insulin and diet change. Only way to know is to start.
 
Thanks, Phoebe... for your recommendation about record keeping. I can see what you mean about how important it is to keep track of the cats' different needs.

Update: I managed to test both cats' blood glucose levels! As expected, testing Sander was a breeze, testing Tree caused a few headaches and required a few pricks. The result: Sander=389 and Tree=384. This was at about 5pm, and the cats had had access to a plate of canned food for the day while I was out. I'm beginning to see that diet may not be the magic bullet I hoped it would be. Too bad these indoor kitties can't be trained to use a treadmill...

I appreciate everyone's feedback about getting the cats on the juice ASAP. I'll call the vet's office as soon as they open after the weekend/holiday--either Monday or Tuesday.

Elisa
 
Sheila,

To respond to your questions about a cat sitter, the sitter would be visiting once a day. It would be very difficult for me to find someone to stay in my house full time while I am gone--I live far far out in the country in an inconvenient place. I have thought about putting the cats in a cat hotel, or in trying to find someone they can stay with, but for the time being I don't have any leads on a place that the cats could stay other than a "cat suite" (read: cat cage) at a cat hotel while I am gone.

Elisa
 
I agree with the previous posts that a diet change alone is unlikely to manage your cats diabetes at this point. When I switched my cat to all wet food it lowered his BG level an average of fifty points. Most other members report that switching to all wet food lowers the average BG fifty to a hundred points. Both of your cats are over 300 now so even a hundred point drop would not get them out of the diabetic range.

I would not advise delaying starting insulin for several reasons. The most important is that with BG numbers. over 250 or 300 on a regular basis you risk a condition called DKA. DKA is a condition in which the body begins breaking down fats as an energy source. This produces ketones that can build up and cause the blood ph to become too acidic. This is a medical emergency that is expensive to treat and life threatening. My cat had DKA twice when first diagnosed. There is a link in this site that explains more about DKA I don't want to take up a lot of room on this thread explaining it. The sooner you begin insulin the greater the chances yolur cats will go into remission. Since your cats were just recently diagnosed their progonosis of going into remission are probably fairly good. However, as the other member noted this does not happen overnight.

You may wish to start talking to your cat sitter about wether they would be comfortable doing BG testing and insulin injections. If he or she isn't, then this would give you a chance to find another pet sitter or boarding facility that can do insulin management. You might be able to find a pet sitter who has training as a vet tech. or even as a human health professional such as a nurse or paramedic. A another alternative would be to board at an animal hospital that has a seperate cat section. Trying to find a pet sitter to do in home services would probably be a better choice if you can because boarding tends to stress most cats out.

It is interesting that your cats are siblings and both developed diabetes at the same time. In humans if there is a family history of diabetes, this increases the risk of an individual becomming diabetic. There is probably also a genetic component to diabetes in. cats and dogs also.
 
Jan, thanks for your thoughtful message. I was particularly interested to learn the average glucose level change with just switching food.

Elisa
 
Hi Elisa
I just saw your post and remembered how nice it was chatting with you.
I wonder if your cat sitter, altho visiting only once a day would be interested in learning to test and shoot before you go. Perhaps a payment for the service would entice. She could also have access to the board here under your name and we could talk to her every day. even one shot a day would be better than nothing.
if going with one shot i would think but am not sure that lev or lantus being longer lasting would be preferable...low doses...just enough to curb the growth of bg's for those 5 weeks.
This may be totally wrong but others will chime in.
Hope you can get the insulin soon and get started.
Your sitter may even be given a couple of phone numbers for any problems that she can't get a timely response on the board for.
Lori
and tomtom too!
 
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