Introducing Morphy

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TygerLilly

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Hi everyone. I started out when the internet was fairly new by getting on a support forum for my cat in renal failure, so this kind of feels like home already. Warning, I write very long posts. I've got a lot to learn. I'm sure I'll need some hand holding and I'm pretty good at that myself.

Morpheus was born to a rescue kitty ten minutes after my daughter arrived to pick her up. It was a bit of a surprise since she was so thin we weren't sure if she was putting on weight from being fed or preggers. Considering how Canna and my daughter bonded, you'd think she was just waiting for her! She had 6 healthy kittens, but not enough milk, so I kept two to bottle feed. So Morphy has been mine since he was born and his sister The Princess since she was just shy of 6 weeks. I have an African serval (exotic cat 45lbs, size of a German Shepard) who loves to help me raise kittens. The moment I touched him, I knew I wouldn't be giving this kitten away. Considering his parents were not large cats we were surprised when Morphy and The Princess turned out to look like purebred Maine coons. He usually weighs in between 15 to 18 lbs. He loves to do silly things to make us laugh. He's incredibly smart. When he was a tiny kitten he would reach up like a toddler when he wanted to be picked up. When he wants to be momma's baby he still does it, although now he can reach past my hip. He and the serval are best buds. You can imagine how much of my heart he owns.

One of his ears collapsed from a hematomia from him kicking at ear mites. Then recently he had problems with his other ear and had to have it operated on. He had to be on antibiotics because it just kept being infected. He dropped quite a bit of weight then, so I've been keeping an eye on him. Yesterday when I got up, I wondered if he had a seizure. He looked like he had lost control of his bladder and rolled in it, he was dehydrated and felt like he was nothing but bones and fur. My first thought was "If I don't get him to the vet he's going to dye today." Outside of being thin and matted, he was still eating and drinking and wasn't behaving any differently, but I've learned to never second guess those feelings.

I asked the vet to run a diabetes test on him, the glucose meter was at 586. No temp, acting fine, if somewhat stressed at being at the place they did that awful surgery on him. He was quite indignant about that, I think he was relieved all that happened was the temp taking and a few pin pricks.

I was actually relieved. My mind was running along the lines of advanced renal failure and cancer. I know we aren't out of the woods yet, but insulin twice a day is a piece of cake compared to a slow IV drip. He seems a little happier after only three shots. I had severe hypoglycemia, so I'm familiar with it. I wasn't shocked or dismayed because I know several people with diabetic pets, even a ringtailed lemur! The cost will be a pain, because I'm on disability, but I have an excellent vet. I pretty much figured with doing rescues and my cats living longer that someday I'd go through this. Plus almost everyone I know smokes, so I just figure my animals are my "vice", cheaper and healthier. Who else has a cat who turns the light switch on and off when I'm in the shower, just to hear me yell at him? He loves to play in water, the day I saw him studying how to flush the toilet with the same concentration he used with the light switch, I locked him out of the bathroom. :lol:

Sooo, first question. I know diabetes causes healing problems in humans, does it in felines also? Because that would explain the whole ear thing. Now I have to read posts to find out how to feed him. confused_cat
 
Hi and welcome.

You have quite the household. I had to google African serval just to see what they look like.

What type of insulin did you start? What's Morphy's current diet and did the vet mention changing his diet?

When I first got Tucker he was very sick, we didn't know he had diabetes. He had a fang removed on his second day at our home and his mouth kept getting infected over and over again. Took 6 months for that to heal. With my other FDs, they did not have trouble healing after any dentals or other issues, so I don't think it's diabetes related, perhaps ECID (Every Cat Is Different).

The best way to treat your little man is to hometest. It's not hard, takes a week or two to get it down, but once you do, it's amazing how simple it can be.

Others will be by with more information, I just wanted to say hi.
 
Welcome! Your household sounds like great fun.

Our protocol has helped hundreds of cats into regulation and remission. We advocate

Wet lo carb food. See this website by a vet: www.catinfo.org We feed between 8-10% carbs using this food chart: Janet and Binky’s chart BUT if you are feeding dry, don't switch until you have mastered the next step. (My cat Oliver's blood glucose levels went down 100 points overnight when I switched from dry to wet.)

Hometesting. We wouldn't give insulin to our two legged children without knowing what their blood glucose levels are. We do the same for our 4 legged kids. Here's a video: Video for hometesting If you test, you know whether it is safe to give the amount of insulin you are planning on, and how the insulin is working.

And a mild slow acting insulin. Most people here use ProZinc, Lantus or Levemir.

This site is a wonderful resource. Do lots of reading and ask questions. We would love to help you help your Morphy.
 
tnThanks for the welcome! Morphy is on NPH .1cc morning and night. I have no idea what those initials stand for. I did call the vet after I posted and they said not to change his food yet. We still don't have a urine sample, and he goes back in a week. She said no one had ever asked that before. How odd. Since humans have to watch what they eat, I would think it would be the same. The lemur I know has a very restricted diet. Only one animal cookie a day. It's really tricky monitoring for fruit eaters, I'm so glad cats are easier.

Yes, I really want to keep track and test at home. I've been in insulin shock and it was horrible. Besides when I move into my own place I was thinking I could foster diabetic cats. Learned something new already, that they can have periods off insulin. I was horrified when I read about taking the sample from his ear. He won't let me touch his ears at all. The vet clipped a hind nail claw for the sample, and I watched a clip on taking it from the paw, whew, what a relief! Getting a clean urine sample is going to be much more difficult.

This is Da Boys. Back when Morphy was a baby and below where he's all grown up but still a kitten. He goes to Moosie or his sister to get washed.
morphygrows.jpg




The size difference then...he was attacking Moosie here...
morpheus-taps-moosie.jpg




And side by side nowadays. Although his ears look mangled now.
P1010002-1.jpg


Now people won't have to google serval, hee hee. Remember, Morphy is a BIG cat.
 
You said: "Morphy is on NPH .1cc morning and night. " Insulin is measured in International Units, not cc's. For the U100 insulin NPH is, 0.1 cc equals 10 units which is a very high dose of NPH (N) insulin. Are you realy using 1.0 units?
 
Wow! Beautiful big kitties!

Testing on the paw is fine - whatever it takes to get a number.

I think NPH is Humulin - not a popular insulin here. In most cats, it hits fast (within the first few hours) and doesn't last a whole cycle of 12 hours. It has worked in some cats. As you test, you'll be able to see if it works for your cat.
 
Humulin is Eli Lilly'd trade name for a family of Insulins:

It is currently sold by Eli Lilly under different types:
Humulin R (REGULAR human insulin injection [rDNA origin]) is a short-acting insulin that has a relatively short duration of activity as compared with other insulins.
Humulin R Regular U-500 (Concentrated) insulin human injection, USP (rDNA Origin) is a stronger concentration (500 units/mL) of Humulin R.
Humulin N (human NPH insulin injection [rDNA origin]) is an intermediate-acting insulin with a slower onset of action and a longer duration of activity than Humulin R.
Humulin 70/30 (70% human insulin isophane suspension, 30% human insulin injection [rDNA origin]) is a mixture insulin. It is an intermediate-acting insulin combined with the onset of action of Humulin
Humulin 50/50 (50% human insulin isophane suspension, 50% human insulin injection [rDNA origin]) is a mixture insulin. It is an intermediate-acting insulin combined with the onset of action of Humulin R.
 
Welcome, and beautiful babies!
Just a thought but maybe Morphy would do well on a raw food diet
just a thought since he is a rare bat..
 
He's on .1 cc in a insulin syringe. He's a fast learner. Tonight when I got out the insulin he was right there. He got his treat and didn't even react when I poked him. Wish all my patients were this easy. One of my cats practically turns herself inside out just getting her claws clipped! The vet wrote it down that way so I knew how much to give. He had to mix the insulin somehow, because the straight stuff was too potent. Sorry, but I don't really know what I'm talking about yet, so I just copied what was on the label.

All my cats are on Mazuri Exotic Small Feline. It's what zoos feed, I had to have it for the serval and just feed them all the same. I had them on pricey food anyway, like Iams, but this stuff actually made their fur even nicer and I don't usually have vet bills. But now I have two butter balls, two normal and one skinny diabetic boy I think every one's going to get their own mix. The serval gets chicken also, and peas for treats. I'm going to feel much better about it once I can home test him. He's not showing any reaction right after the shots, but he seems a bit brighter eyed. He's not doing his evening laps though. Usually they get to playing tag and rampaging around the house like a herd of elephants. The baby of the family is only a year old, so she pesters them until they play with her, just like any little sister. All of them are a bit subdued today. Because Morphy is getting extra treats and attention they are all being a bit more noodgie than usual. They are definitely a pride, complete with pecking order. Since three of them are my bottle babies it makes being Alpha a bit easier. Which means it's easier to treat them. No one argues the the mom lioness, not even the dad. I'm also bilingual. If they misbehave too badly I swear at them in Siamese cat. I have no idea what I'm saying, but evidently it's potent because they pay attention, LOL Morphy is missing the cat box more, but its totally clear. He was pumped full of Ringers yesterday. Probably one of the reasons he is doing better today.

Which brings up the question of uncontaminated urine samples. The vet said to fill the litter box with aquarium gravel. Any feedback? I read you can test with litmus strips but everyone on here seems to have glucose monitors.

I really appreciate you all taking time to show me the ropes. I can sure see how people can feel overwhelmed by all this. Luckily I'm waaaay past the needle trauma stage. Insulin needles are so tiny compared what I'm used to.
 
Yes,if you have trouble getting a sample as he goes, aquarium gravel works fine.

Are you waiting for a meter to test? It is scary shooting blind. We can help with hints for inexpensive meters. We have taught hundreds of people how to test over the Internet.
 
images


Again you said you are giving 0.1 cc of insulin. hat would mean drawing up the insulin to the 10 unit mark in the syringe. Are your doing that or are you drawing up to the 1 unit mark?
 
The one mark. It's marked .1 on the bottle because that's what it reads on the syringe. Plus the vet said he had to mix it because what he had was too strong, but I don't know exactly what he meant, but he did say that the "dosage" was not really what it read. I'm afraid I was a bit euphoric at that point, hearing it was diabetes and not something worse.

Good news tonight! When I picked up Morphy on Thursday, he just felt "wrong" so I rushed him to the vet. Now, he can't have put much weight on since morning, but when I picked him up just now, I swear he weighed more! He's lost that too boney feel sick animals have. I haven't changed his food yet, so that's not it. He's getting his "tom cat swagger" back too. And no, he hasn't actually been a tom cat since he was a kitten, he was born with cattitude. Jazz doesn't like other cats, so when they were kittens they didn't dare come too close to her. One day he happened to walk up next to her and she snarled and hissed at him. He looked down at her, instead of up, you could see his brain working the logistics out. His whole body language changed, he gave a little wave of his tail which was the feline equivalent of flipping her off, and she left! :lol:
 
I'm a little overwhelmed at trying to learn all this stuff, but I think I will at least make some of his diet. Of course, I just gave my meat grinder away, sigh. I'm not too sure why it needs to be ground unless it's the bones shattering we are worried about? The serval gets a whole piece of chicken, Morphy has stolen this before so I know he doesn't have issues with chunks of food, if it's just a texture issue. None of my cats are picky eaters. Morphy never went off his food either, he's been eating like normal this whole time, that's why I couldn't figure out why he was losing weight. I've fed both cooked and raw, without it affecting their appetites.

Is salmonella that big of an issue? I've had it three times since I started handling raw chicken every day more than 10 years ago, but the cats have never had it. I think their diet is healthier than mine. Because I've had so many species of animals, mostly non domestic, I have to be very careful. A lot of disinfectants are bad for critters, including Lysol, which is also bad for me. I have developed a sensitivity to many cleaners, including bleach. Recently I've been using Thyme oil, it kills 99.9% of bacteria on nonporous surfaces and doesn't have to be wiped off and doesn't affect my breathing. Another safe cleaner is Simple Green. I also use antibacterial water free hand cleaner any time I handle their food or wastes.
 
From this information it appears that you are using diluted N insulin. In order to find out how many units of insulin you are giving please provide the following information:
- Just what does the label of the insulin vial say?
- What type of syringe are you using?
- How much are you drawing up in the syring?

Are you drawing up the insulin to the 0.1 marking on a syringe like this:

B10255.jpg



TygerLilly said:
The one mark. It's marked .1 on the bottle because that's what it reads on the syringe. Plus the vet said he had to mix it because what he had was too strong, but I don't know exactly what he meant, but he did say that the "dosage" was not really what it read. I'm afraid I was a bit euphoric at that point, hearing it was diabetes and not something worse.

Good news tonight! When I picked up Morphy on Thursday, he just felt "wrong" so I rushed him to the vet. Now, he can't have put much weight on since morning, but when I picked him up just now, I swear he weighed more! He's lost that too boney feel sick animals have. I haven't changed his food yet, so that's not it. He's getting his "tom cat swagger" back too. And no, he hasn't actually been a tom cat since he was a kitten, he was born with cattitude. Jazz doesn't like other cats, so when they were kittens they didn't dare come too close to her. One day he happened to walk up next to her and she snarled and hissed at him. He looked down at her, instead of up, you could see his brain working the logistics out. His whole body language changed, he gave a little wave of his tail which was the feline equivalent of flipping her off, and she left! :lol:
Click to expand...
 
I can't read what is on the insulin bottle since the vet pasted over it with hand written instructions. But yes, what you have in the picture is how much I'm giving. I'm not sure what you mean about what type of syringe. It's an insulin one, brand Terumo, looks the same size as the one you have in the picture. 0.1 to 1.0 cc/ml

Tomorrow I go shopping for supplies. About how much should I feed a cat that normally weighs 15 to 18 pounds when I'm trying to put weight back on?
 
When you talk to the vet next time ask then how mush the insulin was diluted. If you post about dosing advice in the future make sure you state (or you spreadsheet states) the dilution as well of how many cc's you are giving. Otherwise you will will confuse others and get many questions asked that distracts from your question.
 
I really appreciate your advice, thanks for taking the time to educate a newbie. As yet I don't even know anything about spreadsheets, still reading. Can you suggest any other questions to ask my vet? From the reaction when I asked what to feed my cat, I'm guessing he doesn't have too many people actively involved with home treatment. At least there was an audible sigh of relief when he realized I had no problem giving insulin injections. I think he will be more than happy to have me home test and treat, but I don't know yet what to ask.
 
Here is a shopping list for hometesting supplies:


A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 25-26 gauge is good. Any brand will work.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

As far as questions for your vet, I would ask him about the insulin. Is it Humulin? Why is he diluting it and how would that affect the amount you are giving your cat? He should be able to show you how to test your kitty on the ear to get a blood sample: Video for hometesting

Our Oliver, a Maine Coon, was 16 pounds. He was not an active cat. We fed him 2 cans of Fancy Feast daily, once he was regulated. We fed them 2.5 - 3 cans when he was unregulated and hungry constantly.
 
Yes, but it is diluted, right? I would want to know exactly what it is, who diluted it and how. I don't think it is common for a vet to dilute insulin.
 
From what TigerLilly said, the vet diluted it. There is a dilutant for NPH insulin.

Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Yes, but it is diluted, right? I would want to know exactly what it is, who diluted it and how. I don't think it is common for a vet to dilute insulin.
Click to expand...
 
You all are so great!

Yes, the vet diluted the insulin before he gave it to me. He said what he had was too strong for a cat. I don't think he sees many diabetic cats from the sounds of it, more dogs.

Morphy's ears have collapsed from hematomas. He was operated on recently, I can't touch his ears without him getting stressed. It will have to be paws for this guy. Giving injections is going to be a lot easier than doing blood tests.

Tonight I was in the middle of something when the alarm for our night meds went off. He waited for a few minutes, then let me know it was time for his treat. This morning I had to fight him to let me pull up his scruff. It's that he doesn't trust, he never reacts to the needle at all.

I had to buy needles at the pharmacy today. Couldn't tell how long the needle was, it's much shorter than the one the vet gave me and on a long hair the longer needle gave me more confidence. How do I tell them the length?
 
Insulin syringes come with needles with either 5/16 (short) or 1/2 inch long needles. Some caretakers like the shorts and some like the longs. I like the shorts since it is less likely to go through both sides of the skin and thus not get the insulin in the into the cat. The needles also come in different diameters, with the higher number being smaller in diameter. However, it is easier to bend the small diameter needles. The smallest diameter is 31 gauge.
 
I used the short 5/16 and the smallest gauge and Bean did not mind the shot. But I did bend a few getting the insulin into the shot,until I got used to the gauge size. I personally thought Bean appreciated the less intrusive needle. But Bean is a short hair girl.
Hope you find something that works for you both.
 
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