Introducing LeeLee (from Winnipeg)

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supervix56

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone,

LeeLee was just diagnosed with diabetes on Tuesday. I've been reading information on felinediabetes.com and getting some info from online friends with diabetic cats - I'm getting very frustrated and overwhelmed with how everything I read contradicts what my vet says. I don't know what to do!

Here's where we're at:
*LeeLee is getting 2 units of Lantus a day (at roughly 7am and 7pm)
*I've got Hills M/D (canned and dry) from the vet. I know dry isn't good, but LeeLee doesn't love canned, so I thought I'd better have a backup.
*Lee doesn't really like the M/D canned, so I've had to give her the dry
*I've also given her canned Wellness, which all my cats frequently eat, and she'll eat a reasonable amount of that
*The vet office said Wellness was better than her eating nothing, but that we should try a different diabetes prescription food so that it would be easier to regulate her. This seems to completely contradict everything I've read.
*For her size, she should get about two cans of food a day. The vet tech told me she should get one can in the morning, wait until I've seen she eats it, then give her her shot. Same thing at night. No food in between. This is ridiculous as she'll eat MAYBE a quarter of a can in one sitting. The vet office then told me that she could snack in between in order to get enough food in her.
*If I'm leaving food out, she's not necessarily interested in eating whatever I give her right before her shot. And I don't want to give her her shot if she hasn't eaten. Also, how much should she have eaten before she gets her shot?
*I told the vet I planned to do home testing and he told me I would find it very difficult to get blood from a cat. I plan to buy some lancets and see if I can do it, then buy the monitor.

Obviously I need my vet's cooperation in order to get LeeLee regulated, but I'm finding them very inflexible regarding food. I don't want to do this on my own and harm LeeLee.

Any advice/opinions welcome!

Thanks,
Erin
 
Re: New member: introducing LeeLee

Hi guys and welcome to the diabetes board!

It's kinda scary, reading stuff online that goes against what your vet says .. I think we've all been there! Lantus is a good insulin for a cat, in fact I do believe if a cat's diabetes is caught early enough, and the proper use of lantus, about 84% of cats go into remission, or being diet controlled with no need of insulin shots!

2 units, in my opinion, seems like a good bit .. most of us here start with 1 unit and work our way up from there .. Home testing is very, very important .. you would never just give extra insulin to a child or adult and not check the levels, right? Most of us here use human meters, easily picked up from wal mart, krogers, etc. Yes, the vet can give you an animal blood meter, but it will be very expensive, and the strips are outrageous .. There are plenty of links here on this board that can teach you how to home test, and if you post your location, city/state, someone may be close enough by to come over and lend a helping hand!

You're right about the dry cat food .. it's not good .. at all .. most dry cat foods, even the "diabetes prescription cat food" is high in carbs .. much higher then any cat, especially a diabetic cat, should ever be eating .. There is a list of approved foods on this board as well .. we feed mocha, our sugar kitty, special kitty from wal mart .. it fits easily into our budget, is always at the store in case we need it, and runs at about 3 or 4% carbs ..

As far as feedings go, small frequent meals are best for diabetic cats, just like diabetic humans .. In the beginning your cat may seem hungrier then normal .. that's because she is! Her body is using up all her food, and needing more .. Once she becomes more regulated, the food amounts usually settle down ...

This is really good that you are being proactive about your kitty's health .. you're going to find a TON of information on this site, probably an overwhelming amount of information! But continue asking questions and continue reading .. it DOES get easier!
 
Re: New member: introducing LeeLee

Welcome!

Yes, unfortunately your vet is incorrect about a few things. This is really common--I don't think any of use were getting 100% correct information about dosing, diet, insulin choice and home testing when our cats were first diagnosed. Your vet has the insulin right, but not the other stuff, I'm afraid. I'm going to link some documents for you to print out and give to your vet. Most of the time vets just haven't seen the current research; but remember they also have a financial motivation to stick to the old school way of treating diabetes. Your vet is making money from office curves and prescription diets, even if they aren't in your cat's best interest. That's why it's a good idea to show them why this is not the best thing for your cat.

2u is the maximum starting dose for a cat, and usually only very large framed cats like Maine Coons (not overweight cats) start out that high. The starting dose formula for Lantus is .25u per kg of ideal weight. Here is the Lantus dosing protocol that contains the formula: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf. Here is also a link to the article that proves the safety and efficacy of this protocol: . Cats dosed according to the protocol via home testing on a low carb, canned diet have an 84% remission rate. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin, so starting out at 2u is not a great idea, unless you have a large framed cat.

Home testing is a necessity. If you're not home testing, you're dosing insulin blind and that is very dangerous and not very effective in treating the diabetes. A human would never dream of injecting insulin without daily testing; it's the same thing for cats. See p. 218 of the American Animal Hospital Association diabetes guidelines where it states "Home monitoring of BG is ideal and strongly encouraged to obtain the most accurate interpretation of glucose relative to clinical signs. Most owners are able to learn to do this with a little encouragement, and interpretation of glucose results is much easier for the clinician." Home testing seems hard a first, but after a week or two is is incredibly easy. Because vet stress inflates blood sugar numbers obtained at the vet's office, it's the only way to know how the insulin is working in your cat. Also, vet curves are too infrequent to be very helpful.

There is absolutely no food made by Hills, prescription or otherwise, that is appropriate for a diabetic cat. They all contain grains, which keep blood glucose levels high. The only prescription food that is suitable for a diabetic cat is Purina DM, but I would not recommend that food. It's nearly exactly the same thing as Fancy Feast, but you're paying a huge inflated price for it just because it has a prescription label. You can get a premium low carb canned food like Wellness for less than what you're paying for the DM. There is NO dry food suitable for a diabetic cat (or any cat for that matter). Check out this article for more info on prescription diets: http://catinfo.org/#Prescription_Diets_and_Marketing_Labels.

What matters in foods for diabetics is carb content. You want to feed something less than 10% (but preferably below 8% carbs). Here is a link to the cat food nutrition charts that contain these values: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm. Any of the canned, grain free Wellness is great to feed a diabetic.

Cats' metabolisms are twice as fast as peoples, so it's best if cats eat more than twice a day. This is especially important for diabetic cats (and diabetic people), because it helps spread out the impact of food on blood glucose levels. So feed as frequently as you want--you just want to pull the food 2 hours before your pre-shot tests. Bandit eats 4 times a day--every 6 hours. Again, show your vet p. 218 of the AAHA guidelines that states: "Feeding meals four times daily is ideal to prevent clinical hypoglycemia for cats on insulin." Also note on p. 217 where it says to feed canned food, and "Provide the lowest amount of carbohydrate levels in the diet that the cat will eat." You can see from the food charts that M/D is 14% carbs, and most Wellness is about 3-6% carbs.

There are a ton of very helpful people here that have been exactly where you are and are ready to help you out, so don't be afraid to ask. :smile:
 

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Re: New member: introducing LeeLee

Thanks to both of you for replying.

I spoke with my vet today and told him I'd be feeding LeeLee Wellness as she didn't like the M/D. He said that was fine (well, first he tried to convince me to try a different prescription food.) So right now she's getting Wellness canned and D/M dry. Since I'm not home testing yet I didn't want to take away the dry. I plan to take away the food 2 hours before her shots (if I'm home to do so).

Before she was diagnosed she seemed fine, aside from drinking so much water. Now she looks a little sick, though she's still acting pretty normal.

When her bloodwork was done at the vet, her BG was 28.2 (I'm in Canada - I think that's 507.6 in the numbers used on this board?)

I think she's around 13 pounds, so it does sound like 2 units is too much. Or was her BG particulary high and so that's why he started us off at 2 units? Should I ask the vet if I can give her less? I don't think he's in until Monday and he doesn't seem very impressed by what I've read on the internet :roll: I could ask one of the other vets at the office.

I just bought a Bayer Contour tonight and will try it out tomorrow. She's not impressed by all the poking and will probably hate me by the end of tomorrow. I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba if anybody nearby wants to help out :smile:
 
Re: New member: introducing LeeLee

It's probably a good idea to not make too big of a change in food if you're not yet home testing. I'm hoping you'll be able to pick up supplies for home testing soon. It will give you incredible control over LeeLee's diabetes and even more importantly, allow you to keep her safe. My cat hated M/D and she loves to eat! Just so you are aware, the M/D dry is 13% carb. It will likely keep your cat's numbers fairly high.

If 13 lbs is a good weight for LeeLee, then her initial dose would be approximately 1.5u. (initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. If she's underweight, you use her actual weight. Many people prefer so start at a smaller dose but, I do think that the vet's recommendation of 2.0u may be too much.

I would edit the subject line in your first post in this thread to ask if anyone is in Winnipeg. I believe there is an experienced member in your area.
 
LeeLee isn't underweight. She's not obese...maybe plump? Chubby?

I tried the home testing half an hour ago and got it on my first try! I'll try to keep in mind that I likely won't always be successful. Can't wait to tell my vet though, who thought I wouldn't be able to do it.

She had insulin at 7am and then at 1pm her BG was 14.7. I think I read somewhere to multiply that by 18 to get the numbers you use here - so 265?

LeeLee's going back to the vet on Aug 27th. Assuming everything is OK until then, I'll bring in that information that shows the initial does should be 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms.
 
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