Introducing...Jack!

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rjshib

Member Since 2014
Hello All!

I've been lurking around, trying to read all of the info I can before posting so I get everything in. I'll get right to the introductions.

Jack is a 10 y/o m/n seal point Siamese who was diagnosed on Oct. 12 with "profound" DKA, and subsequently Diabetes. He spent 5 days in a 24-hour critical care animal hosipital. When he was discharged, we were given directions to dose him with 2.0u every 12 hours. I began testing his BG about two days after his return from the hospital. At the same time, I began to follow the TR protocol found on diabeticcathelp.com and to receive help from the folks over there in terms of what scale to use to dose Jack, etc. We successfully transitioned him and our other cat, Mia, to a lo-carb diet of Fancy Feast Chicken Classic.

The first few weeks were very nerve-wracking for me as I was worried about his DKA and making sure that was no longer an issue. His BG numbers were also pretty inconsistent and we'd have some great nadirs and then he'd skyrocket because I think he was just going too low and his body didn't know how to handle it. I began feeling like perhaps the dosing wasn't quite right and maybe I needed to look elsewhere for advice on what to do. It's not that I didn't like the other forum, I just thought maybe a protocol specific to Lantus might be better. I also spoke with my vet who has been very willing to read over any information I send her and is all for me doing the home testing and dose adjusting. She also voiced concern over using a sliding scale instead of a consistent dose, so after speaking with her and deciding to follow my gut, I decided to switch things up.

I have been dosing Jack at 1.75u for the last 8 days or so, and there has been a huge improvement in his numbers. His tendency to skyrocket (he'd be great all night and then be super high in the morning before his next dose) has greatly reduced, and his numbers have been fantastic for the last 36 hours. Sometimes his nadirs won't be until +10 or +11. I still don't quite understand why that is, or how that works. Today, I have also experimented a bit with overlap just because his dosing times got a bit out of whack. With the previous protocol I was following, one never doses on numbers lower than 150. So, before I had more thoroughly read this site's Lantus TR protocol, I was holding off on dosing until Jack's numbers were above 150, so the times got pushed to the right a bit. Unfortunately, they need to come back to what they were because of my work schedule. So starting with today's doses, I did a bit of overlapping. It has worked so far- Jack did go a bit low this afternoon (to 40) but he was acting perfectly fine, so I gave him some food and lowered the evening dose to 1.5 as is suggested when a kitty drops to 40. So far, so good. Tested him at +2 and he was at 132, which is where he was when I dosed him. Will do a +6 and see where he is tonight, too. Honestly, I was beginning to think that Jack would never have consistent numbers below 200, so to have 36 hours of it is pretty amazing. Hope we can maintain it for a bit.

I look forward to meeting everyone and getting to know the boards, etc. I plan on starting a spreadsheet and getting Jack's bac klog in, too, so be on the lookout for that. If there are any questions for me, or if there is someting I forgot to add, please let me know!
 
Hi there and Welcome! :cool:

You have come to the best place a sugar kitty can be.
Plenty of experienced Lantus users to guide you.

Hang in there - and hang in here. Plenty of information will be coming your way.
 
Hi! Welcome to you and Jack. You've done a great job getting started and doing your homework on feline diabetes. I'm sure we can help you learn what you need to know to help Jack.

Can you explain what you mean by playing with the overlap? Do you mean perhaps that you shot early before 12 hours had passed since the previous shot?
 
Have you had a chance to browse the Tight Regulation and Relaxed Forums?
Each has a description of a protocol for Lantus; both state that dosing as close to 12 hours as possible works best.

Start Low Go Slow
Tight Regulation protocol

When we have to do time changes, we shift the time by either 15 minutes per shot or a total of 30 minutes per day. More than that and too much overlap may act like a dose increase; too litle overlap may act like a dose decrease
 
Thank You for the warm welcome, all! :-)

Julie & Punkin and BJM- yes, when I said overlap, I meant I was dosing a bit before the +12. Right now I am only doing so to get him back on a schedule that works so we CAN dose him every +12. My husband and I both work full-time, so we need to get him back to times when we will be home to dose. As I said, we were following a protocol that never shot on numbers lower than 150, so his dose times kept getting pushed back, and now that we are doing every +12 with this protocol, we need his dosing schedule to be back to 6:30am/pm-ish. Right now, I think the overlap is working well because it is keeping him from spiking, which was kind of his MO previously. He has been under 200 for about 44 hours, which is his longest run ever. So the bit of overlap has been working. Hope that clears up the confusion.
 
WAHOO you got the spreadsheet attached to your signature! Good job!

When you enter into the spreadsheet, your amps is the BG when you shoot in the morning and pmps is the BG when you shoot in the evening. They mean AM or PM preshot. Then all the + numbers are how many hours past that particular shot, ie, +2 is 2 hours after the shot. We look at Lantus blood tests in relationship to how many hours after the shot.

We really encourage 12 hour intervals unless someone with an extensive amount of Lantus experience has looked at a cycle and thinks it's ok to shoot early, because as BJ said, when you shoot early it acts the same as increasing a dose. If you're just working back 15 minutes a shot or 30 minutes per day, then that's fine. But more than that can become a problem because of its effects on the dose.

I wanted to flag a couple of posts for you. Look here for information on the Insulin Depot. Specifically I wanted to suggest the link on that post that is called "Lantus & Levemir, what's the difference?" - not because you need to know the difference but because it explains how Lantus works in the body.

The TR Protocol (also can be found on the link above) is the only dosing protocol for diabetic cats that has been published in a professional veterinary journal. It sounds like the tight regulation protocol is going to be the one for you. The premise of TR is that if you can keep a cat's blood sugar tightly regulated, ie, in the normal range 50-120 on a human glucometer, the cat's pancreas may be able to heal and the cat may be able to go off of insulin and become diet-controlled. Even if that doesn't happen, which it doesn't for some cats, the cat's body is protected from the damages of high levels of glucose.

I'd encourage you to post in the Lantus/Levemir Tight Regulation Insulin Support Group where experienced Lantus users can help you learn the finer points of tight regulation. Sounds like you're already off to a great start and Jack is already responding well. Glad you found FDMB and are finding what you need to help Jack.

Let us know how we can help you.
 
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