Introducing A Fae & Ben the Bengal Cat

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A Fae

A Fae

Member Since 2021
Hi, I took Ben in to get dentals because he has a tooth ache. The vet called to inform me he could not go under anesthesia because his glucose level was too high, probable diabetes. I was in shock, I never noticed any signs. I thought they told me 800 but actually it was 460. I am working with a funding group and the gal who runs it has a diabetic cat and told me to take a breath and calm down. That was a specialty vet, dentals, spay & neuter etc. so they really just sent me home. I gotta figure it out from here. Being in poverty makes everything more difficult.

Ben was born 4/1/2018 and just turned 13. I've had him since he was 6 weeks. My daughter took him in to be neutered when he was 6 months as I don't have transportation. Ben's father was a Bengal running loose in the neighborhood where Ben's tiny calico mom lived. I found him in the news paper. Ben is a self proclaimed indoor only cat. I had tried to put him in the only cage I had to take him to the vet a couple years ago and he fought me hard and hid well, I had to cancel the appointment.

I got info about this forum/site from the great people at Feline-CRF-support. I was part of that group pre-2006 when I was treating my 18-20 year old Groovy cat for CRF. Since then I have a brain injury from carbon monoxide poisoning and life is not the same. I am retired/disability.

I think Ben may have had his glucose level get very high as he was so freaked out putting him in a carrier and transporting in a taxi 5+ miles, he doesn't even want to go on my patio. His tooth is really hurting him, not eating well, drooling etc. the pic is a couple days ago. So first thing I gotta get my BRAVE Momma on and try to test him. I have a glucose meter, strips, and lancets. I read some of your info, but basically, as most, I am scared. BUT I learned to do sub-Qs with Groovy and Ben needs me. I am posting his numbers so if you are curious you can check em out.
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I tried to get blood from his ear tonight. I was confused and tried to turn the inside of the ear toward me behind him. OH he gets the outside of his ear poked. I had to laugh at myself when I went back over the photos of the process. He was ok and didn't seem to bother him. I have a string with a small hoop tied on my flashlight and he thought that was fun. Then we both got bored when I only got a dot the size of the period at the end of this sentence. <---
Tomorrow I'm sure we'll get it :D
 
Welcome sorry you haven't got a response yet, I am so very sorry about your brain injury, we need to know some information about Ben
I will give you the link so you can do it. If you look at the end of my post you will see it in gray writing


https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/
Click on your name upper right hand corner , a drop down will appear , tap in signature , fill out info
  • On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.
 
I see you are home testing, please do your signature so we know if you are using a human or pet meter, what insulin he is on, what are you feeding him So the vet was no help at all?

We have a spreadsheet we use to enter our cats BG numbers on to track progress, to see how the insulin is working, or in case you need help with dosing.

I will give you the link below , if you have trouble setting it up please ask we have
members who will set it up for you
 
A Fae said:
. I am working with a funding group and the gal who runs it has a diabetic cat and told me to take a breath and calm down. That was a specialty vet, dentals, spay & neuter etc. so they really just sent me home. I gotta figure it out from here. Being in poverty makes everything more difficult.
Click to expand...
Do you mean you are getting help with supplies?
You can also contact DCIN for help
https://dcin.dreamhosters.com/assistance-programs/
 
Both stress and pain/inflammation from the tooth can raise the blood sugar, though 463 is pretty high for that.

There are protocols for anaesthesia for diabetics, maybe the vet isn't familiar with them. My girl Neko had her first dental when she started the day at 452. And that was her regular vet. After that I went to a dental specialist, and they are more familiar with older animals with issues and she was getting more complicated. The problem with not dealing with the tooth, is that it can prevent a cat from getting regulated. Many vets want to see the cat regulated before doing a dental - catch 22. Maybe phone around and see if there is another vet nearby who does dentals on diabetics?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Both stress and pain/inflammation from the tooth can raise the blood sugar, though 463 is pretty high for that.

There are protocols for anaesthesia for diabetics, maybe the vet isn't familiar with them. My girl Neko had her first dental when she started the day at 452. And that was her regular vet. After that I went to a dental specialist, and they are more familiar with older animals with issues and she was getting more complicated. The problem with not dealing with the tooth, is that it can prevent a cat from getting regulated. Many vets want to see the cat regulated before doing a dental - catch 22. Maybe phone around and see if there is another vet nearby who does dentals on diabetics?
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Thanks @Wendy&Neko
 
Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
 
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Welcome to you and Ben. I amone of the people that sent you here from the CRF board. I used to poke tge o side of the ear as Max’s fur was black. Nothing wrong with that.
 
THANKS. I have had a bad weekend and just getting on the internet now.
I got blood from the 2nd try BUT got an error that meter wasn't ready.
Of course I was very nervous. Ben has an 11AM vet appointment.
That should send us on our way.
 
Yeah, I finally got the first glucose reading this morning. First at Surgery Center was 463 today was 432.
I asked the vet for Vetsulin as that is what the non-profit told to me ask for and they could help me with it.
The vet said NO. Basically it was she only prescribes Glargine and her "compounding" pharmacy quoted $59 I think that was for one pen. I called my non-profit University Pharmacy and the Pharmacist found Semglee glargine 5 3ml pens for $165.48.
After research I'm glad to go with glargine. I get the prescription today.
Trying to fill out the signature and I don't understand what
Dosing: -->TR or SLGS<-- or Custom (if applicable)
-->Acro, IAA,<-- or Cushings (if applicable)
The only issue with Ben is his teeth started hurting about a month ago.
Thanks
 
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A Fae said:
Yeah, I finally got the first glucose reading this morning. First at Surgery Center was 463 today was 432.
I asked the vet for Vetsulin as that is what the non-profit told to me ask for and they could help me with it.
The vet said NO. Basically it was she only prescribes Glargine and her "compounding" pharmacy quoted $59 I think that was for one pen. I called my non-profit University Pharmacy and the Pharmacist found Semglee glargine 5 3ml pens for $165.48.
After research I'm glad to go with glargine. I get the prescription today.
Trying to fill out the signature and I don't understand what
Dosing: -->TR or SLGS<-- or Custom (if applicable)
-->Acro, IAA,<-- or Cushings (if applicable)
The only issue with Ben is his teeth started hurting about a month ago.
Thanks
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Glad you are going to use semglee glargine, what did the vet say about his teeth
That could definitely raise his BG if his teeth are bad
How many units did the vet tell you to start with
Do you have U-100 syringes, preferably the ones with half unit markings

Here is an explanation about the dosing methods
We also have a spreadsheet we use to enter our cats BG, so we can see how the insulin is working, if you need help with dosing we need to see the spreadsheet and the tests you have dine in order to give you advice if needed, when to increase or decrease, etc

I can ask someone to set it up for you if you want to, let us know
The Fancy Feast Beef Naturals is that the PATE you are feeding?
Or the one that says in gravy?

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
 
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Vetsulin is not a good insulin for cats although a few do okay on it. It works for dogs. Around here we use TR and SLGS. There’s really nothing called custom, especially for a cat new to diabetes. When diagnosed did if have ketones or were you told he was DKA? It would most definitely say so on your discharge papers. You would not test for Acro or IAA unless he was not responding to insulin increases and was getting over 5 units usually so ignore that for now.

His bg is high enough that you don’t need to decide on a dosing method right away. With SLGS reductions in dosing are earned by falling under 90. With TR that number is 50. Read over the methods and take some time to decide which might work for you. If feeding any dry food you will follow SLGS. Let us know when you get the insulin. What dose was suggested by your vet as a starting dose?
 
No vet really right now. First they got stuck on "your going to put him down, right, treating diabetic cat is too much money for you." Then I told them I was learning to monitor blood glucose with my meter. "OH NO, taking it from his ear, he'll hate it and you. Curves need to be done."... I was getting disillusioned and started thinking I can't do all of this. My brain injury gets in the way but this will end up being our new normal. They did a urine test there, no ketones. I got a prescription for clavamox, they compounded it with chicken flavor. I had to syringe 1.2 ml, that made him hide. Small pills with pill pockets are easier for me. I had to go to the vet to pick up the prescription, asked if someone could show me how to give the shot. Told I would have to come back after I got the prescription filled. I don't feel I was treated well. I use to take my Fay Wray pitbull there n/p. They may be COVID overwhelmed. I'll talk to my friend who is a vet about 10 miles from me. I can no longer drive so anything takes the whole day.
I started antibiotics tonight, I'll start shots tomorrow.
I am use to most meds starting low dose with slow increase to what metabolism tolerates. The prescription says 2units 2x/day. Reading the Semglee site (for humans) it says dosing is .2ml/kg weight. With the kitty that would be 1unit. I thought I would start there with 4x monitoring to see how he does. I don't think it would be good for a drastic change. "Sudden Change Is Destabilizing"
The only thing the vet gave me was the invoice with the $ amounts I paid. After the 4th time asking they finally emailed the UA results. I will add it to my sig
Rough day bussing to Dr 2 pharmacies, 2 stores and poor sick kitty. NIGHT!
 
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How much does Ben weigh? With TR the starting dose is .25 per kg. With SLGS it’s .50 but if a really large cat he might need 1.0 to start. Since you are having vet difficulties, very common by the way, I would start following SLGS. We need to get you set up with a spreadsheet. If you need help there are folks that can set it up in just a few minutes.

The vast majority of cats dint mind ear pricks and actually come running to get tested and get a treat. Curves at the vet are a waste of money and not as accurate as home testing because the stress of going to the vet is gone.

If you go to the Lantus forum you will find yellow stickies at the top. It’s a lot of information to take in and can be overwhelming. You can learn how to handle Lantus and give shots though. Ask questions as you have them, as often as needed. I am sorry your vet is such a jerk.
 
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Here is a video I found on YouTube just to show you how to make a tent on your kitty so you know where to inject, she shaved her cat, don't worry you don't have to do that
I thought it was a good one to show you because the woman really shows you how to make the tent and where to inject
You can feel it with your finger yours self
 

When you pull up on the skin , I have always used the scruff, you want to make a tent, you want to pull up on the scruff until you can feel the tent, it's an indentation in the skin, you can feel it with you finger , that's where you inject under the skin.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Morning do you have any numbers to enter on your spreadsheet?
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I'm going slow, I get overwhelmed if I don't. I just tried to enter info and I can't. I'll try again.
I started shots last night. on the SLGS I'm suppose to give .5 IU I got the needles for the pen and it starts at 1 IU. If I give him 1 at his 12 hour shot can I back off to .5 for his 3rd shot? I have to go uptown today an Walgreens should have the ones with .5?
 
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glucose came down 11.5 hrs after 1st insulin shot to 202.
I think I figured out the spreadsheet :D
THANKS for all your help, I could not have done it without you!
 
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A Fae said:
I'm going slow, I get overwhelmed if I don't. I just tried to enter info and I can't. I'll try again.
I started shots last night. on the SLGS I'm suppose to give .5 IU I got the needles for the pen and it starts at 1 IU. If I give him 1 at his 12 hour shot can I back off to .5 for his 3rd shot? I have to go uptown today an Walgreens should have the ones with .5?
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Good job setting up the spreadsheet, that's why we buy the U-100 syringes with half unit markings because you can only do 1 unit increases or decreases
Just put the syringe in the pen and draw from there
I don't know if Walgreen's sells half unit syringes
I can give you a web site that does, you will call them and tell them to call your vet and the get can send them a script to them

One other thing telling us what the BG is in hours doesn't help us, we are all in different time zones
This is what you would do
If you test Ben 2 hours after giving insulin , you would put that number in the cell or square where it says +2
If you test 3 hours after giving insulin you put that number in the cell where it says +3
and so on until you test his PMPS

You should be testing Ben a few times each day during the morning and night cycle to see how the insulin is working for him.
You can scatter the test times like filling in a puzzle
One day you can test @+2, then @+5 , then @+7
Next day maybe @+3, then @+6, then @+8
Both cycles morning and night
You want to see how low the insulin is taking him and when
I can tag a few members about the dose who have commented here. Any news on getting his dental? You said he had a bad tooth


@Wendy&Neko



@tiffmaxee
Thank you ladies
 
If you can get a test anywhere from 4 to 7 hours after the shot, it'll help us figure out how he's doing with this insulin dose. We determine how to change the Lantus dose based on how low it takes the cat, not the preshot numbers. The preshot test is essential to make sure it's safe to give insulin, so good job doing those so far.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you can get a test anywhere from 4 to 7 hours after the shot, it'll help us figure out how he's doing with this insulin dose. We determine how to change the Lantus dose based on how low it takes the cat, not the preshot numbers. The preshot test is essential to make sure it's safe to give insulin, so good job doing those so far.
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Hank you @Wendy&Neko
 
Doing more testing. I have been very sick but well enough now to test and post now. As for his teeth, I spent his dentals monies on diabetes supplies, clovamax, vet visits etc. I applied for help with C.A.P I still need to find out what stable glucose number the vet dentist want for them to do the procedure. Clavamax seems to help as he is eating better. Changing his food back to HALO as I like the ingredients, and no by products, never recalled. I like feeding higher quality food.
 
A Fae said:
Doing more testing. I have been very sick but well enough now to test and post now. As for his teeth, I spent his dentals monies on diabetes supplies, clovamax, vet visits etc. I applied for help with C.A.P I still need to find out what stable glucose number the vet dentist want for them to do the procedure. Clavamax seems to help as he is eating better. Changing his food back to HALO as I like the ingredients, and no by products, never recalled. I like feeding higher quality food.
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@A Fae

This is what it says when you are following SLGS
Hold the dose for at least a week:
  • Unless your cat won’t eat or you suspect hypoglycemia
  • Unless your kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L). If kitty falls below 90 mg/dL (5 mmol/L) decrease the dose by 0.25 unit immediately.
I'm going to tag some members to see if you should reduce his dose for tonight

@tiffmaxee

@Chris & China (GA)
 
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Sorry I started that new thread, didn't mean to. Ben's numbers went up today. I found a bubble in the pen that was hard to bleed out. He may not have received insulin for 24 hours due to bubble. The pharmacist told me the pen only needed to be bled for first shot. I had been bleeding the pen but thought it was wasting insulin. I would rather waste it than Ben not get it.
 
Could someone look at Ben's spreadsheet please. His BG has been between 100-147 today. I am just nervous. I am using a glargine pen with pen needles and giving the lowest dose on that which is 1U. I'm sure I need to lower his dose but need the syringes first.
I called the local Walgreens and tech said they have the proper syringe with the 1/2 increments. I won't be able to get there until Monday. I think we should be okay and maybe it's his pancreas kicking back in. He had infected teeth and was on Clavimox which seemed to clear up the infection. That may have contributed to the high BG
I will do another reading in about 2-3 hours then the AMPS in 5.5 hrs from now, THANKS!
 
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Sorry no one responded earlier. Looks like he is doing well on this dose. If you pick one of the dosing methods, we can advice you accordingly. The reduction points for both methods are different.

You can also buy syringes with 1/2 unit marks at Walmart. Their ReliOn brand of syringes have 1/2 unit marks. You want the syringes with 30unit(cc) capacity. They are $12.58 for a box of 100.
To reduce you, will need the syringes since you can't shoot less than 1U with a pen.

Now that you have switched to Glargine, you can post in the Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir) forum. You will get a lot more eyes of Lantus users on your posts :)
 
Bandit's Mom said:
you can post in the Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir) forum. You will get a lot more eyes of Lantus users on your posts :)
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I don't know the brand but Walgreen's has **0.3cc, 31g syringes with 5/16" needles and half unit markings***
Without my own transportation, Walgreen's is easier for me to get to than Walmart is. (I don't shop at Walmart anyway).

THANKS! I just don't know what is going on right now. It's like all of a sudden I find out the University's pre-med classes start in an hour and I am pushed to start classes today. My sister was murdered in Las Vegas on May 5th, Ben's Dx comes on May 15, then I was notified of Housing inspection 2 days before the inspection.
I appreciate you looking over Ben's numbers I thought things were okay but I sure don't know what I'm doing yet even though I spend hours studying, reading info on this site and others. I'll get it, I treated 17 year old Groovy until he was 20 for CRF thanks to a GREAT yahoo! feline CRF group, they recommended this site last month for Ben :)
 
I'm so sorry for the loss of your sister! Feline diabetes is pretty overwhelming at the beginning - even without everything else you are dealing with! We are here to help you. :bighug:

A Fae said:
I don't know the brand but Walgreen's has **0.3cc, 31g syringes with 5/16" needles and half unit markings***
Click to expand...
These should work
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I'm so sorry for the loss of your sister! Feline diabetes is pretty overwhelming at the beginning - even without everything else you are dealing with! We are here to help you. :bighug:These should work
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Thanks so much. I got a little cat nap and feeling a bit better. Communities of such wonderful people helping each and everyone that needs and asks for help, restores my faith in humanity.
I'm going to try to make it to get syringes today, If not I should have them for afternoon cycle Monday.
My plan is to take the dose down to .75 for the next week. Numbers look low enough he should be able to handle that.
I have not decides on nor started on a dosing method yet since they both require shots under 1Unit. I only have needles for the Pen at the moment.
He did not have KETONES in his urine at uranalysis.
His weight has been steady from 2 vets 5/13 = 11.70# 5/18 = 11.72# Home 6/4 = 12.00# His usual weight has been between 12-13#
Looks like he did loose abt 1.3# that he is regaining now mouth infection clearing.
 
No ketones is good news! maybe the mouth infection clearing is also improving his numbers.

Once you get the 1/2 unit syringes, do look at the dosing protocols and pick one since reductions depend on which protocol you choose.

Hope to see you over at the Lantus forum for you next post. :-)
 
It’s a good idea to check the urine for ketones. Since you plan to hold the dose for a week I suggest for now you follow SLGS. Reductions will be if under 90. With our other method reductions are if under 50 and you hold the dose a shorter amount of time, 3-5 days usually, unless you see mostly blue and green.

That being said TR gives the best chance at remission. I too hope to see you posting on Lantus. I think I was one that sent you from the CRF group to the fdmb. I hope to see you on the Lantus forum tomorrow.

I am so sorry about your sister. :bighug:
 
tiffmaxee said:
I am so sorry about your sister. :bighug:
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THANK YOU. Yes, you are one of my CRF friends that led me here, and thanks for that.

I have read through the dosing page an getting overwhelmed with it. There is so much to do and with my brain injury from carbon monoxide poisoning I have to keep re-reading and still not making sense. I have a struggle with every day life. I am trying to keep ben alive and comfortable. Now I understand why the vet wasn't sure I could do it, but I am. As they say One Step At A time. And slowly I go.

Bandit's Mom said:
Hope to see you over at the Lantus forum for you next post.
Click to expand...

Yes, I will see you as I make the big move to the Lantus forum. See you on the flip side.
PEACE!
 
As long as you post daily and ask for advice we will help you get through this. There’s a lot of information to absorb. Just keep asking us. :bighug: You can do this with our help.
 
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