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Phoenix53

Member Since 2014
Hello. I am Caryn and our cat, Sam, has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
He is in bad shape right now. Very high BG, ketoacidosis, dehydrated. He is at the vet right now, but the plan is to bring him home tonight, to minimize his stress.

I don't have any labs right now.

Sam is about 8 1/2, neutered male, orange tabby DSH. He is our most high-strung cat (we have 6) and he really only bonds with one. He is historically difficult to restrain.He loves a good lap, but he id the cat that has to have his nails cut just a couple at a time. We have never really been able to pill him successfully, he fights like crazy.

I feed a diet of Fancy Feast classic Turkey and Giblets and raw. I try for a ratio of about 50/50.

Right now, we need to stabilize him, of course, it is a holiday weekend. (kids and cats...2am, or the weekend.)

Please any feedback would be helpful. Money is, unfortunately, a consideration right now. So how can I get the most bang for my buck?

Thank you.

Caryn and Sam
(and Pinky, Tov, Custard, Dorrie and Skittish. And Emily, Olivia, Sean and Liam.)
 
Welcome to FDMB, Caryn!

As you can see, I am a relatively new member, so I won't pretend like I have all of the answers. What I CAN tell you is that there are a lot of people here who will give you fantastic advice about how to care for your kitty. This board will get you through the holiday weekend and tell you if you do have an emergency that needs to go to the vet.

I can give you some words of encouragement, though. My cat, like yours, hates to be handled. We could NEVER get her to take pills. She was diagnosed after a bout of severe pancreatitis, for which we had to give her pills for a little over a week and each one was a tremendous fight. Here's the good news: the insulin shots are SO much easier. My cat doesn't fight me at all about her shots. Last night, she was on my lap and I just reached over, grabbed the needle and injected her. She never stopped purring. Once your cat gets used to the idea that you will be handling him just a little bit, the shots are easy. There are lots of links on how to do the shots here. The insulin is expensive, but it lasts for about 6 months if stored properly (refrigerated).

It is REALLY important to test blood sugar. I made the mistake of not looking at the cost of strips when I bought my first meter. The folks here recommend the Relion Micro from WalMart. The meter is around $20, and the strips are $35 for 100. (Strips for other meters can cost up to $2 per strip.) You will save a lot of money using Relion. If there isn't a WalMart near you, there is an equivalent that you can buy on-line from a supplier that supports this forum. I think it's called Arkray, but one of the more experienced users will point you in the right direction. Per the directions here, I test, then feed the cat (at least 2 TBSP of food), then give her insulin (shoot).

Hang in there. It really does get easier, and it happens more quickly than you think.
 
Sorry to hear your kitty is so sick, I hope he gets to feeling better soon.

You're on a great track with the food, bravo for that.

I agree with Lisa, the relion glucometer and strips are definitely the most affordable option. If you don't have a walmart near you, yes the Arkray brand from ADW is the same (Arkray produces the relions for walmart) The glucometer unit itself is actually a little cheaper from ADW than walmart, and the strips are about the same (just can't run out and grab them last minute if ordering online :D)
 
If your cat is in DKA, you may need to be able to give subcutaneous fluids to help him flush those out. You do need to give insulin injections to control the glucose, and take blood glucose tests to make sure it was safe to give insulin.. Otherwise, the hospital is the safest place for him.
 
If your cat "loves a good lap," I think you should be fine.

I prefer to do my cat's blood draw for her test when she is in my lap. I have the best control there, and I can see the best (i really need bifocals. . . ).

the shots themselves are easy peasy. Like, they are ridiculously easy. Get the shorter needles, 8mm, with 1/2 unit markings. At Walmart they are something like $12.50 for 100. Shazaam!

the insulin can be pricey on the front end, but ends up being much cheaper than the strips, at least in my experience. If you can find somebody to sell you a single "pen" of Lantus or Levemir that is best.

There's a link somehwere on here (or maybe on Facebook) for a Canadian pharmacy that sells 5 Lantus pens for $133 and has fast shipping. So for $150, you're looking at maybe 2 years worth of insulin. You may be able to find somebody to split it with (like me! )

I just switched to a Relion Prime meter, which has much cheaper strips but is a little fussier. I reccomend you start with the Micro or Confirm (I liked the Confirm b/c it was big) and then after you really get the hang of it you can switch to the Prime, if you need to. (I test obsessively. Maybe too much. I should probably go test now :shock:

Good luck. Don't freak out.You're in the right place. These folks are AMAZING.
 
Let me start with some basics:


There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: You have the food thing covered - raw and FF classics is perfect to feed.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about home testing. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. The top three we recommend are Lantus, Levimer or Prozinc all are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.

From what I've been reading and seeing lately - it seems that cats that use Levimer are doing really well on it, better than cats on Lantus.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

Now, you can do this on a budget. Here is a shopping to get started:

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro*
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound (can use generic brand)
5. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken, even rotisserie chicken, deli chicken, canned tuna will work
9. Karo syrup/table syrup, honey or any sugar product like jam, jelly, etc. if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast -
10. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast


• We suggest the Relion meter and matching strips from Walmart, as they are the most economically priced meter and strips. That is assuming you have a Walmart nearby. If not, then you can purchase any human glucometer except for Freestyle with butterfly strips or any meter with TRU in the name. People have had issues in the past with these meters and best to start off with something else.


Here is a link to questions that you can ask any vet:

http://www.indulgedfurries.com/petdiabe ... stions.htm
 
Hi and thank you for all the great info!

Sam is back at the vet this morning for more fluids and insulin. When I pick him up, they will train me to give insulin shots. Doc isn't concerned about monitoring glucose levels, yet, because he's so high. Not sure how I feel about that. Maybe okay until Tuesday, less stress all around?

I will be bringing him home again around noon. I will be using NPH over the weekend. I know you can't use a long-acting insulin while he is DKA.

I force fed him a little last night and this morning. Gerber baby meat Ham and water to syringe consistency. He looked bad this morning until I fed him, then he was pretty angry. We were happy about that, because he's usually a little angry about something. And he was crabby on the way to the vet. (crabby + Sam = good!) Any idea about how often to feed over the next couple of days?

Doc wants me to feed him the LD diet as he has some liver involvement. His bilirubin is really high. Doc is surprised he doesn't look anywhere near as jaundiced as his labs indicate. I'm not a fan of vet diets, and LD looks pretty carby. I would prefer to stick with the baby food. Thoughts?

I have some serious Walmart issues (sorry.), so I am leaning towards one of the Bayer monitors. The Contour, Contour Next, Contour Next EZ. Thoughts?

I am feeling a little more comfortable about BG testing. He doesn't mind having his ears touched.

I have the supply list, so I will begin to gather everything. While money is a consideration at this time, I am willing to spend a bit if it will make a difference.

And I must read, read, read.

Thank you all so very much!

Caryn
 
If you want to avoid Walmart, then I would try to Arkray meter from ADW on the shop link. The micro is really easy to use and doesn't need much blood.
 
When I pick him up, they will train me to give insulin shots.
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Good

Doc isn't concerned about monitoring glucose levels, yet, because he's so high. Not sure how I feel about that. Maybe okay until Tuesday, less stress all around?
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This makes no sense! He could be high today and drop like a rock tomorrow! If you are not testing you will never know and could go from DKA to a hypo just like that. Get them to teach you to test, while you learn how to inject insulin. It's not a big deal and don't let them scare you away from learning.

If they won't teach you, we can teach you online how to do it.

Just remember - no human injects insulin without testing. It's no different for a cat! You need to know if it's safe to give or not to give. The only way to do that is by testing.

I will be using NPH over the weekend. I know you can't use a long-acting insulin while he is DKA.
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Where did you get this information? That is not accurate. You can always and should always use the long acting insulin. What you may also need to do is add a short acting insulin like N or R too. Again, this is why testing is critical - especially with a DKA situation. There are others here who know how to administer the long acting insulin with the short acting and can advise on the specifics.


I force fed him a little last night and this morning. Gerber baby meat Ham and water to syringe consistency. He looked bad this morning until I fed him, then he was pretty angry. We were happy about that, because he's usually a little angry about something. And he was crabby on the way to the vet. (crabby + Sam = good!) Any idea about how often to feed over the next couple of days?
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Feed him as much as he can eat. Make sure there is plenty of water in the food. Is the vet going to teach you how to administer fluids too? It will be much easier and cheaper for you if you can get the fluids and administer it at home - subcutaneously.

Get a scrip from the vet for one case of the fluids - go to the human pharmacy and order it. (It's much cheaper to order a case - 12 bags) and have them available, then to order just one bag at a time. However, there may be a wait for the fluids - lactated ringers to be exact - so also purchase a bag and set up from the vet. I can provide you with where to purchase the line and syringes from online very cheaply.


Doc wants me to feed him the LD diet as he has some liver involvement. His bilirubin is really high. Doc is surprised he doesn't look anywhere near as jaundiced as his labs indicate. I'm not a fan of vet diets, and LD looks pretty carby. I would prefer to stick with the baby food. Thoughts?
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I am not a fan of prescription diets either. here read this interesting article on the subject. However, baby food is not a complete diet for a cat and he needs the nutrients that are available in cat food - if he eats the baby food, maybe you can start mixing in the low carb pate style canned food you normally feed. The quicker you get him eating his own food the better.


I have some serious Walmart issues (sorry.), so I am leaning towards one of the Bayer monitors. The Contour, Contour Next, Contour Next EZ. Thoughts?
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I use the bayer contour and love it. It's a bit more pricey than relion but it works great! Just use the regular contour, you don't need the next or ez versions. Simple is best the regular contour is simple, easy to use.


Caryn[/quote]
 

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I just wanted to add that my Tasha, who isn't generally a fan of being handled a whole lot, has been a pleasant surprise when it comes to testing her BG. She's been very patient with us and very tolerant of the repeated testing sessions. I'm sure the freeze-dried treats have nothing to do with it...

Best wishes to Sam - sounds like you're well on your way with him. I have some serious Walmart issues as well but sucked it up just for the meter and strips. I felt like such a sell-out when I went back to buy more strips though, I may end up switching meters at some point. I detest them so much. (Edited to be clear: I detest the company. I haven't had any issues with the meter.)
 
We are back from the vet.

Sam had more IV fluid and sub-q fluid. I was not given any fluid for at-home admin. (I didn't see the info posted here until I got back.) He goes back Tuesday morning. He is cranky now. He seems to have a little more energy. They gave him 20ml of the LD diet while he was there. Doc showed me how to give an insulin injection. 2 units of NPH. Sam's BG was 140 when he got to the vet this morning. It was around 200 when I picked him up.

"This makes no sense! He could be high today and drop like a rock tomorrow! If you are not testing you will never know and could go from DKA to a hypo just like that. Get them to teach you to test, while you learn how to inject insulin. It's not a big deal and don't let them scare you away from learning."

I know, it's crazy. I don't agree with the not testing. Especially since his sugar dropped so dramatically overnight. He says a prominent diabetes specialist vet says urine is the best way, he went to a seminar where she spoke on this. I don't care, I plan to test. It doesn't make sense to not test BG. Besides, checking urine would be incredibly difficult. I have 6 cats and I rarely see any of them in the box.

"This makes no sense! He could be high today and drop like a rock tomorrow! If you are not testing you will never know and could go from DKA to a hypo just like that. Get them to teach you to test, while you learn how to inject insulin. It's not a big deal and don't let them scare you away from learning."

Sorry, I saw it somewhere. I'm not sure where? Maybe the Lantus site? At any rate, it is NPH until Tuesday, when I will have to duke it out with him just to get ProZinc. He was talking about using a cat-specific insulin. I plan to test anyway. Just silly not to.

"I am not a fan of prescription diets either. here read this interesting article on the subject. However, baby food is not a complete diet for a cat and he needs the nutrients that are available in cat food - if he eats the baby food, maybe you can start mixing in the low carb pate style canned food you normally feed. The quicker you get him eating his own food the better."

He wants the vet diet because of the cat nutrients: taurine, b-vitamins and L-arginine and lysine. I have taurine and B-50 complex because I mix it into the raw. I am out of lysine right now, but expecting it on Tuesday. L-arginine I might be able to find locally. I was using baby food for the taste, it's very low carb and good protein. I got an oral syringe from him with a larger opening then the one I have. Should be easier to syringe Sam's normal diet with it. Should I just try to feed him every couple of hours?

Thanks again.

Caryn
 
He wasn't talking to feline diabetes expert Dr Janice Rand of the University of Queensland,
though. She and Kirsten Roomp worked with the Diabetes Katzen forum members to develop the Tight Regulation protocol initially.

Urine testing only tells you what happened, on average, since the previous void. While that can be useful in terms of glucose spilling or ketones, it cannot show you how low the cat is going and that is when it can be dangerous - glucose that is too low can be fatal and urine testing can't show you that. Using a human glucometer, you want the lowest glucose level to remain above 50 mg/dL. For an Alpha Trak.com that number should be above 65 - 70 mg/dL (they run from 30 to 40% higher than a human glucometer).
 
I agree with you that home testing BG is necessary.
ProZinc is a good insulin.
The commercial canned food that are low-carb are complete and many are "thin" enough to use for syringe feeding. What I do is remove the plunger from a syringe-feeding syringe and with a small spoon, spoon the food into the syringe and the replace the plunger and syringe feed.
 
Fancy Feast Classics has all the nutrients needed ans so does your homemade raw since you have the stuff to put in it. As for the Vet diet, it will actually be worse for him because of the carbs in it. How ofton does your vet have you giving the NPH? I saw 2 units as the dosage, NPH is def not the insulin of choice, R or N would be better esp since your vet wouldnt let you start with Lantus or PZI over the weekend. You will need to feed him every few hours, but mix the fancy feast classics with the baby food if you insist on giving the baby food, since the baby food def doesnt have the nutrients in it for a kitty. I hope all goes well. Please keep honey and some high carb gravy foods around (fancy feast grilled or chunky types) just incase he goes Hypo (there is a couple of places on here that have the exact instructions for this.
 
Actually ...

Humulin/Novolin R (for regular) insulin lasts roughly 4 hours in the cat. This insulin should not be used for routine insulin control at home. It is helpful when certain high dose conditions are present which require booster insulin support or when erratic glucose levels due to other medical conditions need an occasional boost because an overall increase in long-acting insulin is risky.

Humulin/Novolin N (or NPH, for neutral protein Hagedorn) lasts about 6 -8 hours in the cat. Effective control may require dosing about every 8 hours. Feeding before shooting is a must as it hits hard and drops the glucose fast.
 
N and NPH are the same insulin, Some manufactures call it N and other NPH

Sandy96 said:
Fancy Feast Classics has all the nutrients needed ans so does your homemade raw since you have the stuff to put in it. As for the Vet diet, it will actually be worse for him because of the carbs in it. How ofton does your vet have you giving the NPH? I saw 2 units as the dosage, NPH is def not the insulin of choice, R or N would be better esp since your vet wouldnt let you start with Lantus or PZI over the weekend. You will need to feed him every few hours, but mix the fancy feast classics with the baby food if you insist on giving the baby food, since the baby food def doesnt have the nutrients in it for a kitty. I hope all goes well. Please keep honey and some high carb gravy foods around (fancy feast grilled or chunky types) just incase he goes Hypo (there is a couple of places on here that have the exact instructions for this.
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I had that wrong, sorry for misinformation. With the types of insulin, I used to be a nurse and i do remember that it had to do with how the doc worded the order and the mfg of the insulin as to what type we used.
 
I just looked at the vial, the insulin is Humulin N. (vet kept saying NPH) I gave him 2units at the vet, maybe 11:30am. I am supposed to give him another 2 units between 8-9pm.

I just mixed a half jar of the baby food (with some added taurine, b vitamins and water) with 1 can FF Turkey and Giblets Classic. I used my stick blender to make it easier to syringe. I got about 20ml into him. He was less than thrilled with the experience. When should I try again?

Should I go get some L-arginine L-carnitine? (they are in the LD) I have lysine coming Tuesday, should I go and get some now?

I picked up a pack of ketostix at the pharmacy. I can smell the ketones on his breath.

Meter and strips should be here Tuesday. Need to check the price of ProZinc at the pharmacy.

Caryn
 
Prozinc is not available at most human pharmacies. Exception: CostCo may carry it and you do not have to be a member to use the pharmacy.

I'd go with feeding attempts every hour or until a normal amount has been consumed, whichever comes first.

See about getting some subcutabeous fluids to give. These will help flush the ketones out.

There are some electrolyte alterations which happen with DKA; ask about potassium or other mineral supplementation.
 
BJM said:
Prozinc is not available at most human pharmacies. Exception: CostCo may carry it and you do not have to be a member to use the pharmacy.

I'd go with feeding attempts every hour or until a normal amount has been consumed, whichever comes first.

See about getting some subcutabeous fluids to give. These will help flush the ketones out.

There are some electrolyte alterations which happen with DKA; ask about potassium or other mineral supplementation.
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I will check with CostCo (we got one a little over a year ago).

I will try food again in a few. He just peed and pooped (loose, but not liquid.) on the floor. I think I need to take him to the box regularly, too. Poor guy. And he isn't even attempting to groom himself, he is normally very fastidious.

I'm not sure about sub-q fluids, unless I go to the emergency vet. Can I add anything to the food/supp/water mix I'm giving him? A pinch of grey celtic salt? Lots of trace minerals in that stuff.

Thank you.

caryn
 
Sandy96 said:
Have you been able to test his urine yet for Ketones?
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Well, when he just went on the carpet, I tried to use a strip to soak up a bit. I doubt I got an accurate reading, but it looked "moderate".
I will try again when I bring him to the box later.

Going to try and get some food in him again.

Caryn
 
Moderate Ketones arent anything to play with even if you think its an inaccurate. However I would also suggest you check with BJM and Larry as well and see what they have to say since I havent been active on the board since my Sandy passed away.
 
If the vet did not give you fluids to use subcutaneously, then you need to syringe a lot of water into him. You need to flush the ketones out and normal IV fluids is how to do it. Is the vet office still open? Call and tell him to set you up with a bag and go get it. Pay the price, get the scrip and then order fluids from the pharmacy.

Otherwise, you could end up with DKA all over again an expensive ER visit.
 
Using prozinc is fine. It's an animal based insulinand many people have used it with good results. It's also more forgiving an insulin than Lantus or Levimer. I only suggested Levimer as a choice since you haven't started any yet and if choosing between Lantus or Levimer....but prozinc is fine choice too.

........Corrected my error in what prozinc actually is......
 
ProZinc is NOT animal bases unless you classify the bacteria used to make the human insulin as animals. When they say "recombinant human insulin" that means the bacteria make the human insulin

What is PROZINC Insulin?
PROZINC insulin is an aqueous protamine zinc suspension of recombinant human insulin that is used to reduce hyperglycemia (high blood glucose or high blood sugar) in cats with diabetes mellitus.

From:
https://www.prozinc.us/prozinc.html

Hillary & Maui (GA) said:
Using prozinc is fine. It's an animal based insulin and many people have used it with good results. It's also more forgiving an insulin than Lantus or Levimer. I only suggested Levimer as a choice since you haven't started any yet and if choosing between Lantus or Levimer....but prozinc is fine choice too.
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Hillary & Maui (GA) said:
If the vet did not give you fluids to use subcutaneously, then you need to syringe a lot of water into him. You need to flush the ketones out and normal IV fluids is how to do it. Is the vet office still open? Call and tell him to set you up with a bag and go get it. Pay the price, get the scrip and then order fluids from the pharmacy.

Otherwise, you could end up with DKA all over again an expensive ER visit.
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The vet closes at noon. They did give him IV and sub-q fluids this morning. I am trying to feed him every 1-2 hours (about 20ml of a slurry of water/FF Classic Turkey and Giblets/Gerber meat baby food [I will use some raw next time I mix]/supplements taurine, b-vitamins, l-carnitine). He gets pretty upset when I feed him, and he fought harder the second time I fed him today. I have to watch his stress, too, he is pretty high-strung normally, all these vet visits/force feeding is really traumatic for him.
Hopefully that won't happen.

Caryn
 
Got Sam in the litterbox with ketostix. Result = none/trace. So, good?

Going to feed him again. He really hates the force feeding, but he still has no appetite.

I am supposed to give him 2 units tonight, I will give it after I after I feed him.

What would be the longest I could go tonight without feeding do you think? I'd like to sleep. :smile:

The CostCo is ordering the ProZinc. I should be able to get the script from the vet on Tuesday. BG meter also coming Tuesday.

Thank you.

Caryn
 
Nap/sleep in multiples of 45 minutes, which is the average sleep cycle in humans. It may be easier to wake up at 45 minutes, 1 hr 30 minutes, 2 hr 15 min, or 3 hr as the sleep cycle is nearly over. Trying to wake up in the middle of a sleep cycle, from the deepest level of sleep, can be quite difficult.
 
did the vet provide you with any appetite stimulants?

Is he nauseous at all? - you know licking his lips, looking at the food and turning head away? If he is, you could give him some pepcid (make sure it's the plain pepcid - fatomadine) and give him 1/4 tablet of a 10 mg tablet - so that would be 2.5 mg.
 
Sam made it thru the night. He appears a bit more alert today.

Morning urine dip showed no/trace ketones. I am still learning about reading those strips. I can still smell a slight ketone odor on his breath.

Force fed 5cc, then he ate about 2 t on his own around 8:15am. Force fed 20cc about 9:15am. He didn't fight the feeding as much as yesterday. Fed FF T&G with a bit of parmesan and supplemental taurine, L-carnitine, trace minerals from dissolved sea salt and water. I did not include the B-complex this morning, I don't think he likes the smell/taste. I will add some to a later feeding.

Gave 2 units Humulin N at 9:30am. He is tolerating the shots just fine.

I plan to continue to offer/feed every 2 hours. I think more frequent attempts will stress him enough to be more harmful. I think the overnight rest was also helpful, no poking and prodding for a while. He is very high-strung at the best of times, so this seems to be prudent for now.

The vet gave him Cerenia and a B-vitamin injection yesterday. I think I will try the pepcid, his tummy is very likely still unsettled.

Thank You!
 
Are you checking Sam's glucose levels at all during all of this? If not are you watching him for signs of hypoglycemia? Please check out this page viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887 for the signs of Hypoglycemia as I believe Hilary and Maui said earlier he could drop like a rock and if you arent checking his glucose then you might miss it unless you know the symptoms to watch for.
 
Sandy96 said:
Are you checking Sam's glucose levels at all during all of this? If not are you watching him for signs of hypoglycemia? Please check out this page viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887 for the signs of Hypoglycemia as I believe Hilary and Maui said earlier he could drop like a rock and if you arent checking his glucose then you might miss it unless you know the symptoms to watch for.
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I am not monitoring, yet. My meter will be here Tuesday. My vet seems to think that urine is the way to monitor. I DO NOT agree, and will begin as soon as I can.

Hilary and Maui said to feed before injecting, and that is what I am doing. I have read and printed the hypo guide sheet.

Keto stix continue to be negative/trace. I assume that is what we want? What does it mean if stix are neg, but I can smell a ketone odor?

I am waking Sam every 2 hours for food and potty. He appears to be in better shape than when we took him to the vet Friday morning. He is sleeping a lot, but he is ill and traumatized, and being woken every 2 hours, so I don't think that is a surprise.

We are doing the best that we can. I wish Sam and his medical issues were all I had on my plate. I am trying not to freak out about this, it won't do anyone any good. he goes back to the vet Tuesday morning.
 
To check urine glucose you need ketodiastix. Does his breath smell of acetone or fruit? Neg ketones on the stick shouldnt leave a ketone smell on his breath, but then again ecid (every cat is different) the trace is prob what you are smelling instead of it being a neg result. Sounds like you guys are doing ok so far. One question why are you waiting till tues to get the glucometer, am sorry to be curious since they are available at any pharmacy or Target/Wal-Mart (i know you dont like wm just using that as an example) WalGreens etc every day of the week including Sat and Sundays and the holiday for most places without having to order them online? If you have answered this I am sorry for asking again.
 
Sandy96 said:
To check urine glucose you need ketodiastix. Does his breath smell of acetone or fruit? Neg ketones on the stick shouldnt leave a ketone smell on his breath, but then again ecid (every cat is different) the trace is prob what you are smelling instead of it being a neg result. Sounds like you guys are doing ok so far. One question why are you waiting till tues to get the glucometer, am sorry to be curious since they are available at any pharmacy or Target/Wal-Mart (i know you dont like wm just using that as an example) WalGreens etc every day of the week including Sat and Sundays and the holiday for most places without having to order them online? If you have answered this I am sorry for asking again.
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Ketone smell is faint and diminishing. Smells like nail polish remover.

Using generic ketodiastix from CVS. The difference between the negative and trace color on the stick chart is minimal, so it's a little hard to tell.

His eyes are less yellow today.

Meter on Tuesday is cost. It's coming from Amazon. Way less expensive. Meter, strips and lancets for half of the cost of the strips alone at CVS (Kmart didn't have anything I was interested in. Target is the next town over, so is Walgreens. We are rural, so next town is a shlep, and I didn't want to leave him that long.). We've dropped close to $500 at the vet so far, and my husband has been out of work for a year. (And that is going to get harder before it gets easier. I've been looking, too, but it's been difficult. Who wants to hire a 53 year old SAHM, who has parents 200 miles away who need regular attention, too? And that's among other things. It's been are really bad year.)

So Sam is just another course on my rather iffy buffet these days. We're trying.
 
It's ok Tuesday will be here before you know it.

That nail polish smell is the ketones on the breath and a good indicator that there are still some ketones present. Keep giving fluids to flush them out and testing, you don't want it going above trace.

When the vet reopens - be sure to get a prescription to purchase a case of fluids. Have them on hand (just in case).

Here is where you can order the needles and lines very inexpensively.



this is for the lines -- I typically use two bags of fluids per line

http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/i ... ee-72.html


This is for the needles -- because they are inexpensive and dull after each use - I typically change needles after each use of fluids.

http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/t ... f-100.html

By having this available, you will see time and money and have the ability to give the fluids yourself, which will flush the ketones out faster than syringing water in him.
 
Hillary & Maui (GA) said:
It's ok Tuesday will be here before you know it.

That nail polish smell is the ketones on the breath and a good indicator that there are still some ketones present. Keep giving fluids to flush them out and testing, you don't want it going above trace.

When the vet reopens - be sure to get a prescription to purchase a case of fluids. Have them on hand (just in case).

Here is where you can order the needles and lines very inexpensively.

this is for the lines -- I typically use two bags of fluids per line

http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/i ... ee-72.html


This is for the needles -- because they are inexpensive and dull after each use - I typically change needles after each use of fluids.

http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/t ... f-100.html

By having this available, you will see time and money and have the ability to give the fluids yourself, which will flush the ketones out faster than syringing water in him.
Click to expand...


Thank you! I was not entirely sure about the smell vs test results. That is helpful information. I know I have a lot to learn. Always most difficult when in the thick of it.

I was wondering if the needles would be Terumo brand, the nurses I worked with in home care liked them best. Do people commonly reuse needles on pets? Are there videos on how-to give sub-q fluids?

When you say "fluids", can you be more specific? Type? Volume? That will help me know what to ask the vet for. (he's a nice man, but...sometimes you have to know what you want.) It makes sense to have some available, it sounds like even the best managed cases can throw a curve occasionally.

I really wish Sam would eat on his own. He is so unhappy being force fed, but he is also fighting a little bit more each time I do it. Only about 36 hours until vet visit. :)

Thank you all.
 
Only 2 of 3 kinds of ketones have an odor, and the scent may be fruity or like nail polish remover.
 
A new morning.

Sam definitely did not have any ketones in his urine. His urine is no longer bright yellow.

He is perkier, although still not eating on his own. He did come in the kitchen when I was feeding the hoard, but did not eat. He seemed to want to, but couldn't quite bring himself to. I gave him Pepcid about 10 minutes before I fed everyone. I am still feeding every 2-3 hours.

His coat looks better. He is doing some grooming, but not a lot. I wipe him down with a warm wash cloth after food. He is still sleeping a lot.

The insulin I am giving him, Humulin N, is a vial from the vet. It is very old (expired 4/2013. Doctors are so weird with stuff like that. The pharmacy tech in me shudders.).
I am thinking that this is not super potent, so what might that mean for Sam when I get a vial of ProZinc (Hopefully, tomorrow. Costco ordered, but you can't be sure if something will come in the order.)?

Thank you.
 
You may need to use a reduced dose of the ProZinc when you switch - maybe 1/2 to 3/4 or the Humulin dose.
 
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