Insulin Resistant?

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Michele1980

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone,
I haven't been on this board for about 7 months, but I need some help! My cat, Mister, was diagnosed with diabetes about 7 months ago. He was on 2 units of Prozinc, twice a day, for about 3 or 4 weeks and the diabetes "went away". He was fine for 6 whole months with no inuslin, and then all of a sudden a few weeks ago, it came back. He was hospitalized for 2 days and given fluids. We started him off on the same 2 units, twice a day insulin schedule. Unfortunately, that didn't work, and in the past couple weeks, I have taken him into the vet at least once or twice a week to have his blood sugar checked and we have steadily been raising the insulin dosage. I just got back from the vet's office, and we are now raising him to 5 units, twice per day. He is a very skinny cat...only weighs about 9.2 pounds...not the typical overweight diabetic cat. He is half Siamese, so I think that has something to do with it. Anyway...I am not very optimistic that the 5 units twice a day is going to work. Has anyone seen this happen before? It worked like a charm the first time and now doesn't seem to be working at all. I am very worried :( My vet said there are other types of insulin that we can try, but Prozinc is the one that is used the most, and this isn't working. What if the other types don't work? Am I going to have to put him down? He is 17.5 years old, but you would never know it.
 
I should also add that the first time when he was diagnosed, he also had pancreatitis. We were hoping that maybe that is all he had (no diabetes) and maybe that was why it "went away". I was hoping again that would be the case this time, but everything has been completely different so I am losing hope.
 
The very best thing you can do to help your kitty is to start hometesting today. Diabetics is a disease managed at home, just like human diabetics do. We test our cats blood glucose level before each shot to make sure it is safe to give insulin, and midcycle to see how the insulin is working. We feel our numbers are more accurate than those from the vet since most cats are stressed at the vet and stress raises bg levels.

Yes, there are other insulins, but the information you will need with any of them are blood glucose numbers daily. If you will let us teach you how to test at home, you will be able to see fairly quickly how the insulin is working and then you can decide about a change.

What does he eat? We are advocates of a wet low carb diet which can make a huge difference in glucose numbers. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org
 
My vet said that she is going to show me on Monday when I take him back in, how to test the blood. So I will start doing that.
He is eating Hills W/D canned food. That is what he ate last time too, and the diabetes "went away" so the vet has told me to stick with taht.
 
As another poster found out they changed to formula and went from 3% carbs to 10% carbs and her cat is now back on insulin because of it.

Have you tried regular canned food? We have several lists on the carb content and you can choose the best one for him.

I, too, advocate for home-testing- you can watch the videos on u-tube about it. I would suggest getting a human meter from the pharmacy- stay away from the generic 'Tru/e' meters and the Freestyle lite meters with the butterfly strips as they are not good for cats.
 
I changed his diet the first time when he was diagnosed from regular wet food (Friskies I think) to the Hills W/D and it seemed to make him better. I have not taken him off it in the 7 months since he was initially diagnosed, so that doesn't seem to be a contributing factor.
I am definitely a little intimidated by the home testing but I am willing to do whatever it takes to make him better!
 
That is great your vet will show you how to hometest. It is a vital tool! Vets sometimes like the pet glucometers; we find that human meters work just as well and are a lot less expensive, for meter and for strips.

Hills WD is 36% carbs; we stay under 8-10%. Here is the page with the carb levels: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html We find that supermarket and pet specialty foods have better quality ingredients and cost less money. Compare WD with Wellness for example:

WD: Water, Egg Product, Whole Grain Corn, Chicken, Cracked Pearled Barley, Pork Liver, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Iodized Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, L-Tryptophan, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), L-Carnitine, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite. There is corn before there is any meat listed!

Fancy Feast Classic (which lots of us feed although there are other premium foods. Regardless, the first 4 ingredients are meat: Beef, meat broth, liver, fish, meat by-products, artificial and natural flavors, guar gum, potassium chloride, calcium phosphate, salt, magnesium sulfate, taurine, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, niacin, sodium nitrite (to promote color retention), manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, biotin, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, potassium iodide


It may be harder this time; it often is if cats go out of remission. If he were mine, I would want to give him the best possible chance and feed a low carb food.
 
Even the canned food is that high? Yikes! I thought it was just the dry food.

Sorry about that :oops: .
 
Why don't vets tell you this? I don't understand. Are they just not educated about it? It makes me mad that they are prescribing food that is not the best for diabetes. I also just found that there is a feline diabetes specialist in my area, I am thinking about going to see her. This is getting VERY costly though....
 
Often they get only one feline diabetes workshop in vet school. Remember, they have to treat everything from snakes to hamsters. And their nutrition classes are often "taught" by the pet food companies like Purina. We have no problem with vets who are not completely up to date on feline diabetes, but we hope they are willing to learn about wet low carb foods and hometesting and how insulins work. (Even if some of the info comes from the internet. :mrgreen: )

This is not an expensive disease. Get a glucometer from Walmart (ReliOn is the least expensive as are the strips), some 25-27 guage lancets and start working on getting a blood sample tonight. That will give you some idea of how he is doing, before you go to the vet. The food does not have to be expensive - as I said, many of us feed Fancy Feast. And you already have a good, mild, long lasting insulin.
 
Vets are like people- most of us obey what someone tells them without thinking about it. If the large pet food manufacturing company says "Sell this food it has been specially formulated for cats/dogs with certain needs and, oh, by the way, for every bag you sell you will get money for it" the vet is going to think "Oh! Money to sell food for animals! How neat is that?"

They don't bother to ask for research or think about what pets really eat in the wild. I've never seen a national geographic show on the Serengeti lions stalking the wheat grass- usually it is hanging around the watering hole looking for some weak/young/injured ANIMAL. They trust that the large pet food manufacturing company has done it's due diligence in finding the best food for your pet and are willing to sell you the food.

Many of the manufacturers sell food via vet offices and over the counter- it has the same ingredients in it. All you are paying for is the label and a commission for your vet. if you have an open bag take it back to the vet and say your cats refused to eat it and they should refund your money or give you credit for it (unless it is nearly empty and then it might look suspicious :lol: ).
 
Correction - 26% carbs. I read the wrong column. But considering most diabetic cats here are getting in the 5-8% range, it is way too high. And doesn't have very good ingredients.

You can work with your vet. Go armed with information about wet low carb foods from that vet website: www.catinfo.org If he is willing to teach you how to hometest, that is a good thing to give him credit for. You wouldn't believe how many people come here and their vet refuses to consider hometesting. We figure each vet we convert to testing and a better diet may help save a couple more cats down the road. :-D
 
I appreciate all of the advice. My question was mainly more focused on the insulin itself, and why it doesn't seem to be working at all this time around. 5 units of Prozinc twice a day for a 9 pound cat seems like a very large amount, especially given that 2 units twice a day worked last time. Thoughts? And is it hopeless or could another type of insulin work better?
 
Too much insulin can spike the levels just as much as too little. They are basically dropping like a stone and then rising to the roof (we call a bounce)- which, if you are not testing or doing at-home curves, you wouldn't know. A fructosimine test will only tell you the average over two weeks not what he was at any particular point. And vet office curves are stressful for the cats and raise the numbers so dosing should NEVER be done on a test at the vet.

I would suggest dropping back down, home testing frequently, and changing the food to low carb- all of which could take about a month to do if done slow enough to not upset the apple cart of Mister too much with the change. And get some keto stix from the pharmacy- Around $7 for 50 and check his pee for ketones when you lower the insulin dose. At least once a day until his BG levels are good.

Does this help?

I've got to go to school now, I'll look for you later.
 
I agree with Heather that there is a possibility that he is getting too much insulin and experiencing rebound:
Rebound But I would get some numbers before I considered restarting at a lower dose.

Once you get some numbers, you should have a clearer idea about whether it could be rebound or the food. Both may be part of the issue.

IMHO, another insulin is premature. Until you have numbers and can really see what is happening, cycle to cycle, you can't be sure the insulin isn't working.
 
As of now, I literally know nothing about home testing so I am not comfortable with lowering the dose until my vet tells me to do so. However I am going back on Monday and she mentioned that she would show me how to do it
 
I don't see how it could be possible that the food has anything to do with it as he has been on the same food for 7 months and went into remission
 
My baby died on Sunday :(
Still very unsure as to exactly what was wrong with him.
Got switched to Humulin N from Prozinc and that also wasn't working. Then he stopped eating. I took him for an ultrasound which showed that one of his kidneys was enlarged and there were pollops on his pancreas. The radiologist (?) did not think it was cancer. My vet gave me some liquid pain meds, an appetite stimulant, and some antibiotics for his potential UTI. This was all on Friday. The appetite stimulant did not work- he wouldn't eat. By Saturday evening he could barely walk and on Sunday morning he could not even pick up his head. We tried giving him water through a syringe but he wouldn't even swallow :(
I wish I knew what had been wrong with him. My vet thinks it was cancer but I am wondering if it was pancreatitis. It makes me sad that I couldn't save his life but I literally did EVERYTHING I could. I miss him so much :(
 
Thank you. :(
He was VERY loved and I will miss him forever.
Just wish I had some closure and knew what was wrong with him
 
Michelle, I wish i had words to make your hurt less. Your baby will be with you forever. Know he is close and you have an angel with you always.
so many hugs from us to you
mary and oliver
 
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