I have a 14 yr old cat, started with Humulin and now LANTUS, this has been going on for months and am still seeing wild 150-200 pt swings in a 24 hr period--slower, less precipitous swings with LANTUS but still am losing the battle, hind leg neuropathy setting in.....any suggestions what to try next?
Insulin not working
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MommaOfMuse
Very Active Member
Could use a little more info, like what dosage and what are you feeding?
Mel
Mel
Are you keeping a log of all your blood readings? It sounds like you're hometesting. Swinging numbers are usually indicative of too much insulin.
If you do some reading on this board, you'll find out that the good news is that glucose levels usually dip quite a bit on their own when you start to feel them low-carb canned food. Although I'm sure one of the experts will give you detailed info, I'd advise you to change up all of your cats to low-carb food as quickly as possible. Sometimes it's easier to do it gradually over time. The glucose is likely to drop a bit as a result of that...
As far as the insulin, you're using a great insulin that works really well. 4 units is A LOT though. And when your cat is getting too much insulin, they are always going to swing a lot through the cycle.
Don't worry - you've come to the right place. THe ladies & gents here know what they're doing and I'm certain you'll be able to regulate your cat and make him healthy again...
Would you feel comfortable with starting to lower the dose at the next cycle?
If you do some reading on this board, you'll find out that the good news is that glucose levels usually dip quite a bit on their own when you start to feel them low-carb canned food. Although I'm sure one of the experts will give you detailed info, I'd advise you to change up all of your cats to low-carb food as quickly as possible. Sometimes it's easier to do it gradually over time. The glucose is likely to drop a bit as a result of that...
As far as the insulin, you're using a great insulin that works really well. 4 units is A LOT though. And when your cat is getting too much insulin, they are always going to swing a lot through the cycle.
Don't worry - you've come to the right place. THe ladies & gents here know what they're doing and I'm certain you'll be able to regulate your cat and make him healthy again...
Would you feel comfortable with starting to lower the dose at the next cycle?
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
That may be your problem. Science diet is about 30% carbs - like human diabetics eating donuts. We feed 8-10% carbs.
It would be healthiest for all your kitties to eat wet lo carb. Check out this resource by a vet:
http://Www.catinfo.org
It would be healthiest for all your kitties to eat wet lo carb. Check out this resource by a vet:
http://Www.catinfo.org
Sue and Oliver (GA)
Very Active Member
BUT, don't change the diet before you are confident hometesting. When we switched Oliver from Science Diet (yes, we fed it too) to wet, his blood glucose numbers came down 100 points overnight.
MommaOfMuse
Very Active Member
Hi again, see you got a few other cats, so do I, in fact 10 of them! Everybody here eats exactly what my diabetic eats, just good old regular pate flavors of Friskies or 9-lives. I use the ones off this list http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.htmlthat are under 8% carbs, and my diabetic went into remission on this diet and a few weeks on Lantus. If you are concerned with the cost of switching everyone at your place I can tell you with our hoard it doesn't cost us much more than feeding them the better (Science Diet) dry food. And even my non-diabetics have been benefited from the diet change. 4u is way high, and while there are some cats that need that much but in this case it sounds like your cat is in constant rebound from too much insulin.
Mel
Mel
I just typed out a long message and somehow failed to post it, let me see if this one works.....
I've been hometesting for 120 days and keeping records, at each successive dosage level of lantus his numbers spent some time in the upper 200's but then rebounded to 300 to high 400's range. I'd be willing to lower the dosage but his numbers were about as bad at 2.0 units and 3.0 units.
Yesterday (4.0 units) he went from 286 before noon insulin to 326 four hours post noon insulin to 414 before midnite insulin. These kinds of readings have been par for the course for both Humulin and Lantus.
I'm wondering if there's something else, some other factor at work....even Science Diet light is 30% carbs?
I've been hometesting for 120 days and keeping records, at each successive dosage level of lantus his numbers spent some time in the upper 200's but then rebounded to 300 to high 400's range. I'd be willing to lower the dosage but his numbers were about as bad at 2.0 units and 3.0 units.
Yesterday (4.0 units) he went from 286 before noon insulin to 326 four hours post noon insulin to 414 before midnite insulin. These kinds of readings have been par for the course for both Humulin and Lantus.
I'm wondering if there's something else, some other factor at work....even Science Diet light is 30% carbs?
Sounds like 2,3 and 4 units are too much for your kitty. My cat was eating a 30% dry food for most of his life and became diabetic in August. I followed the Lantus protocol here and changed his diet to <5% carb food (Merrick Beef; BG chicken, turkey or beef). He no longer needed insulin after two weeks. Not saying that is the rule, but the thing is, I learned to regulate him using the methods promoted here. I also hired Dr. Pierson to figuratively hold my hand throughout the process, but that's just me. Read her site, catinfo.org and you will glean A LOT of info!
I would love one of the experts to chime in on this and verify, but how about dropping his dose to 2 units, gradually move over to the new diet, do lots of testing and see where you are in a few days? Sometimes the experts even recommend "starting from scratch" at one unit 2x daily...
Your numbers are all over the place because he's getting too much insulin... that part is pretty clear... Hang tough and try this out...
I would love one of the experts to chime in on this and verify, but how about dropping his dose to 2 units, gradually move over to the new diet, do lots of testing and see where you are in a few days? Sometimes the experts even recommend "starting from scratch" at one unit 2x daily...
Your numbers are all over the place because he's getting too much insulin... that part is pretty clear... Hang tough and try this out...
valbecker said:
MommaOfMuse
Very Active Member
All dry is really bad for diabetics and some kitties are even more sensitive to carbs than others. We have a couple on here that if they get so much as a mouthful of dry food they will bounce up into the 400s. So I'm suspecting that is what is happening here.
I'm by far not an expert, but for my two cents, if this was my cat this is what I would do. First switch at least the diabetic, if you don't think you can switch everyone, to a low carb/high protein wet canned food or even a raw diet. Start over on the dosing at 1u bid, hold for a week while testing like crazy to see how the dose is working. Just getting rid of the dry food may drop him/her quite a bit. Get a spread sheet up and attached to your signature like the one on mine. Instructions on how to do that is in the Tech section on this board. Plug in the numbers you have, it will help us help you and save us asking the same questions 100s of times. Then with this new data, we can help you adjust the dose as needed. Also go over to the Lantus support group here, and at the very least read all the stickies there, tons of info on how Lantus works, even pop in and say hi to the folks there, they all use your insulin so can give you very specific help, but they are pretty numbers driven so they will want a spread sheet that they can look at to help you.
My guy was 485 when Dxed, now a month later, with really not much more than getting him off dry food and a very short course of shots he is well in remission. That is why I'm suspecting there are a couple of things happening here, 1) the your kitty is carbs sensitive and the dry food is causing him to go high 2) He is getting too much insulin and constantly is going into rebound, where the body tries to protect itself from the overdose of insulin by releasing more glucose causing the irratic swings. Again fwiw I would switch the diet and go to canned food below 10% carbs and drop back to either 1u or even .5u for a few cycles to see if that helps. Really at this point what is there to lose?
Mel & Max
I'm by far not an expert, but for my two cents, if this was my cat this is what I would do. First switch at least the diabetic, if you don't think you can switch everyone, to a low carb/high protein wet canned food or even a raw diet. Start over on the dosing at 1u bid, hold for a week while testing like crazy to see how the dose is working. Just getting rid of the dry food may drop him/her quite a bit. Get a spread sheet up and attached to your signature like the one on mine. Instructions on how to do that is in the Tech section on this board. Plug in the numbers you have, it will help us help you and save us asking the same questions 100s of times. Then with this new data, we can help you adjust the dose as needed. Also go over to the Lantus support group here, and at the very least read all the stickies there, tons of info on how Lantus works, even pop in and say hi to the folks there, they all use your insulin so can give you very specific help, but they are pretty numbers driven so they will want a spread sheet that they can look at to help you.
My guy was 485 when Dxed, now a month later, with really not much more than getting him off dry food and a very short course of shots he is well in remission. That is why I'm suspecting there are a couple of things happening here, 1) the your kitty is carbs sensitive and the dry food is causing him to go high 2) He is getting too much insulin and constantly is going into rebound, where the body tries to protect itself from the overdose of insulin by releasing more glucose causing the irratic swings. Again fwiw I would switch the diet and go to canned food below 10% carbs and drop back to either 1u or even .5u for a few cycles to see if that helps. Really at this point what is there to lose?
Mel & Max
Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA
Very Active Member
My cats (4) were dry food addicts, so I did transition them all gradually --
first changing from Science Diet to Blue Wilderness (18% carbs), then to EVO dry (8% carbs) and finally to Wellness canned with only some EVO dry snacks for my civilians (non-diabetics)
Low carb canned food was available through the entire transition process -- just reduced the carbs in the dry and reduced the amount of dry while increasing the canned.
I did a fairly slow transition -- about 6 months for the non-diabetics and shorter for Norton - my diabetic at the time of transition.
Norton's insulin needs cut in half when we changed his food from Science Diet to low carb canned.
first changing from Science Diet to Blue Wilderness (18% carbs), then to EVO dry (8% carbs) and finally to Wellness canned with only some EVO dry snacks for my civilians (non-diabetics)
Low carb canned food was available through the entire transition process -- just reduced the carbs in the dry and reduced the amount of dry while increasing the canned.
I did a fairly slow transition -- about 6 months for the non-diabetics and shorter for Norton - my diabetic at the time of transition.
Norton's insulin needs cut in half when we changed his food from Science Diet to low carb canned.
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