Insulin for cat

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werty4443

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I have a diabetic car that is presently on ProZinc insulin. It is expensive and not very strong. I am up to 7 units (p-40) and my car continues to display symptoms regardless. Years ago I had another diabetic cat that took regular insulin for humans from the drugstore and that worked fine for yymany ears. Now we have these special feline insulins that are 5 times more expensive and are only 20% as potent.

Anyone still using human insulin? If so what are your experiences? $140. per month for PeoZinc is not working out. My cat still drinks and urinates constantly on ProZinc. Any suggestions?
Thanks
werty4443
 
hi there and welcome.

i might as well get you started on answering some questions 'cause i know everyone is gonna ask :)

we like to make sure there aren't other contributing factors when a kitty isn't doing as well as they can be 'cause that helps to rule out insulins

can you tell us what you feed? alot of times people don't realize they can feed a lower carb food than what they are and the lower carbs kitty gets, the better their glucose numbers are, just like humans i suppose.

then, by chance do you hometest or know what that is? thru hometesting you can get a better handle on what's really going on with kitty and whether an insulin is working or not. alot of times we find that kitty is out of whack because dosing decisions are made based solely on testing done at the clinic and that can sometimes be grossly inaccurate due to vet stress, etc....

and does kitty have any other health conditions? any infections as of late? teeth ok? does kitty go outside?
 
The human insulins Lantus and Levemir work very very well for cats and when the initial cost is broken down in to months of use if the insulin is purchased in the 5 cartridge packages it can be less than $20 per month, especially for Levemir which is always good to the last drop if refrigerated.

On a dose of 1.25U twice daily a 5 pack of Levemir flexpens lasts me 15 months. Flexpens contain 300U each. Even if I spend $200 on the box of 5, that's only $13.33/month!! If ordered from Canadian pharmacy, Levemir is even cheaper!

There are quite a few medicines used off-label for cats and dogs, so switching insulins should not be a stumbling block simply because Lantus or Levemir are not FDA approved for use in cats. Your vet should be willing to prescribe a less costly insulin. If not, seek one who is. We prove every day on FDMB that FDA approval is not necessary for an insulin to work well.
 
i would chime in here but first need to hear the answers to cindy's questions. i would say unless the insulin is way expired or not be handled properly it is likely not the insulin. let us know what eles your doing.

p.s. cindy ironic that you were first responder to car problem. ;-)
 
If you are not hometesting, then I would highly recommend that you begin. One possibility is that you cat is experiencing a Somogyi Rebound because your dose is too high. In order to protect itself from becoming hypoglycemic, the body will release extra glucose in itself when too much insulin is given. You may have missed your optimal dose. Unless there are other health issues going on, most cats at FDMB are on 1 or 2 units twice a day.

Hometesting is not difficult and can be done using any human glucose meter.
 
and.....i can get you all set up too.
but the food issue is my curiosity.
and the insulin handling.
and the idea that another insulin will lower his numbers if this one can't.
 
I also use levemir and the cost is very low - like what Vicky posted, or even less. I have two diabetics, but only one is on insulin. The other is diet controlled. The one on insulin gets about a half unit twice a day, so I only use about 2 cartridges a year.

My diet controlled one went through quite a rough time in the beginning - a lot like you have described your cat. He was on a pet insulin and was up to 7u and still showing all the signs of diabetes - like excessive drinking and peeing. I was not home testing and I was still feeding him his beloved Iams Weight Control dry food. His dose was raised (and raised, and raised) based on taking him to the vet once a week for a blood sugar test and for a couple of all day curves. Then I found this site.

I started home testing, weened him off the dry food and dropped the dose (plus, right away I split it into two doses a day as he was on once a day shots). He went from 3u bid to less than 1u bid. His BG dropped from 400s, 500s, and a few over 600s to mid 200s and low 300s at shot time and low 100s at mid-cycle. I believe he was having issues with both rebound, as Lisa suggested, and dry food "spikes". I had him regulated within a month of starting to home test and all dry food was gone. He, and all my cats, is fed low carb canned food - mostly Friskies and Fancy Feast.

20 months later I switched him to levemir and he was off insulin in about 3 months. Even if he did not come off insulin, the levemir worked much better at keeping his BG lower over all and safely getting him to normal low numbers where, apparently, his pancreas was able to heal. Remission is never a sure thing, but it is more likely when the BG can be kept in lower numbers - which is possible, and probably easiest, with insulins like levemir and lantus. I do not have any experience with your insulin however.

I would guess that you are experiencing rebound hyperglycemia from that high dose. 7u is a lot of insulin in most cases. 1-2u is more typical. There is a disease that can cause much higher insulin needs, called Acromegaly. It is rare, but not unheard of. There are some other causes of high dose, but you first need to rule out rebound and make sure your cat's diet is low carb before looking into those possibilities.
 
This cat was an abandoned cat 4 years ago, we took it in and the vet did all the needed things to ensure the cat was healthy. 4 Months ago my cat began to drink lots of water, and had problems with constipation. It was so bad that he had to be sedated and his bowls emptied by manual manipulation. By the time we determined he was now suffering from hign blood sugar, his vet bill was rapidly approching $4,000. He was put on ProZinc Insulin beginning at 2 units twice daily. He is no up to 7 units twice daily and he still appears to have symptoms. He has been eating a special diabetic food (Purina DM). The vet says his bloodsugar is in the 400 range but the long term fructose testing recently completed indicates his bloodsugar is under control.

I have had a diabetic cat years ago when you had to pick up regular insulin and needles at the drugstore just thye same as human diabetics. The insulin was much cheaper and far more effective. Although I love this cat dearly, I can not afford $200 per month for insulin and food, while still dealing with diabetic symptoms. He drinks more water than ever and he pees enough to use up a 42 pound box of clumping cat litter in a week to 10 days.

Thanks for your help... any ideas??
werty4443

Cindy + Mousie said:
hi there and welcome.

i might as well get you started on answering some questions 'cause i know everyone is gonna ask :)

we like to make sure there aren't other contributing factors when a kitty isn't doing as well as they can be 'cause that helps to rule out insulins

can you tell us what you feed? alot of times people don't realize they can feed a lower carb food than what they are and the lower carbs kitty gets, the better their glucose numbers are, just like humans i suppose.

then, by chance do you hometest or know what that is? thru hometesting you can get a better handle on what's really going on with kitty and whether an insulin is working or not. alot of times we find that kitty is out of whack because dosing decisions are made based solely on testing done at the clinic and that can sometimes be grossly inaccurate due to vet stress, etc....

and does kitty have any other health conditions? any infections as of late? teeth ok? does kitty go outside?
Click to expand...
 
Is it dry food or canned?

You don't need to feed prescription food. Most cats on this board eat low cost canned foods like Friskies, Fancy Feast, and even Walmart's store brand.

Do you test the BG numbers at home?

If not, you should get a meter and test at home. Not only will this prevent costly trips to the vet, it will allow you to see what's happening with your cat and help you get him regulated.
 
It's me again. I should mention that I am not home testing and that we began ProZinc at 2 units twice daily. Bloodsugar was rechecked bi-weekly by the vet and each time during the mid cycle period (5-6 hours following an injection). Results hovered between 700 and 800. We slowly increased dosage a unit at a time, waited 2 weeks and did the testing. We finally ended up at 6 to 7 units twice daily with mid cycle bloodsugar readings in the high 300's to low 400's.

Thanks to everyone for their input, suggestions and help. This cat is such a warm and friendly lap cat of an estimated 8 years of age. I would hate to lose it now to diabetes.
werty4443
 
If you begin to home test, you will find what the true numbers are, not just what you get at the vets office.
Are you stressed when you go to the dr office? Of course you are! And so is your cat! Numbers at the vets office are very likely completely different than at home.

Just pick up an regular meter at the pharmacy, some lancets, and test strips. Also, get some ketostix so that you can test urine for ketones. By testing at home, you will save yourself a HUGE TON of cash. Also, you may find that the dose you are giving needs adjusting.

Forget about the fancy rx food and for sure feed low carb wet food. A great number of cats are diet controlled so food plays a very big part in the numbers. One of my cats is very sensitive to dry food and even just a few pieces cause her numbers to go through the roof. Friskies, fancy feast, and 9lives are just a few of the foods commonly fed that are low carb. And don't forget about those 'treats' as they are high carb and really are not good treats for a diabetic. There are some healthier items you can feed as treats; others will have many suggestions for you.

About the insulin you are using - it may not be lasting long enough for your cat - Lantus and Levemir are quite gentle and longer lasting. You may want to try switching to one of them.

It is so very important to know how your cat is reacting to the insulin, every day, and not just taking one number every couple of weeks. Most people test just before each shot, and just before going to bed. At the start, it's a good idea to do a few curves, testing every couple hours, just to find out where your cat's nadir is located. My 2 cats are totally different; Shadoe has her nadir closer to +4 or 5, but Oliver is closer to +10 or 11. If I were to test him at +5 or 6, I may get a 300 but if I tested him 4 hours later, I may get 150. And that's the reason for the curves when you first start - you need to know where your cat is.

If you are feeding any sort of dry food or even wet food that is high carb with lots of gravies or a grilled variety, you will see a big drop, likely, in your cat's insulin needs so before making any food changes, please be sure you are home testing. You don't want your cat dropping to numbers that are too low.

Giving 7 units of any insulin is quite a high dose. If you are still needing to give this high dose after addressing all of the above, and your testing is still showing high BG numbers, there are tests that can be done to try and pinpoint the reason for insulin resistance.
There could be any number of other reasons for the high dose, it could even be a dental issue.
I took Shadoe for a dental and she had one bad tooth that was extracted. Her dose dropped quite a bit after her dental work, so teeth could be contributing.

At any rate, many people here can help you get your cat feeling much better and without spending a ton of money. It can be done.
 
We started outon ProZinc, 2 units twice a day. After 2 weeks, the vet wanted to increase to 3 units twice a day. I had long since found this site, and I knew that the protocol should be increasing by no more than a half unit at time, and I only increased by half a unit....and even that was too much. It turned out that I never needed to go even close to 3 units.

Many vets seem to like to increase by full units, and it's very easy to go past the ideal dose that way. It may not seem logical, but if you give too much insulin, the BG readings can look just like if you are giving too little insulin, due to the liver releasing stored sugar and hormones to increase BG to protect the cat from hypoglycemia. ProZinc often shows big results from small dose adjustments. I always advise adjusting by 0.25 unit at a time...even adjustments as small as 0.05-0.1u can give you dramatic results. Never increase by a full unit!!

As others have said, I urge you to start home testing. It is the best way to get your cat regulated, as well as the least expensive and quickest. If you plan to change the diet as others have advised you, please do not change the diet until you are home testing! Your cat is on a very high dose of ProZinc, and if you change to a low carb diet, his insulin needs will decrease quickly. If you are not home testing, you will not be able to see the lower BG readings and are risking hypoglycemia!

You can certainly change to Lantus or Levemir, but ProZinc is an excellent choice as well. No matter what insulin you use, you will need to start (or re-start if you stay with ProZinc) at a low dose and work your way back up slowly while home testing in order to get your cat regulated. I strongly suspect that you have overshot the correct dose and are going to end up with a hypoglycemic event sooner or later if you don't lower the dose.
 
Hi, there! I hope you're not feeling too overwhelmed by everything that's happening with your cat. Hang in there, because there's lots of help to be found here.

I'm only going to tell you what I've experienced thus far as a new hometester. My cat spent nearly three years being shot with insulin without testing. It's (to me) utterly remarkable that he never had a catastrophic hypoglycemic emergency, but that's only one draw-back for a cat who is unregulated.

Rufus' life was turned around within a week of testing and trying my hardest to follow the protocol for Lantus (our insulin). His coat went from oily and full-of-dandruff to shiny and clear; he was more social, less anxious, and his urine output was lessened, too - he even started playing again!

Insulin and good food weren't enough to keep my cat healthy - they were enough to keep him alive. Hometesting and following the protocol for our insulin are what made the difference for Rufus.

Just something to keep in mind. :smile:
 
Ok, a couple of things...

1. Humulin R or regular insulin is absolutely not appropriate for cats. If your previous cat survived on it, you are lucky, because it is absolutely not appropriate for cats.

2. PZI is not weaker, it just doesn't pack a quick punch and wear off in a few hours like R.

3. testing at home is the only way to really know what is going on. Testing at the clinic doesn't replicate home conditions, and vet stress MAY affect blood glucose levels. As the others have said, testing at home will help immensely. And, for what its worth, the alpha track is expensive, especially the strips, and is not required. Just about any human glucometer will do...

Jen
 
thank you laura and mr tinkles, pzi IS a fine insulin to begin with...and maybe even to end with. the problem right now is not the insulin.
if you need help getting a started testing please contact newbie kits at the link below my post ok...we'll get yu all set up.
agree with every one here that your dose is extraordiarily high, but we will never know why until your testing.
and DO NOT CHANGE DOSE if you change diet ok, wait to change dose if you change diet until your testing.
 
Thanks to everyone who helped me with my cat Fluffy.

I took your advice and began home testing. I discovered giving 6 units of PZI twice daily did not lower his BG readings, it increased them. I stopped giving any insulin for 36 hours, and changed his food to Little Friskys canned food. I then began giving him 1/2 unit of PZI. In the month that has gone by, I continue to feed him canned food and I have increased his dose a quarter unit at a time. I am currently back up to 2 units twice daily. His BG levels now average in the mid to low 200's with some mid day readings at 190 or so. This is much improved from his BG averages in the high 300's to mid 400's.

Hopefully by the time I reach 2 1/2 units twice daily, he will be back in normal ranges. He still is not himself and does not play anymore. He also stays to himself more and has had some "accidents" peeing outside the box. Ugh!

Any additional suggestions or advice is appreciated.
Thanks
werty
 
Wow! Good for you! Things are improving!

Have you had him checked for infection or dental issues? Are you testing his urine for ketones?

It may be that a simple dose increase will be sufficient but it is always good to rule out other issues.

Good luck and keep us updated, and ask questions whenever you need to

Jen
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Humulin R or regular insulin is absolutely not appropriate for cats. If your previous cat survived on it, you are lucky, because it is absolutely not appropriate for cats.
Click to expand...

werty may be referring to Humulin-U, a really cheap, long-lasting insulin that is no longer made. It was discontinued in 2005.
 
werty may be referring to Humulin-U, a really cheap, long-lasting insulin that is no longer made. It was discontinued in 2005.
Click to expand...

Also, Humulin L was discontinued along with the U. Only one still available that people used to use was N ..... rarely used as an insulin for cats anymore. Humulin R also is available and used usually at an ER facility for treating DKA. When we lost Humulin L and U we went to IDEXX PZI or BCP PZI but by then Lantus and Levemir had also come out.

Sounds like things are improving with the diet switch and hometesting.
 
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