Inappetance

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dsmithkma said:
I'm not afraid of testing him. He was diagnosed on Wed. Had a glucose curve at the vet's on Fri. (he ate at 7AM) and didn't eat Fri. night and only ate a bit on Sat.

Today, he is doing quite a bit better, havng taken in so far about 6-7 oz of Fancy Feast and a little tuna. I've been feeding him a little bit every 2 hours or so.

I've already tested him and am very comfortable doing it. Given his calorie deficiency yesterday, I just want to ensure he keeps eating today.

I got him off the dry junk cold turkey, so I suspect his system is a bit "off". Tomorrow, I plan on testing him and if he eats decently, give him his insulin (1/2 unit).
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That's great news! Remember, if he tests under 200 tomorrow, don't feed and don't give his shot, but post here for advice first. If that happens, there are a few options available (stalling, skipping the shot, etc...), but we can cross that bridge when we get to it. :thumbup

When was the last time he received insulin and how much?
 
He received one unit of Lantis on Fri. morning for his curve testing. I have not given any since then, due to him not eating enough.
 
Good morning-

I went to test Kitten this morning and I dropped my meter and it broke ohmygod_smile . I really wanted to test him this AM prior to giving his first Lantus injection.

He only ate 1 oz. of food ( I used a postal scale to measure and track the amount). I calle our vet and he said it would be fine to give him his 1/2 unit. Then try to get hime to eat in abut 1.5-2 hours later.

I've already ordered a replacement AlphaTrak (couldn't find anyone local with one in stock).

Fortunately, I work from home most of the time and can monitor him today.

Since this is his first injection by me, I am one NERVOUS daddy. I will say he took it with zero objection, although it was really, really intimidating to measure 1/2 unit. It's like hardly anything in the syringe. I wonder if a magnifying glass might make it easier to see the dose.
 
Ouch! on dropping and breaking that Alphatrak. You found out the hard way this morning why many of us have a back up meter.

Most of us here use the human glucometers. They do read differently then the pet specific ones like the Alphatrak but the difference is 30-40%. At the low range, that is 30 points. One of the main reasons we use the human glucometers is the cost of the test strips.

An alternative to the expensive Alphatrak meter, is one of the Walmart Relion meters. Relion Confirm and Micro ($16) have interchangeable test strips, $18/50 or 36 cents each. Relion Prime ($16) has the least expensive test strips, $9/50 or 18 cents each. Alphatrak test strips are $1 to $2 each from what other people have said. Confirm 0.3 blood drop, Prime, 0.5 blood drop.

Here is the consumer reports reviews of glucometers with some added notes from people on certain glucometers that do not work well for cats at the higher numbers http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70140 You may want to consider a backup meter from this list.

The reason I had you make the Alphatrak in large text in your signature, was because most of us do use the human meters. We have to adjust our thinking a bit when looking at the numbers to put them in the correct ranges for the dosing protocol and for what may be a hypo situation.

p.s. I used the Alphatrak to start, but convinced the cat shelter to switch to the less expensive Relion Confirm meter with it's lower test strip cost. You can look at Wink's SS and see some parallel testing I did. First row for a date is with the Alphatrak, second row for a date is the Confirm.
 
Hi Deb,

I tried explaining to my wife that it was OK to use human meters. She said the vet recommended AlphaTrak and that's what we're using. I've learned that when my wife puts her foot down, it's likely in my best interest to listen to her, LOL.

Deb, do you have any tips I can use to get Kitten to eat more at each meal? The vet recommended 1.5 cans of the 5.5 oz. per day.
 
I understand you on the meter and why you will be sticking with the Alphatrak. Thought I'd give you another, less expensive option, and maybe a backup meter so you wouldn't have a repeat of this mornings broken meter problem.

I've already ordered a replacement AlphaTrak (couldn't find anyone local with one in stock).
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Be sure to always have plenty of test strips on hand. At least a box of 50 unopened, in case of emergency. You can go through the strips really fast, especially during a hypo emergency. Murphy's law number 692, you will run out of test strips when you really, really need some and the vet will be closed for the holiday weekend and you can't get any more test strips for 3 days. And then find out the vet is out of stock too. Our shopping partner, ADW, has one of the lowest prices for the Alphatrak test strips that I have seen, just a little under a buck a piece. If you use the link at the top of the page to order, FDMB gets a little bit of money to help keep us going.

Deb, do you have any tips I can use to get Kitten to eat more at each meal? The vet recommended 1.5 cans of the 5.5 oz. per day.
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Are they any treats that Kitten likes? What are his favorite flavors?

My cat Wink will do anything for Halo Liv-a-litte freeze dried chicken treats. They crumble very easily into powder and I sprinkle them over the food. Maybe topping the food with a teaspoon of a Fancy Feast appetizer if Kitten likes those. Some plain tuna in water, 1 teaspoon on top.

Bonito flakes, Pure Bites Freeze Dried chicken, Whole Life freeze dried liver or beef or chicken treats. My civie Delta loves the freeze dried liver treats. Pieces of plain unspiced chicken pressed into the top of the food. A bit of ground turkey cooked and crumbled if he likes that.

It's like hardly anything in the syringe. I wonder if a magnifying glass might make it easier to see the dose.
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There are syringe magnifiers available that clip on to the barrel of the syringe.

How much does Kitten weigh? 8.25 ounces may not be enough food, especially for an unregulated diabetic kitty. Which food are you feeding so we can look up the calorie content. I know you mentioned the Fancy Feast, but which ones?
 
Has Kitten always been a grazer or has he only had two separate meals? For diabetics, it's often suggested to allow them to graze throughout the day, especially when they're first unregulated as they're literally starving. Are you worried because he still seems to be having some appetite problems? Grazing might work better, especially if he's nauseated because it will allow him to eat smaller bits throughout the day instead of a big meal (which might upset his tummy further).

Another trick that works ridiculously well in my house is sprinkling Parmesan cheese on top or, as Deb mentioned, the "dust" from their treat bags or even some plain boiled chicken breasts.
 
Hi Deb & Kpasa,

I have plenty of strips, which is a good thing.

He is eating, but only about 1/2 an ounce each time. Kitten weighs 10.8 lbs. He used to be about 13.5 lbs.
I'd love to get about 10 oz. or so in him daily for now. I've been giving him Fancy Feast Classic: Cod Sole Shrimp, Tender Beef & Liver, Tender Beef Feast, and Savory Beef.

He used to be a dry junk (yes, that's how I refer to it now) grazer. My wife and I were complacent and left the dry junk buffet open 24/7, although we did watch how much we were giving them.

We have 5 furry babies and we've switched ALL of them to wet only and we switched all of them cold turkey. We're still feeling out who likes what flavor. Three of them have adapted pretty easily...finishing their entire portion. If I left out some soft for Kitten to grazo on, I'm sure someone else would scarf it down.

But one of them, Oliver, who was a stray who came around our house and we took him in, is eating like Kitten. He too is only taking in 1/2-1 oz. or so and I'm worried about him too. He is not diabetic, but is overweight.
 
dsmithkma said:
...She said the vet recommended AlphaTrak and that's what we're using..
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If you're going to stick with that, make sure you have at least 50 test strips on hand at all times, so if your cat goes hypoglycemic, you can test until he is out of danger. You cannot get these over the counter, and vets aren't open 24 hours a day.

Alternatively, pick one up as a back up meter, such as the Arkray USA Glucocard 01 from American Diabetes Wholesale (aka Walmart ReliOn Confirm). Both are shopping partners, so if you use the links on the page, it helps support FDMB.

From the University of Queensland, Dr Rand at the Centre for Companion Animal Health is an expert in feline diabetes. These 2 documents provide reference ranges for using human glucometers.
http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link4.pdf
http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link3.pdf
Its like reading temperature as Celsius vs Fahrenheit. She and the online Diabetes Katzen forum in Europe developed the initial Tight Regulation Lantus protocol using human glucometers.
 
Just wanted to say Hi! and intro myself. I'm just right down the road from you in Birmingham AL.
I have had a sugar cat (diabetic) for 1 1/2 years. Without the folks here I'd never be where I am today!
More importantly - I don't know where my cat would be today!! She is alive because of the help of all of these wonderful people!
Just like me-you found the right place for you and Kitten to be!
Welcome aboard!
Terri
 
Not a great day today! I've only managed to get him to eat about 4 oz. of food all day. He's due to get his insulin now and he only ate .8 oz of tuna a few minutes ago.

I am so frustrated and scared for him!

I don't think he's had enough food today for a second injection.
 
Ok then. Shopping trip tomorrow!! It's important to test for ketones a couple a times a week. Diabetic ketoacidosis is an expensive and dangerous condition that you do need to watch form especially when kitties are over 350.

Anyway for tonite you are likely better skipping, better to be too high for a day than too low for a minute.

Wendy
 
dsmithkma said:
I am just SO worried about him not eating enough. It breaks my heart. :YMSIGH:
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hello and welcome to the board!
if you're only getting about 4oz into him you might want to ask your vet about an appetite stimulant such as cyproheptadine (cypro) or mirtazapine. alex didn't react well to mirtazapine so we give her cypro if needed. most vets seem to prescribe a half tab every 12 hours as needed, but we found less is better. we give her 1/4 (or less) of a 4mg tab of cypro. any more than that and she appears nervous... paces... and is very vocal.

an insufficient supply of insulin + inappetance + infection or systemic stresses = a recipe for developing Ketoacidosis. he needs to eat... even if it's his old dry food.

where in TN are you? i'm just south of Nashville.
 
I've literally tried all varietes of Fancy Feast, plain tuna, parm. cheese sprinkled on them, chicken broth...pretty much all the tricks.

The thing is he'll eat a little bit then stop. Yesterday, i was able to get him to eat about 8 oz. of various foods.

Today, bad luck.
 
Jill & Alex said:
dsmithkma said:
I am just SO worried about him not eating enough. It breaks my heart. :YMSIGH:
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hello and welcome to the board!
if you're only getting about 4oz into him you might want to ask your vet about an appetite stimulant such as cyproheptadine (cypro) or mirtazapine. alex didn't react well to mirtazapine so we give her cypro if needed. most vets seem to prescribe a half tab every 12 hours as needed, but we found less is better. we give her 1/4 (or less) of a 4mg tab of cypro. any more than that and she appears nervous... paces... and is very vocal.

an insufficient supply of insulin + inappetance + infection or systemic stresses = a recipe for developing Ketoacidosis. he needs to eat... even if it's his old dry food.

where in TN are you? i'm just south of Nashville.
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hello-

We live in Nashville. I'm going to call the vet first thing in the morning about this. He's not interested in his old food either.

Did the app stimulant work well with your cat?
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Dry food?
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it's better than nothing... especially when a caregiver can't shoot.
kitty HAS to eat. not eating plus not being able to give insulin is leaving the door wide open for diabetic ketoacidosis to come walking in.
 
dsmithkma said:
hello-

We live in Nashville. I'm going to call the vet first thing in the morning about this. He's not interested in his old food either.

Did the app stimulant work well with your cat?
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yes, it worked very well... and still does when i have to give it to her. she has several other problems besides diabetes.



edited to add: i'm in franklin. holler if you need anything.
 
That's good to know.

Strange this is, he had a good appetite with canned food. He was didgnosed last We. I immediately put him on wet food, lo carb and high protein and he ate it with gusto. Then on Fri. morning he ate 1/2 can of DM, then he went to the vet's for a curve and Fri. noght was not interested in food at all.
 
Jill & Alex said:
dsmithkma said:
hello-

We live in Nashville. I'm going to call the vet first thing in the morning about this. He's not interested in his old food either.

Did the app stimulant work well with your cat?
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yes, it worked very well... and still does when i have to give it to her. she has several other problems besides diabetes.



edited to add: i'm in franklin. holler if you need anything.
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Thank you.

My boy has a bit of arthritis and vey mild asthma (so mild he doesn't need any treatment). Other than those (and of course now diabetes) he's always been a healthy boy.
 
some cats will like DM initially and then they won't touch it.
pick up some ketostix from any drug store to test his urine for ketones. alex lets me stick an old soup ladle under her when she pees. that's how i collect her urine for testing. follow the directions on the ketostix bottle carefully.
you don't want to see him throwing ketones.

in the meantime, i'd let him eat whatever he wants/will eat until you can ask the vet about an appetite stimulant.
 
Maybe it's all stress and your stress may be stressing him out too. He ate 4oz today so he got some food into him so try not to worry. Maybe give him and yourself break now, try him once more before bed and let him be. Leave the dry and some wet out all night.

Many cats get sickof the DM quick so I wouldn't bother with that. Also I would put food in front of him and not hover, it could stress him out too, or he could be thinking something better might be coming..

Also get yourself a new meter ASAP, because with data we can then know whether you can shoot anyway even though he isn't eating well enough.
 
Jill & Alex said:
some cats will like DM initially and then they won't touch it.
pick up some ketostix from any drug store to test his urine for ketones. alex lets me stick an old soup ladle under her when she pees. that's how i collect her urine for testing. follow the directions on the ketostix bottle carefully.
you don't want to see him throwing ketones.

in the meantime, i'd let him eat whatever he wants/will eat until you can ask the vet about an appetite stimulant.
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That's so funny! I collect their urine the exact same way...an old ladle! We have 5 cats total and when they have a checkup, that's how we collect a sample. Some are easier than others.

I'll offer him some more food in a bit, he's sleeping right now.
 
More ideas

powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
trader joe tuna for cats
baby food -- beechnut or Gerber Stage 2 -- you want a baby food that is only a protein + broth (although the Gerber contains cornstarch). It should have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
kentucky fried chicken
deli turkey /chicken
plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
chicken broth -- low sodium

My boys also like cream, ice cream, cookies, shortbread, cheeses poof chips.. Which I would crumble in top of regular food in very very small amounts..
 
i grind up dry food in a coffee grinder and sprinkle it liberally on alex's canned food whenever she won't eat. some people use cat nip,oregano, or cheese. is there any junk food he likes? alex LOVES cheetos and cheeze-it crackers! if all else fails i'll crumble one of those up and put it on top of her food. sometimes all it takes is a couple of bites to get them eating again.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Maybe it's all stress and your stress may be stressing him out too. He ate 4oz today so he got some food into him so try not to worry. Maybe give him and yourself break now, try him once more before bed and let him be. Leave the dry and some wet out all night.

Many cats get sickof the DM quick so I wouldn't bother with that. Also I would put food in front of him and not hover, it could stress him out too, or he could be thinking something better might be coming..

Also get yourself a new meter ASAP, because with data we can then know whether you can shoot anyway even though he isn't eating well enough.
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I ordered a new meter today ( I dropped it this morning ohmygod_smile It's suppose to arrive tomorrow.

Yes, I need to focus that he at least ate something today. I'll try your suggestions.

Thank you.
 
Tiggy likes olives, olive oil, chips (more the vinegar on them!), any kind of cheese

He doesn't get any of it.. But worth a try when not eating..
 
Jill & Alex said:
i grind up dry food in a coffee grinder and sprinkle it liberally on alex's canned food whenever she won't eat. some people use cat nip,oregano, or cheese. is there any junk food he likes? alex LOVES cheetos and cheeze-it crackers! if all else fails i'll crumble one of those up and put it on top of her food. sometimes all it takes is a couple of bites to get them eating again.
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I've tried most of that. Again, he eats, just a small amount each time.
 
dsmithkma said:
I've tried most of that. Again, he eats, just a small amount each time.
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all you can do is keep trying as you have been. if your vet will give you an appetite stimulant i think the problem will be solved.
 
Is he sniffing and licking his lips and walking away?

Eating a little is interesting, I wonder if he is just hoping for something else new.. Hence the idea to do what you used to do, put food down and go off and leave him and try and pretend lack of interest... ;)
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Is he sniffing and licking his lips and walking away? No, he actually eat between .3 -.5 ounces.

Eating a little is interesting, I wonder if he is just hoping for something else new.. Hence the idea to do what you used to do, put food down and go off and leave him and try and pretend lack of interest... ;)
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Yes, I put it down in a seperate room so he won't be bothered (we have 4 others) and close the door.

When I "pop" the can, he comes to the kitchen and meows.
 
Well, some good news this morning. Last night, he ate about 1 oz. before I went to bed (and I actually got a decent night's sleep; I have been so exhausted).

This morning, I got my sweet Kitten to eat 2.2 oz. of food at 6:30 AM! That's the most he's eaten at one sitting since last Friday.

Also, his stool has firmed up quite a bit as well. He has been a little pudding-like, so I'm wondering if his system is adjusting to being off the dry junk and adapting more to the wet.

ALso, the new BG meter is due to arrive this afternoon, so I will test him then. I also will be getting some ketone strips today.

Again, thank you all for the advice and encouragement.
 
Yay that he's eating again! You might be right about his system needing time to adjust. Let us know how it goes and if you were able to test yet with the new meter. :-D

ETA: just saw your new post. :thumbup
 
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