I'm not sure what to do for Sheldon

Rishi

Member
Continued from: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...sed-your-guidance-is-most-appreciated.297795/

1. He's been back a couple of days from the hospital. Although he is definitely better than when he went in, there are still some significant issues to deal with. They gave him some Rx "diabetic friendly" dry food while there, and some to take home. I know this isn't good food, but at least he's eating it, whereas other foods are hit and miss.

However, his BG has tested as "HI" on the human meter for the last two readings. Never happened before. I assume the dry food at least partially caused that. I don't want to give him more of this, but I need him to eat enough too.

They gave him 2u of Lantus in the hospital, and that was his last stable dose (not really a "good" dose) before all this started happening. I've been giving the same. I could increase, but with other things going on, I was hesitant to do so.

3. We started on budesonide 1mg yesterday, but administering pills in any form seems a challenge, especially when he's not eating the same wet foods as much because we can use that to mix the pill into. I've put it in small amounts of Churu paste or FF wet food, but he's not eating all of it.

4. He really hates the Cerenia and ondansetron injections. He hisses, runs, and hides almost before I finish pushing the meds. It might not be worth doing this because he'll probably start to fear or distrust me too much. He also hates the taste of the ondansetron pills and putting it in food has not worked thus far. Although I don't need to use these, I want him to eat as well. We've used transdermal mirtazapine for appetite stimulation, but that only does so much.

5. I tried "pilling" him manually by holding his head back, mouth open, etc. It didn't work, after 5-10 tries. He kept jerking his head back as I opened his mouth, and I don't have a ready position to prevent that movement, especially while trying to hold the pill in the other hand and also keep lower jaw open and head tilted up. I don't want to be too firm. This is also a negative experience for him, although probably not as traumatic as the injections. I can keep trying, maybe using a pill popper, etc...but either I just need practice or this might not work for him.
 
Cerenia and ondansatron come in pill form. You may need to stuff them into a blank capsule. You can purchase blank capsules through Capsuline or other sources. You may want to get a pill "gun". It makes it easier to get a pill in your cat's mouth/throat.

Chances are the vet was using Lantus plus a short acting insulin. I would focus more on getting Sheldon to eat.
 
I got budesonide compounded into liquid format for Neko. I found that much easier to give her. As a bonus, it was much easier to reduce the dose when we decided to do that. Is he still getting prednisolone? It's in your signature. I've also gotten that compounded into chew treats.

Cerenia and ondansetron injections can sting. Have you tried keeping them in the fridge? That's supposed to make it less stingy.

My vet gave me transdermal maropitant (Cerenia is the brand name). Maybe not quite as effective as the pills, but it works.

I used a pill shooter with Neko, she was really hard to pill. I used to have no problem pilling cats at the shelter when I volunteered/worked there part time - Neko made me up my game! More tips in this post: Pilling Your Cat

Regarding the insulin dose, any chance they missed some shots at the clinic? If so, you'll have to wait for the Lantus depot to rebuild. That in combo with the dry food can make for higher numbers. One other thought, although budesonide doesn't impact numbers for most cats, it does for some. It made no difference for Neko, but I have seen some that do get a numbers bump.
 
Cerenia and ondansatron come in pill form. You may need to stuff them into a blank capsule. You can purchase blank capsules through Capsuline or other sources. You may want to get a pill "gun". It makes it easier to get a pill in your cat's mouth/throat.

Chances are the vet was using Lantus plus a short acting insulin. I would focus more on getting Sheldon to eat.

Yup, I have a few of the ondansetron pills left as well. He absolutely does not like that taste somehow, but at least it's a very small pill. Still, I haven't been able to get him to eat it in food. We just got this pill shooter today, so let's see. He won't like that either, but at least it's a got soft tip so I can try to push it into this mouth from the side.
 
I got budesonide compounded into liquid format for Neko. I found that much easier to give her. As a bonus, it was much easier to reduce the dose when we decided to do that. Is he still getting prednisolone? It's in your signature. I've also gotten that compounded into chew treats.

Cerenia and ondansetron injections can sting. Have you tried keeping them in the fridge? That's supposed to make it less stingy.

My vet gave me transdermal maropitant (Cerenia is the brand name). Maybe not quite as effective as the pills, but it works.

I used a pill shooter with Neko, she was really hard to pill. I used to have no problem pilling cats at the shelter when I volunteered/worked there part time - Neko made me up my game! More tips in this post: Pilling Your Cat

Regarding the insulin dose, any chance they missed some shots at the clinic? If so, you'll have to wait for the Lantus depot to rebuild. That in combo with the dry food can make for higher numbers. One other thought, although budesonide doesn't impact numbers for most cats, it does for some. It made no difference for Neko, but I have seen some that do get a numbers bump.

Oh that's interesting. I will consider the budesonide liquid form. We stopped the prednisolone a few days back, and they didn't give him any in the hospital.

I have the pre-loaded syringes (from vet) all in the fridge. Still, I don't think I'm going to use the Cerenia or ondansetron injections anymore, unless he really needs them. They might be a bit too traumatizing.

I will keep the transdermal maropitant in mind. It's good to have options.

I think the hospital only gave him Lantus once per day, so yeah. That's a good point.
 
Continued from: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...sed-your-guidance-is-most-appreciated.297795/

5. I tried "pilling" him manually by holding his head back, mouth open, etc. It didn't work, after 5-10 tries. He kept jerking his head back as I opened his mouth, and I don't have a ready position to prevent that movement, especially while trying to hold the pill in the other hand and also keep lower jaw open and head tilted up. I don't want to be too firm. This is also a negative experience for him, although probably not as traumatic as the injections. I can keep trying, maybe using a pill popper, etc...but either I just need practice or this might not work for him.

Tilting a cat's head up like that makes it impossible for him to swallow, making administering a pill or even a liquid painful and is one reason why cats fight being pilled. You can experience what it feels like by lifting your chin all the way up and trying to swallow. Better to hold his head level or with his mouth slightly down, but never up.
 
I have to pull one of my cats every morning. She is not the most cooperative of cats but this works for us both. I pick her up and put her on my lap, and lie her back while holding her scruff. She is flat on my lap. I open her mouth with one finger and pop the pill into the back of her throat and she swallows it every time.
 
My vet doesn’t give cerenia injections unless with extra fluids because of the pain. She’s said I could give it with the SQ fluids I give but so far (knock wood) I can manage with topical or pill cerenia.

If using pills I used to use a pill pocket (but those are extremely high carb)…I could justify it because everything else he eats is 0 carb. Then I gradually decreased the amount of pill pocket used so he was getting even less , like a tiny skim of covering on the tablet. With his other meds he will just eat them plain or with a dusting of forti flora on them (I admit he’s an angel I don’t deserve). But I also found churu bites, they are a small chewy tube filled with a dab of churu…8% carbs. So I use those for cerenia instead of the dab of pill pocket I’d been using.
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Hi there, just wanted to check in with you and some of the others.

Sheldon is doing better overall. He's stable. But there's still the primary goal of regulating his BG. Although I'm able to gradually raise the dose because he's eating better now, and his numbers are perhaps moving lower on some occasions, it's still bouncing high into the 400s regularly.

Is it really just a matter of keeping him feeling ok and eating while trying to raise the insulin to a level that finally works? His hind leg weakness is the worst part, and it seems the best way to address that is to regulate his BG.

We have some appointments coming up, but otherwise just trying to keep him happy and eating.


Thanks,

Rishi
 
Focus on the nadirs, or low points. He's seeing some mid 100's now, though I see he did see a 62 on 3/28 with a 2.5 units dose. Your signature says you are following TR for dosing, but some days you are only getting the two preshot tests. When following TR, you have to get the two preshot tests, plus at least on other test in both the AM and PM cycles. Otherwise you might be missing if he's going low, and then bouncing.

For hind leg weakness, are you giving him Zobaline or Methyl B12? Those along with getting him into better BG values will help his legs. More info here: Feline Diabetic Neuropathy
 
Don't dry pill :eek: It can cause something called erosive esophagitis. Info https://catinfo.org/pilling-cats-an...natives-transdermal-medications-pill-pockets/

Ask the vet if compounding the medicines into a different form is an option. Wedgewood Pharmacy is popular and has many options for common pet medicines, such as flavored liquids and chew treats and transdermal gel. A local compounding pharmacy is also an option and you could probably just pick it up instead of paying for shipping.
 
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