I'm new and I'm worried

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123joan

123joan

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I'm Joan, our 12-year-old cat Lucy was diagnosed six days ago with diabetes and urinary tract infection.

I took her in last Monday morning; she stayed all day at the vet and overnight in order for them to collect a urine sample. She is scheduled to go back this Tuesday for the glucose curve test. The vet sent me home with Clavamox for the infection, and Prozinc 2 units twice daily after eating. She also sent cans of Purina DM and a bag of dry Purina DM. Our vet asked me to think about home testing, but we haven't gotten that far yet, that will probably come after the glucose curve test. We're doing fine with the actual injections.

Before her diagnosis, Lucy ate Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach, free feeding style, alongside her six-year-old buddy Petey. I've had to change from the free-feeding style to the twice-daily feedings in order to have her fed for sure before her twice-daily insulin injections. After reading this board for hours I see that the free-feeding dry food is probably the worst choice, however it was so easy with two cats. So now I'm feeling good and guilty about that. Plus Lucy is FAT; of course I'm feeling guilty about that too.

Now that feeding has been switched to twice daily, I think both cats are actually eating less. I have no idea, though, because I wasn't measuring before. I'm giving her a little of the canned food along with the dry, about a tablespoon. So now that she is eating less, are the 2 units too much?

Tonight after her injection, she seems very tired. She didn't finish the portion of food I gave her before the injection, but since she ate I gave her the regular dose. I've been reading about the symptoms of hypoglycemia, she isn't drunk or glazed-eyed, just tired. Coordinated, just wants to stay in her box. I'm worried because this is the first time her appetite has been really off.

This post is getting long; I'm trying to get too much off my mind at once! I hope I don't scare everyone off.

How will I ever be able to switch her to canned cat food and know how much she is eating and how much insulin she should have? I am frightened about all the decisions I have to make.
 
Welcome Joan (and of course Lucy)!

OK, you're overwhelmed and unsure and probably pretty freaked out, so we'll go one step at a time. First off, you are NOT feeling any different than many first-time posters, so you're not scaring anyone off. It's a lot to absorb and deal with all at once. One advantage you do have is that you have already gotten a feel for the board and read some, and that's a good thing.

3 things are key to dealing with feline diabetes -
1 - diet change
2 - home testing
3 - home treatments

There are other really important things, but let's start with 3.
1 - Most of us have our kitties on an all-canned low-carb diet. Low carbs is the key. The problem with most dry foods is that they have a high carb content, and carbs and diabetes don't mix. Long term, you want to get your sugarcat off the dry and stick with canned. We'll point you to a list of great low-carb choices that are gently to your wallet.

2 - home testing. Nothing will make you feel like you have some sort of control over this illness as much as home testing will. It seems hard and scary at first, but it isn't hard, and once you do it a few times, it isn't scary. We'll point you to low cost meters, strips, lancets, everything you'll need to do-it-yourself.

3 -home treatments. You're already doing shots at home. The issue is that you are doing so sort of "blind" if you aren't checking blood glucose at home. That can be scary, and can be dangerous for Lucy. You mentioned a starting dose of 2 units, twice a day (BID). That might be higher than you need, especially if you get her on a low-carb diet. However, if you can tell us what her BG numbers were at the vet, and what they were when Lucy came home, we can better assess the dosage.

OK, I'm going to let someone else chime in. I'll post more later.

Again, welcome. You've found an amazing site filled with incredible people. We'll all help you deal with this!

Carl in SC
 
Welcome to FDMB - we've all been in your shoes and want to reassure you that this will get easier.

Read and ask any questions that you have.

www.catinfo.org is excellent feline nutrition information published by a vet Dr. Lisa Pierson.

Both your cats should be changed to the same low carbohydrate, grain free canned or raw food diet. Dry food is bad for all cats.
It is ok to transition gradually if you need to, and Dr. Lisa gives some good tips.

Also -- if your cats are used to free feeding, you can still free feed -- the main thing is that your diabetic does need to eat a few teaspoons at shot time (an ounce or so is ok).

I transitioned my 4 cats to low carb canned food -- and all lost weight and their fur got nicer. Also - litterbox output reduced because they weren't eating as much undigestible crap.

In the beginning of treatment, many diabetic cats are starving - literally - because with inadequate insulin, the energy from the food is peed out in the urine and so that cat can eat-eat-eat and never get enough.
It is ok to give extra food at this time. As the insulin starts to kick in (usually within a few weeks) the kitty's appetite should go back to normal.

Learning to test blood sugar at home is the best way to manage your kitty's diabetes. Read the home testing tips and request a Newbie Kit. Watch the videos that are posted here. Many vets check blood sugar differently - drawing blood from a vein which is way too difficult for someone to do at home. We use a human glucometer and prick the edge of the ear for a tiny blood sample.

We record the results and post in a google spreadsheet.
 
123joan said:
I'm Joan, our 12-year-old cat Lucy was diagnosed six days ago with diabetes and urinary tract infection.

After reading this board for hours I see that the free-feeding dry food is probably the worst choice, however it was so easy with two cats. So now I'm feeling good and guilty about that. Plus Lucy is FAT; of course I'm feeling guilty about that too.

Now that feeding has been switched to twice daily, I think both cats are actually eating less. I have no idea, though, because I wasn't measuring before. I'm giving her a little of the canned food along with the dry, about a tablespoon. So now that she is eating less, are the 2 units too much?

Tonight after her injection, she seems very tired. She didn't finish the portion of food I gave her before the injection, but since she ate I gave her the regular dose. I've been reading about the symptoms of hypoglycemia, she isn't drunk or glazed-eyed, just tired. Coordinated, just wants to stay in her box. I'm worried because this is the first time her appetite has been really off.How will I ever be able to switch her to canned cat food and know how much she is eating and how much insulin she should have? I am frightened about all the decisions I have to make.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to touch on a couple things you said,
#1 - DO NOT beat yourself up about this. I felt the same guilt. Bob had free fed dry food his whole 11 years, and he weighed over 20 lbs. We thought he looked cute. I was ignorant, and there's no crime in that. But "fault". No, it just happens. Every cat I've ever had ate the same way. He's the only one that ever got diabetes. Don't blame yourself.
#2 - Let her eat all the wet food she wants. Kitties on insulin NEED to eat, especially if you are shooting without home testing first. Not enough food and the insulin will push her BG way down. Someone will probably come around and post this, so I'll say it. If you are not home-testing, then the 2 units is probably too much. Especially if she isn't eating much. I'm not trying to scare you, or cause doubt. But you should seriously think about home-testing asap. If you do that, you probably wouldn't even need to bring her to the vet for a curve. You can do it yourself just as well, and it will save you a bundle.
#3 - Lucy is just starting to deal with the treatments. She might act lazy and tired. But she's had a rough few days. Keep an eye on her for signs that there's a low-sugar problem. Also, read this. I read it every week or two to keep things in perspective:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33671

#4 - Don't waste the energy on self-doubt. You will be able to convert her to a proper diet. You will be able to figure out how much she has eaten. You will be able to figure out the proper dosage of insulin. You'll also have dozens of people here to help when you have questions, or if you're just having a crappy day. Or to share the positives with you too. So take a deep breath, read some, show Lucy how much you love her, and keep everyone posted.

Carl in SC
 
I will go to the vet tomorrow morning and pick up her lab results. As long as she eats an ounce or so at shot time that's enough? I can't believe I'm worried about Lucy's appetite.

Thank you for your help, it is a huge relief to be able to ask all these questions. I have a list going to ask our vet Tuesday, I've learned so much since finding this board yesterday.

I don't think I'll have a problem switching her (both of them) to canned food. What does a gradual change mean? Three days? Three weeks? Three months?

Where is the list of low-carb choices? I found Dr. Pierson's Commercial Canned Food Chart, is that the list you mentioned?

Thank you again.
 
Lucy weighs 13 pounds (!). She is eating much less now that I'm transitioning her food. I will give her just one unit this morning instead of two. She is so much better this morning she actually came upstairs and jumped on the bed to make us get up! First time in a week! After last night's downer. Still won't eat much, doesn't like the DM, I'm going cat food shopping this morning after getting her paperwork at the vet.
 
Welcome! Cedric was already eating canned and dry food when I changed the "type" - he used to eat all sorts of Fancy Feast varities and blue Buffalo weight control (saw a lady with it in petsmart yesterday and told her that it did NOT help him lose weight. she has a friend with a newly dx FD kitty so I told her about this site) dry. Switched him to Wellness, Evo and BB Wilderness (canned & dry, others are just canned). I also started giving him 4 small meals per day instead of 2. I finally took away the dry after reducing the amount from 1/2 cup 2x to 1/4 cup 2x, then I was going with 1/8 2x when I forgot to put it out one day, meant to just give him 1/8 in the am for him to nibble on while I was at work. that was 5/19 and if you look at his spsh below you will see what his BG numbers were on 5/19, then the drop on 5/20 & 5/21. may 21 was the last day he got insulin (Lantus). His number have been normal since. I try to test him every 3 days but couldn't get anything out of him last Thursday! He takes after me!

Home testing is very important. If you had diabetes, you would test your self before each shot. I got Cedric's meter at Wal Mart. It's the recion micro and runs aobut $9, with a box of 50 strips for $20. Walmart isn't the most convienent, but it's the cheapest.

Good luck with your Lucy!

PS: While I was heasitant to go back to Fancy Feast, I have bought a couple of classic styles on Janet & Binkey's list, and he's still getting normal BGs. FF is much cheaper than Wellness & Evo (and I have found some other grain free high protien low carbs that are on other lists in a local pet food store). Since I bought an autofeeder, Cedric gets either 1/4 of a 5.5 oz can 4 times a day, or if I open a 3 oz can, he'll get 1/2 of the can at each meal. He was just under 18 lbs in April at dx, we went to the vet friday to get his Feline Leuk. shot (see my thread on the community board :sad: ) and he is now just over 15 lbs!
 
Hello Ms. Lucy & Mommy Bean,
I think you are doing great and my Sugar Bean hated that script food, and the dry script is also not good for Lucy.

I got Bean switched to fancy feast and friskies per the Binky list.....She loves those...She has a petco brand Tuna Flakes for her treat during pokey poke time (testing). We have a special chair, towel and treat for that time...

I guess really the only thing I can add of super importance is testing before shooting... I will share my story:

Bean was DX mid April, brought home shooting 1 unit of PZI, back to vet 1 week later for curve, insulin adjusted to 2 units BID....
I never increase to that much because of this site and I was not HOME testing yet; however I did increase to 1.25..
I tried to test 2-3 times and we failed, Bean did not sit still, Mommy actually sucked at it really....
WE did learn...I shot her pm with 1.25, and +2 hours later, the test was a success! EXCEPT..... My Bean girl was 27!!!!!!
I spent 4+ hours with LORI (wonderful lady) and many many post from folks on here helping me bring those numbers back up....she got into the 40's and MOMMY went to bed...
My story is this: I PROMISED BEAN TO NEVER EVER SHOOT WITHOUT TESTING FIRST!
My Bean is now in remission (OTJ)....Her last shot on 5/24~~~~ Now we test every other day due to a new alien member (kitty about 9 wks old). I want to watch her numbers and make sure the new addition does not cause her to increase too much due to stress. Otherwise, we test once a week or so.

I am not sharing my story to scare you, but just to make you see that I did not think that not testing was going to harm her that much, she did not really care for it too much (at first, now she dont care at all), and mommy was very very scared.

And BTW.....you have found the best site ever!!!!
Goood luck, you will be great with Lucy, make the ajustments that are necessary for her and it will all not feel so new very quickly.
WELCOME!
 
doombuggy said:
FF is much cheaper than Wellness & Evo (and I have found some other grain free high protien low carbs that are on other lists in a local pet food store)
Click to expand...

I actually found EVO 95% to be cheaper than FF if you get it in the 13oz cans. My local pet food store has it for 1.75 a can for 95% Beef, & 95% Turkey & Chicken, which is 13 cents per oz vs 18 cents per oz for Fancy Feast. Plus, it's higher in calories so you feed less--Bandit needs 7.5oz of Fancy Feast a day but only 6oz of EVO.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
doombuggy said:
FF is much cheaper than Wellness & Evo (and I have found some other grain free high protien low carbs that are on other lists in a local pet food store)
Click to expand...

I actually found EVO 95% to be cheaper than FF if you get it in the 13oz cans. My local pet food store has it for 1.75 a can for 95% Beef, & 95% Turkey & Chicken, which is 13 cents per oz vs 18 cents per oz for Fancy Feast. Plus, it's higher in calories so you feed less--Bandit needs 7.5oz of Fancy Feast a day but only 6oz of EVO.
Click to expand...

Cedric will eat the turkey & chicken, but none of the others. I do buy that at Pet Supermarket and I want to say that the 5.5oz can is $1.59. for whatever reason, he is real;ly turning up his nose at all Wilderness, so the stray cat has been getting that. Today Cedric turned his nose up at some fish concoction (I forget the brand name, but it's expensive and new to us), so the stray cat got a 3oz can of fish stuff this am!
 
Just finished reading the 10 Good Reasons NOT to change that diet Just Yet! and now I'm stopped in my tracks. I haven't learned how to test at home yet. She goes in for glucose curve tomorrow. I don't know what to do. Feels like we're all over the place. She has loose stools now (just one a day) don't know if it's from clavamox for urinary tract infection or from me messing with her food. I cannot BELIEVE how I'm just pouring this out. TRUE CONFESSIONS OF THE LUCY LOVER. Vet suggested FortiFlora probiotics.
 
Lucy's initial readings
Last Tuesday (one week ago, day o' diagnosis)
Glucose 671
Three hours later after 2units prozinc
Glucose 381

For the past week, 2 units prozinc twice a day.
Today at vet, in for glucose curve, her reading was
Glucose 58 (I gave her 2 units two hours before the reading)

they gave me one demo with the glucose meter, I will do the test this afternoon when I pick her up.
I have lots more questions about food. Should I ask them in this thread or start a new one? I am brand new to message boards and am unsure about quotes, threads, and preferred protocol. What a wonderful resource I've found here. Moral Support, guidance, and information I am so grateful.
 
I hope they are testing and watching her closely at the vets......a reading of 58 is basically a non-diabetic number and you had already given her 2 units of Prozinc before the reading. Maybe call them and verify that they are watching her and testing her to make sure she doesn't hypo.
 
Yea, that is quite a drop in 2 hours. Not to mention vet stress usually causes higher bg's. Please keep us posted.
nailbite_smile
 
I'm on the phone with the vet right now. It went down to 40, now it's up to 109. I am picking her up in two hours, and I'm supposed to learn how to check her level at that time.
 
Great, so they did keep an eye on her.
You're going to find out when they show you that it isn't a huge problem home-testing. It'll stress you out maybe the first few times, but not for long. It won't hurt her near as much as you think it does. When people see blood they can think "OMG, what have I done, I made my poor baby bleed!!!" Give her lots of love and a treat when you get her back home. She's had a stressful day, along with you.

Carl
 
We are on a roller coaster, that's for sure. I picked up Lucy after the glucose curve late yesterday afternoon. Our vet came into the room to describe what went on with Lucy during the glucose curve. She was almost laughing, she was so cheerful and upbeat. She thinks Lucy is not diabetic at this time, she is perhaps transient diabetic (?). They were worried that her glucose level fell so low. We did change her diet from 100% Purina Pro dry food (which she gobbled up all day) to a mixture of dry Purina DM (which she did not like) and wet canned food during the week that she began the 2units ProZinc. By the fourth day she wouldn't eat the dry food, so it was all canned.

Following are the results of the glucose curve:
She ate two tablespoons of canned cat food at 6:30 am, I gave her 2 units of ProZinc, then off to the vet.
8:15 am 58
10:30 am 40—Fed Nutri-Cal
12:40 pm 109
2:40 pm 90
4:50 pm 311 (when I was in the room and she was being discharged)

Vet wants me to keep her on the canned food diet. She goes back in a week for urine check (has urinary tract infection), 2 weeks clavimox will be finished then, and they will check glucose again...maybe not all day but I can't remember what she said about that. I'm to bring in her insulin.

I am a little worried about the 311, but they said that could have been because of the stress situation and the Nutri-Cal. They ordered a glucose meter for me, it should be in today.

I went shopping for cat food yesterday and found a variety from Binky's list that she actually likes (that Purina DM didn't go over with either of our cats).

She said that Lucy might require insulin in a week, or a month, or three months, or a year or maybe never. Perhaps the food was enough to change her but that seems like an out and out miracle. Or too good to be true.

I know I'm going to try to test her before she goes back next Tuesday. Give me patience and perseverance!
 
Wishing you both (patience and perseverance) and all good thoughts! When you're new to home testing it can be nerve wracking at first, but there are so many wonderful threads here and links to videos, not to mention live support. You can do this and your furry baby will thank you (and you will be rewarded by her increased good health!!)!
 
Here I am a home tester! I cannot believe how patient she is, and it went so well today (just my second successful test but I've got it down). Still haven't given insulin for almost five days. Her glucose level this afternoon was 54. Is that too low? I am a little worried that she's not eating enough (though she is FAT! 13 pounds). Of course she will feel better when she loses some weight, but she isn't eating very much. Just about one can of Fancy Feast a day (spread over the day). She would eat more if I fed the fish flavors, but I see that I'm supposed to stay away from those. Went to the big city pet store yesterday and bought some Innova Evo Cat and Kitten Turkey and Chicken formula. She gobbled down one tablespoon of that this morning, and looked for more. Should I stay away from that dry food and just stick to the canned even though I think she isn't eating enough? And not use the dry as a crutch? I just don't know. And I think she'd eat more if I gave her more of the Fancy Feast fish/seafood varieties. I am obsessing about this and thank you for your patience! She is feeling good, walking around, purring, going up and downstairs, scratching on the scratching box, enjoying catnip, and I'm not in the dark about her glucose level. I can't thank all of you enough for making me see the importance of having that tool to use.
 
Joan,
Such good news! 5 days, no shots? Awesome. GO LUCY!

The 54 is not "too" low considering she's not getting insulin. That means it isn't the insulin pushing her down. Her body is at the point, apparently, where her pancreas is doing its job. And remember, the testers aren't perfect. There is a margin of error to the readings. She could be in the 60s with a reading of 54. If you aren't seeing physical signs that her sugar is too low, she's okay I think.

FF fish varieties. Is there a special reason why she needs to stay away from them? I mean some other condition that makes it really bad for her in particular? In general, you don't want her eating nothing but those, but an occasional seafood flavor, providing the carbs are low (I think actually the seafood ones are usually 5% or less?) is okay. Bob gets one of the fish flavors every 5th meal or so. He loves them as well. In moderation, the fish/seafood flavors should be good to use, providing as I said, that she doesn't have a specific condition where she can't eat or tolorate them.

Carl
 
Isn't it awesome? Fabulous. I still can hardly believe it.
The only reason I'm trying to stay away from the fish varieties is because everyone is warning against feeding fish because of mercury.
 
I understand the mercury concern. Just like humans should stay away from too much fish for the same reason, some types of fish are worse than others. That's why they have size limits on some fish here, because the bigger/older the fish, the more mercury it will have absorbed.
What I do not know is if the concern about mercury is even greater with kitties, especially sugarcats. I'm hoping someone will post that says fish in occasional meals is okay to do, since Lucy is a big fan.

Carl
 
Oh my - Ms. Ms. Ms. Lucy..... you go girl!!!! What a gooood mommy bean you have! :RAHCAT
Congrats to mommyBean! - You home tester you!

I have a spreadsheet that I just updated this a.m....Please take a look and see, my Sugar Bean stays in the 40 - 70ish....scares me but is without insulin and she was only on insulin for 40 days I think...spreadsheet will tell more! - GO BEAN GO!!! OTJ! dancing_cat

I basically just changed her food! Isnt that wonderful!!!!!! She gets the items on Binkys list - 10 carbs or under....mostly fancy feast - all kinds.

All of my girls on on this seafood kick....I am adding tuna water (extra water added to the tuna) to the f. feast......We have a new alien in the furry family (LIL SISTA) and all furry members have their panties in a wad, and are having some issues with eating (Bean).....So, I have been adding the water to her food, a small dab of tuna as well...figure the mercury has got to be less harmful right now than her not eating. She also enjoys (right now) the boiled chicken that I had in the freezer...

Just wanted to say congrats and I hope it stays this way for you and of course LUCY!
 
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