I'm New and Confused!

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Kimmied

Kimmied

Member Since 2014
My grandkitty, Hank, was diagnosed 8/1/14. My 26 year old son has 2 other cats and 2 dogs. He works a lot too. After another high count at the vets office, my husband and I asked again if we could take care of Hank at our house. We've only had Hank for 3 days, took him camping over the weekend, practiced checking his BG on his ear (only getting 2 checks), many UTube videos and think I'm calling the vet tomorrow morning!!
My first concern is feeding. Hank doesn't like wet food. I've tried 3 different kinds now and he won't touch it. I have him on Iams dry food now. Any suggestions on how or what kind of wet food to try? What if he just won't eat any wet food, then what do I do?
Then I've been giving him injections in the scruff which I read is wrong place. So did he get insulin? I'm not sure when or how much I should be feeding him. I'm giving him a snack mid morning and before I go to bed of his dry food to tie him over until his morning shot. Help!

Thanks,
Kimmied
 
Hi Kimmied,

I feed Jack and Samantha Purina DM Wet, the pate. Also recommended here are the Fancy Feast and Friskies Pate's. The key is to get something 10% or less carbs.

I have seen mentioned here, Young Again Zero Carb Dry food. It is about the only dry food low enough to pass muster here. The Purina DM Dry is 18% (got a full bag that is going to be donated)and the Evo is around 12% which I was going to try but I decided that only wet for these 2 kitties.

I feel for you if Hank wont eat wet food. I am not sure what I would do. I have read that some people sprinkle parmesan cheese on it. I don't know, I have never had this problem. They both eat the Purina DM the same as they did all the other wet food they have ever had.

Taking the BG test does get easier in time. Jack was so sick he let me do whatever I needed to do. As he got better he got feisty but still lets me do it because he knows there is a treat coming. Freeze dried treats are the best. Jack is/was finicky but finally found the wild salmon he will eat.

Do you have questions about taking the BG test from the ear? There are many videos on Youtube and the ones I have seen are pretty much spot on with what I do. The key is to warm the ear to get the blood flowing so you can get a good sample. Some people use Rice in a baby sock and microwave it. I happen to have a bean bag that goes to a heat wrap that I microwave.

Having 2 kitties to monitor has given me the experience to know what works and what doesn't. Samantha has never been one to let me clip her nails or really groom her (I have scars to prove it, but she has gotten the message that we will be here till we get a test. She grumbles but she does did a treat and great praise when it is over.

All the best,
Kevin
 
We were all new and confused! :mrgreen: everyone who answers your post is paying it forward for the help they received in the beginning.

This vet has some great ideas for transitioning from dry to wet: www.catinfo.org. One of her tips is to try FortiFlora. It works beautifully for some cats. It has the animal digest in dry food that makes it irresistible. you can get it on line or sometimes from your vet (it is also used as a probiotic)

Shooting in the scruff is okay. Some people shoot in the flank; some vary the location. Individual and cat preference.

What insulin are you using? What dose?
 
Hi Kimmied,

There's great advice available at Dr Lisa Pierson's website including great tips for transitioning dry food addicts to wet food plus lots of other great information and advice on cat health and nutrition. My Saoirse used to be a kibble junky but now she's very happy on wet, low carb food and looks better than she has done in years.

Given that Hank has already started his insulin treatment, you should not transition to low carbohydrate wet food until you are home testing because even a gradual switchover may significantly lower Hank's blood glucose levels and hence reduce his insulin requirements. Hank may need to have his insulin dose reduced as part of the transition because the dose he needs when eating the Iams could be too high for a wet low-carb diet.

Home testing before attempting a wet food transition would give you valuable information about how his body uses the insulin. Then, if you do choose to try moving Hank to wet food, your home tests would help keep Hank safe because you'd know better whether his insulin dose needs to be adjusted. I'd recommend discussing any proposed diet changes with your vets.
 
Thank you Kevin, Sue and Crittermom,
Hank is on Novolin N insulin, twice a day, 4 units in morning and 3 units in evening. This has already (per the vet) been adjusted from 5 units twice a day. The reason is that Hank is no longer free-feeding as he was at my sons house.
I did find Lisa Pierson's article on transitioning from dry to wet last night after I posted the question. I haven't read it all yet. I was up til midnight reading what else she has written on the site catinfo.org. I do understand the danger in switching and home monitoring. I'm just not that good at getting a blood spot, yet. I'm not giving up!! I'm lucky that Hank isn't minding all the fuss with his ears. Right now the vet is wanting to see Hank once a week to check BG or if I can do it, I can check 4-5 hours after his injection and call it in to him and he will adjust accordingly. I'm going to make a rice sock today too. I'm trying not to let this overwhelm me but it's hard!! I have a 5 year old cat of my own named Oscar who also doesn't like wet food. After what I've read so far, I'm going to switch him to wet food also. So Hank and Oscar are also trying to get used to each other and both are no longer free-feeding (which is driving Oscar crazy). Ohhhhh, any and all hints, ideas or posts are greatly appreciated!! Pray for me and Hank that this will get easier!

Thank you again. This website is a blessing!

Kimmied
 
hi Kimmied and Hank,

This is what I just posted about testing in another thread, hope it helps. ''What I do is to use the warm rice sock, hold the rice sock against the inside of the ear,with my thumb on the outside of the ear to keep it as taught as possible, then lance so the ear is 'sandwiched' between the sock and the lancing device. If Angel has some low carb treats he's usually still enough for me to manage. Although it's still not my favourite thing to do, I know it doesn't hurt him, and I make sure I'm chilled when i do it even if I don't get blood first time.'' With the wet food issue, maybe try putting a few low carb treats on top of the bowl.x
 
Hi Kimmied,

It's really overwhelming at the start. I promise you it does get easier. It used to take me nearly an hour to get through the test-feed-inject bit, but now it takes me less than 10 minutes (including measuring out and warming Saoirse's food). You'll find your own routine, and soon it will become second nature. :smile:

One thing that I didn't understand well when I started home testing was the ear warming. I use a plastic test tube containing warm water instead of a rice sock, but I think the same things might apply. I was very worried that I might put something too hot onto Saoirse's ear so I didn't warm the water up quite enough. Also, I didn't warm the ear for long enough. When I warmed the water a little more and warmed my little Munchkin's ear a good bit longer I had much better success (and Saoirse had tidier ears ... :oops: ) Are you using a little film of Vaseline spread over the test site to help the blood sample bead up?

Once you have been testing for a while, Hank's ears will grow more capillaries in the test area and they will produce blood drops more readily.

As well as moving Saoirse to wet low-carb food, I moved my Lúnasa (my civvie) onto it as well. She's much better hydrated, her fur is softer and she's more cheerful in herself since changing.
 
I'm a little concerned that I can feel Hanks backbone. He has lost weight before being diagnosed with diabetes. He's still not wanting the wet food. I'm feeding him the dry food, Iams, that my cat, Oscar has been on. But not free-feeding anymore. Should I switch his dry food to EVO, get meat baby food? Hank weighs a little over 12lbs. now. I think at one point years ago he was over 16lbs. Maybe he's losing muscle mass? I think the last time he went to the vet he'd gained a couple ounces. I don't know what to do first! Too much info I'm reading maybe. I really want to get both cats on the wet food. Hank being diabetic...I need to master home testing first I guess. Any suggestions?

Kimmied
 
I'd master the home testing first. Once you are confident you can get a test when you need it, then change the food, a little at a time, if necessary. He does need to eat, especially with N which is a harsher insulin.

What is difficult about the testing? We all have tips that helped us. Mine are to heat the ear till it is nice and warm. And use the larger gauge lancet - 25 to 27 gauge.

Then maybe start with 1/3 wet, 2/3 dry, burying the dry in the wet so he has to hunt for it. Or dress the wet with the dry crumbled on top. Some cats don't like the pate texture but like it mixed with warm water to make a gravy.
 
Kimmied said:
I'm a little concerned that I can feel Hanks backbone. He has lost weight ... Maybe he's losing muscle mass?
Click to expand...

With the diabetes, Hank won't have been able to use the nutrients from his food properly. If you haven't already done so, it'd be a good idea to get his B12 and folate levels checked. If the B12 is low, he could then get a course of B12 supplementation. Saoirse is having a course and it has helped her very much. She had very thin hips and some muscle wastage in her abdomen. Between the insulin helping her body to use food properly and the B12 injections, she has regained the weight she lost and her body condition is very good now (and so is her coat).
 
Hi Kimmied and Hank,

I can feel Jacks backbone as well. He was 13.1 lbs. prior to the diabetes.

He weighed 8.8 when I brought him in and now weighs 9.3.

This is a better weight for him. They had told me at 13 he was fat, I didn't agree as I said, No Samantha at 20 lbs is fat...But in all fairness to her, she is big boned...LOL Jack is smaller, so I think 10 is maybe is his top weight.

I am not sure if the muscle mass will, in time, get back to a more normal state. It made me feel real bad when I felt the backbone. Diabetes is a serious disease. His wobbly walking made me cry. He is walking much better as his numbers are in control and I do give him Zobaline (B12) tablet. I have no way of telling if it is doing any more than getting his numbers down from 600 to the 100's but like I told the vet, If it helps him get better 10 minutes earlier, than I will do it.

I wish you Pluck (Persistence and Luck) with the testing. Looking back at it, for me, it wasn't that hard to pick up. When Jack was diagnosed, well lemme tell ya, I wasn't at all comfortable that I could do it.

I had bought he Neosporin crème before I realized the ointment would be better for getting the blood into a droplet, rather that running through the hair. I bought some ointment today and will see if it makes a difference come test time.

Take care,
Kevin
 
I'm using the One Touch mini meter. It does take small lancets. The times that I do get a blood spot, I get Error 5 on my meter. I got 3 errors in a row yesterday and today! I am having better luck getting a blood spot but then my meter has turned off or by the time I push the strip in the blood is gone. Argh!! That's why it's frustrating. Then I call the vet with his number of 383 yesterday and he said that he probably was high cause Hank got stressed. Argh again! I was thrilled that I could do it!
I will ask about Hank's B12 level next time I see the vet. Thank you. Yeah, his coat isn't the best looking...dandruff and no shine.

Thank you all,
Kimmied
 
The tatty coat's one of the hallmark clinical signs of the diabetes.

Fingers crossed you'll be able to do the wet food transition. That helps with coat condition too (both Saoirse and my civvie, Lúnasa both have much softer coats now :smile: ).
 
If you can't get the larger lancets, you can double poke - a quick second poke in the same spot. And you can get the drop on your fingernail and test from there.
 
Ok, I've been taking care of Hank now for 9 days. I moved to Lifescan One Touch with ultrasoft lancet (28 gauge) meter and am now getting blood on first try, most of the time. I'm suppose to call the vet back on Monday or Tuesday with some test numbers. Soooooo, I think I'm ready to do a curve or mini-curve. Is there a chart for both these? Instructions on how to do this?
We took him again this weekend to our campsite and he was all over the camper! Not sure if he's feeling better, just more comfortable or both. I think he likes camping.
Oh, also about the vile of insulin. Do I use it till it's empty since I am keeping it refrigerated? It has an expiration of sometime in 2016 on bottle if not opened. I've heard contradictory answers. Sorry, just don't know. Thank you again for all help. I'm feeling not as overwhelmed.

Kimmied
 
A curve is nothing more than testing every 2 hours from pre-shot to pre-shot. We've got a nifty color coded spreadsheet you can use to record your numbers. Instructions are here.

Refrigerated, insulin may last as much as 6 months. If you observe less effectiveness, you may be due for a new vial.

Could we get you to update your signature a bit?
Go to the top left of the screen.
Click on User Control Panel.
Click on Profile
Click on Edit Signature
A test box displays.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up,
Add any other text, such as
your name, cat's name,
city and state,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like food issues, allergies, IBD, etc.
 
Kimmied said:
... Hank is on Novolin N insulin, twice a day, 4 units in morning and 3 units in evening....
Click to expand...

You may find that when you do the curve, the lowest glucose is somewhere around +9 to +4 hours after insulin was given. This is common with NPH insulin (Humlin or Novolin). Good control may require dosing about every 8 hours.

And speaking of low numbers, here is a set of instructions on managing a hypoglycemic episode.

Also, always feed about 30 minutes before you give Novolin. A primer for optimally using the Humulin/Novolin insulin is here.
 
Thank you BJM. I will update signature info. This is all new to me and I'm trying to figure out this website. I will post spread sheet as soon as I get it up. Thank you for your help.
 
It does take a bit of getting used to. The signature and profile will help folks give you feedback.
 
Argh! I must have done something wrong with publishing Hank's SS. I tried clicking on it, nothing. :( I'm not computer savvy. I wanted it to be just Hank's SS instead of all the numbers and letters but couldn't figure it out. Any suggestions? Easy directions please. Thanks.

Kimmie
 
Hi zzyzzx,
Ok, I looked at the link. Which kind did you get? Hank's vet doesn't want me to switch his food right now. I also have concerns about 0 carb food and insulin use beings I am new at testing too. Comments? What do you think?

Kimmie
 
[urlhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoqbX03OyU3hdG1rNUo0TlBOb3Z1aWwyd2hQTFBienc#gid=0][/url] is what you have. Go back to your signature and change to this:

You want this in front and you can put Hank's SS
 
There it is! Good job getting it up.

The numbers look encouraging today. Wonder what that amps was? It will be interesting to see how long the insulin lasts. It usually is gone by 6-8 hours. Hopefully he will have a longer cycle.

How is the wet food coming? Is he more interested?
 
Hank did real well over the weekend at camp again. On Friday the vet emailed and wanted me to bump up 1 unit (from 5u. to 6u.). I wasn't sure if he wanted pm dose also at 6u. so I have kept it at 5u. since at +3hrs he's in the 200's. I'm afraid of him going too low during the night. Hank did well on Saturday at the new dosage except for that 59 at +6. I panicked and gave him 8 little high carb treats. I didn't know how many to give. What should I do when that happens again? Sunday's numbers aren't very good. He was very hungry this morning so didn't get AMPS number. I fed him his 1/2 c. dry and he ate it all within 15 min. Hmmm, this usually doesn't happen. It usually takes about an hour for Hank to eat 1/2c. dry. So I feed him at 5:30am/pm and give him his injection at 6:30am/pm. So this morning I gave him a little more dry to eat while I gave him his shot. Then we had a 40 min. drive home which he meows in his carrier all the way home. That probably hasn't helped the numbers either.I've been having a little trouble giving his injections lately cause I can't seem to be able to get some skin to pull up and then when I stick the needle in he's moving a little and looking back. So now I feel anxious about hurting him. Am I doing something wrong? I do switch injection sites; Am is on left side and pm is on the right side. And yes, he's drinking. Guess I'll call the vet tomorrow about my concerns but what do you think? Thanks.

Kimmied
 
Thanks Sue for your help on getting SS up. I haven't tried anymore wet food with him lately. My vet wants to get him regulated so he keeps telling me not to change his food. I have told him that I want to get Hank on wet food. I wish I would've known all this stuff before Hank started insulin. I would've changed his food first. Argh!! I'm getting much better at testing so probably should wait to switch the food.

Kimmied
 
What should I do about changing Hank's food? He has no interest right now with the wet cause I'm giving it to my kitty, Oscar. Hank isn't even smelling it. Should I talk to my vet again and tell him that I want to try to get him eating wet food?

Kimmied
 
What dry food are you feeding? Likely you can find a lower-carb dry food.
Also if he is still eating the dry, mix just a little wet with the dry and slowly increase the amount of wet/decrease the amount of dry.
 
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