I need help :(

Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PattiMcG17

Member Since 2016
Hi everyone,
I don't think I'm doing right by my kitty. I don't know what I'm doing.

My first question has to do with her Vetsulin. How much do I give? Where do I start? I was giving half a unit twice a day and her BG was good! Now it's maintains around 250 which is high :(

2nd - I feed her A LOT. She's at least 15 years old and lost two pounds due to the diabetes. She also has CKD - stage 2 I would say. I want her to gain weight back! Is me feeding her all the time ruining her chance at gaining weight back? Do I need to put her on a schedule? It's just that if I don't feed her every few hours she throws up bile from being hungry.

Last question - what should her blood glucose range be? According to the Vetsulin website, a diabetics acceptable range is actually higher than a non diabetic. They said to aim for 150-300 the majority of the day.

I just want her to get better. She's my best friend :(. Thanks so much for your help!!

Patti
 
Hi Patty!

First off, you ARE doing right by your kittie! You care enough to come here looking for help, and that says a lot! What's her name, by the way?

PattiMcG17 said:
My first question has to do with her Vetsulin. How much do I give? Where do I start? I was giving half a unit twice a day and her BG was good! Now it's maintains around 250 which is high :(
Click to expand...
It's not unusual to have periodic dose adjustments. Insulin is a hormone, not a medication, and the body's needs change from day to day and over time. Are you home testing?
PattiMcG17 said:
2nd - I feed her A LOT. She's at least 15 years old and lost two pounds due to the diabetes. She also has CKD - stage 2 I would say. I want her to gain weight back! Is me feeding her all the time ruining her chance at gaining weight back? Do I need to put her on a schedule? It's just that if I don't feed her every few hours she throws up bile from being hungry.
Click to expand...
The bile is most likely acid from an empty tummy. Some kitties do well with Pepcid (ask your vet first).
If she needs to gain weight, you'll want to feed at least 1.5x her daily calorie needs, which is figured from current or ideal weight.
PattiMcG17 said:
Last question - what should her blood glucose range be? According to the Vetsulin website, a diabetics acceptable range is actually higher than a non diabetic. They said to aim for 150-300 the majority of the day.
Click to expand...
That's about right for Vetsulin. Due to the nature of the insulin it's not recommended to let the kitty go too much below 100. Renal threshold (where glucose spills into urine and damage to organs occur) is anywhere between 180-300, depending on the particular cat. Some caregivers use glucose strips to test urine, and then have a rough estimate of where their cat's renal threshold is.
 
The first goal is regulation. We generally think that is preshots in the mid 200s and low points in double digits (although not below 50 on a human meter and 68 on a pet meter are approaching hypo range and lower than you want) with Vetsulin, it is important to know the onset (how fast the insulin starts starts to work) and the nadir (the lowest point of f the cycle). Tests in the 2/3 hours after the shot and then 4/6 hour range should help you figure this out. Tests in the 8/10 range will let you see how long the insulin is lasting - how soon it starts to rise.

Lots of people divide up the food into smaller, more frequent meals. Not only do they think that is helpful for the pancreas, it may help her feel less hungry. Also, adding some warm water to the pates and making a soupy mixture will help her feel full and hydrated.

I'd get some tests to help you see how the insulin is working so you can work wit it. Also, setting up a spreadsheet would be helpful for you, your vet and us, when you need help and we need her history. The directions are here:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

It's tricky, so if you need help, just ask.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Lots of people divide up the food into smaller, more frequent meals.
Click to expand...
With Vetsulin, you need to make sure that your kitty gets about half of her 12-hour food allowance eaten 30 minutes before giving the Vetsulin to ensure there are enough carbs for the insulin to work on when it kicks in. If you take the rest of the 12-hour portion, give half of it at +3 hours after the injection, then 1/4 of it +6 hours after the injection and the final 1/4 + 9 hours after the injection. That should keep food in her tum and deliver the carbs to her when the insulin is most active in her system. Before you implement this change be sure to learn to home test first. You need to make sure that the new feeding schedule won't take your kitty too low. Be sure to ask lots of questions, Patti. We'll do all we can to help you help your best pal. :bighug:


Mogs
.
 
So what should her ideal BG be? Max? Min? Her names is Maddie btw!

Also, do I need to feed her the same thing every day so that I can tell if her insulin is working?

The problem is she's a nibbler and doesn't finish a meal. She also doesn't have any teeth which makes it difficult. It's so hard to calculate how many calories she's eating. Any tips?

Thanks so much for your help!!!

Patti :)
 
With a human meter when on insulin you do not want the BG to fall below about 60.
You want the max, which is typically right before shot (but can be an hour after eating and shot) to be below 200.
You want to feed about the same amount and of the same carb content since BG are effected by the amount of carbs in the food.
If you do not have other animals that will finish the food you can just leave it out. I can't do that since my other cats and dog would eat it.
Just try to feed the same about every day and periodically weigh Maddie and increase/decrease depending upon what yo want to happen with here weight.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
periodically weigh Maddie
Click to expand...
A reasonably-priced digital baby scale like the one below is a great help for monitoring a kitty's weight.

31rkuRv4hwL.jpg


Found the above on amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.com/HOMEIMAGE-Digital-Scale-Infants-Pets/dp/B005OKPSMG/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20


Mogs
.
 
All of this can seem overwhelming at first. The value of the home BG testing and recording those BG numbers in a spreadsheet was very important to me. An acronym used on this board is ECID or Every Cat Is Different. The act of taking blood glucose measurements and recording them will put you in touch with your cats BG levels, and how Maddie reacts to changes you or your vet may decide make in her food or her medicine. One generalized rule for diabetes with regard to diet is carbohydrate restriction, or lowering or eliminating dietary carbs. The AAHA diabetes treatment guidelines says that an optimum feline BG is 80-150 mg/dL. They are not the last word on the subject by any means.
 
PattiMcG17 said:
So what should her ideal BG be? Max? Min? Her names is Maddie btw!

Also, do I need to feed her the same thing every day so that I can tell if her insulin is working?

The problem is she's a nibbler and doesn't finish a meal. She also doesn't have any teeth which makes it difficult. It's so hard to calculate how many calories she's eating. Any tips?

Thanks so much for your help!!!

Patti :)
Click to expand...

Use a scale; weigh the meal before you put it down using a kitchen scale and weigh it when you pick it up. The amount of change is the amount eaten.

I feed the same type of food but not the exact same. Low Carb wet food with some dry young again available. I keep the wet under 5% carbs and don't sweat if it is 2% or 4%.
 
Hi Patti,
I see your kitty is in CRF-- I completely understand your frustration...
Is your kitty getting sub Q fluids at home?
I have 2 that get fluids-
1 was DX 6 years ago in early stages (about where you are at ) and 6 years later he is just about 17 years old -(he does not have FD --)

My 16 year old Drevon does have FD DX in September and he now gets fluids daily--

It can make a world of difference and greatly slow the disease.....

If you are not giving fluids it may be a good conversation to have with yo vet.
Many people in this forum give fluids on a regular basis-water does amazing things especially for a kitty:cat: including appetite-mobility-flushing toxins-unless your kitty has a heart issue or some reason your vet thinks the fluids would not be tolerated there is really no down side-

Just for your peace of mind--you do not have to spend a fortune getting them at your vet
a case of 12 lactated ringer 80$ from walgreens (need script from vet)
lines and needles from KV vet supply (other places as well-
The vet will probably charge 25-35 for 1 bag of lactated ringer:confused:
Your doing great.... trying not to overwhelm you but want you to have information you may not have:bighug:
 
Critter Mom said:
A reasonably-priced digital baby scale like the one below is a great help for monitoring a kitty's weight.
Click to expand...

Isn't it going to be a lot easier and cheaper just to pick up your cat and step on your human scale, then weigh yourself again without out the cat and do the math?
 
Hi Pattie. How much Vetsulin are you giving Maddie now? What dosage did your vet suggest? If you can manage to set up the spreadsheet we use it would be a really great help to you, and to us to better be able to help you. Are you home testing? If so, how often and when are you testing her? What type)s) of food is she currently eating?

Sorry for all the questions but the more information we have the better we can help.
 
Thank you all so so so much. Your advice is invaluable to me. I love my kitty's vet but I literally got no help from her. I don't think many vets are
knowledgeable about diabetes. Or as knowledgeable as they should be!!

I just want Maddie's BG to improve, for her to gain weight, and for her fur to get back to normal.

Oh and Maddie does get fluids for the CKD. I may increase the frequency of the fluids though. Right now she gets it ever three days.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!

Patti :)
 
zzyzzx said:
Isn't it going to be a lot easier and cheaper just to pick up your cat and step on your human scale, then weigh yourself again without out the cat and do the math?
Click to expand...
The subtraction method using a human scale is very crude. It would not have anything like the same accuracy.


Mogs
.
 
So right now Maddie is in half a unit twice a day. I test her a few times a day.

When she was first diagnosed, I was bringing her to the vet every day for a BG level. Her sugar was still terrible so we were literally increasing her dose by one unit every time. This was when she was still eating her K/D for her kidney failure. Very high carb. I finally got a meter to test at home (alphatrak) and changed her diet to low carb. She's currently eating Weruva, Wellness, and Max Cat - all the low carb, lower phosphorus foods. I'm conceited these foods will make her kidney disease progress faster though because the phosphorus isn't as low as her rx diet was.

I just want her to get back as close to "normal" as possible.

Thank you so much for your help.
 
@PattiMcG17 -

There is a very comprehensive and well-researched site about everything to do with feline CKD called Tanya's Site. Here's the link:

http://www.felinecrf.org/

There is a support group connected to the site as well. You'll find a link in the left hand column of Tanya's Site's home page. You can get advice there about diet, phosphorus binders, etc.



Mogs
.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top