hypo

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sophiealix

Member Since 2013
hi guys im new to this website so hi and you will have to bare with me as im getting used to how it works lol!

just a quick question, my cat has been diabetic for 6 months now, shes about 14 but shes not an old 14, she was diagnosed after we knew she had a water infection.

anyway to cut a long story short she has had one severe hypo attack where she had to be admitted to the vets but luckliy she is still here, however after our last visit to the vet i was not convinced that the vet had sent off the blood test since then we have still be adminstering the same dose as always, however she know only wants to eat ham or tuna striaght out of the can, human food basically, does anyone else have this problem???

tonight she also started twitching pretty bad and was circling and didnt look like she knew what was going on, i have put about a teaspoon of sugar in her mouth and she has eaten and looks a bit better and has washed her face,

however before i go back to the vets again tomorrow and spend another small fortune that i dont really have, does anyone think that maybe she is on too high of a dosage and maybe its because she doesnt need it as much as she used to?
 
We can teach you how to test her blood sugar at home. Then you will know whether the dose you are palnning to give is safe and how the insulin is working.

People food is not good. It's missing vitamins and minerals she needs. What foods have you tried?
 
What insulin is she getting and how much? And what food were you feeding before?

Give us the long story.. We need details to help you better..
 
Hi, I'm a newbie here too, but I just wanted to chime in and mention that you'll still need to keep monitoring your kitty, because the sugar you gave her made her feel ok FOR RIGHT NOW..... it will get used up fairly rapidly and she could still go too low, and canned ham or tuna are probably not going to help her out of a low sugar crisis. (imo these items are best kept as treats, not even close to a balanced diet, so much missing that they absolutely NEED)

There's a sticky here with invaluable information on how to handle hypo's, linked Here for your convenience.
 
thanks for getting back to me

she usually has kite kat which we buy here in Britian, im unsure if you guys will know it as i know its an american site, or sheeba. she has had no dry food in over a year.

the only trouble is my mom feels like she needs to give her the insulin after the vets advice but she doesnt seem to eat as much as she used to, so im feeding her tuna etc which i know is very bad but i fear she will go into hypo which has happened today.

i have just been reading some of the other posts and it seems a lot of you guys test at home, how easy is it? me and my mom are fine at giving her the shots but are a bit fearful about this (i know we are just being silly)

Im just worried that if i go to the vet tomorrow its going to cost me loads more money for them to test her to see if she needs a lesser dose, or wether she may be going into hypo because shes not eating, rather than the dose is to high
 
when she first got diagnosed it was because she had a urine infection, they started her off on caninsulin on half of line, each week we were going back and the vet upped the dose until we got to 2 lines. she was fine for about 3 months and then one day she hadnt really eaten that much but we had failed to notice. she went into severe hypo, had 3 fits, luckily my mom got her to the vet in time and was told 5 minutes later and she wouldnt have made it,

then the vet decided to leave her off the insuling for 3 weeks. she seemed fine. however she started to excessivly drink again so we took her back and the vet decided on 1 and half of a line on the syringe. we took her back for a few check ups and the vet said everything was fine. however she doesnt seem to be gaining any weight, shes probably loosing it, and now she doesnt want to eat her food, only ours.

and tonight she went into hypo.

I am keeping an eye on her at the moment, she is lying on me purring at the moment but she seems to be starring into space.
 
You probably need to get some more food into her, something with some carbs, maybe some gravy.

I have not yet seen anything good about using caninsulin for cats, do a search here, and in general on the web, it's a bad choice for kitties, if I were you I would contact my vet and ask for another type (Lantus/Levemir/Pzi/Prozinc seem to be the names I see mentioned favorably most often)
 
oh really? i have seen those mentioned quite a few times as ive had a quick look tonight, the vet did say something about the type of insulin we had works over a period of 24 hours or something along the lines of this, that its a slow working insulin, maybe this is why.

The only other thing is i just dont know how to get her to eat her own food, i'm at a loss when it comes to this
 
As I mentioned, you can use the tuna or ham as a 'garnish' on regular food, or mix a bit in if she's too good at picking the bits off the top.

And no, the problem with caninsulin for cats is that cats have a much faster body metabolism, so basically they burn thru the insulin quickly and then are left with none until the next shot.

ETA: catinfo.org has an amazing wealth of information regarding cats and their eating habits, I strongly recommend you visit and read thru some of the articles, I have had cats all my 47 years and I was boggled at how much I didn't know (still don't!)
 
It is a little tricky to learn to test, but can be done. If you want, let us know where you are in the UK and maybe we have someone who lives nearby. Here is a thread with lots of information on how to do it and what you need:

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287

I will try to get Elizabeth and Bertie to tell with food brands. This vet has great ideas for getting cats to eat wet food on her website: http://www.catinfo.org

Unfortunately most vets start out with Canninsulin in the UK. Elizabeth can tell you more about that; she has gotten ProZinc for her cat after some struggles.
 
can we get the testing kit from the vet or is it cheaper to buy somewhere else, this seems like a really good idea to me, i just dont want to go to the vet tomorrow and be ripped off (the vets we are at are notorious for this!)

thanks for all your help guys i really appreciate it
 
we are in Birmingham in the UK, I have tried mixing ham and tuna with food for weeks, unfortunatly she was spoilt with this when she was younger which is probably what lead to the diabetes! bad i know! but she has none of it.

this home testing thing sounds like a brilliant idea though, and now im thinking about asking the vet for a different insuling tomorrow.
 
UK members will know the best info, but I think the vets use Canninsulin until they can prove it doesn't work and then they are able to prescribe something else. But definitely ask. And we do have members who have gotten their cats regulated on Canninsulin, but it is harder.

Don't buy your hometesting supplies from the vet. It's cheaper from the stores. You can get a human glucometer - I just don't know the UK brands. Here is a general list of supplies needed:


A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. Some members stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. Some people think they are unreliable and read lower than other meters. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats


While you wait, you can get your kitty ready for testing.
First pick a place where you want to test. Some people use the kitchen counter, a blanket on the floor, between your legs while sitting – whatever works for you. Take the kitty there and give him/her lots of praise while you play with his/her ears. Give a treat and release. Next time, add the rice sack (thin sock filled with raw rice, heated in the microwave until very warm but not hot) or a prescription pill bottle filled with very warm water. Lots of praise, treat and release. Finally add the lancet so he/she will get used to the noise. The hope is that when you finally poke, they will be used to the process and know a treat is coming!
 
thanks she seems to be out of hypo now she has been perky for the past 2 hours but now shes sleeping but she has a little pertruding lump on her stomach, is that normal or am i just being paranoid?
 
Hi Sophiealix, from another British member!
What's your name?

I'm from Coventry originally, but now live in Dorking in Surrey.

Sounds like your kitty's having a bit of a rough time.

Can you take a pic of the lump for us? Has the vet checked it out?

About insulin - for us diabetic cat owners in the UK, we have no choice but to try caninsulin first. It was designed for dogs, and not for cats, but is the only licensed insulin for pet use in our little country. Cats have a faster metabolism, so it doesn't last as long in their system. It also drops their blood glucose (BG) very quickly, which can be upsetting to their system. If you can show the vet that the caninsulin isn't working for your cat, then they are permitted to prescribe insulin for human use via the 'cascade' system.

My cat was diagnosed in November 2012. He was put on Caninsulin, but he wasn't getting regulated & he crashed with ketoacidosis (he started digesting his own proteins to get the energy that he couldn't store from his food).

About hometesting: I learnt to hometest his blood (Elizabeth & Bertie on here taught me), change his diet to low carb canned food and I collected enough numbers to show the vet that the caninsulin wasn't working. I persuaded them to prescribe a longer lasting insulin (Hypurin Bovine PZI), and Milo became regulated & eventually went into remission.

I strongly recommend that you learn to hometest. It seems daunting & scary at first, but with practice & lots of kitty treats, it becomes second nature. You can buy monitors & test strips cheaply on Ebay. I use the Bayer Contour XT:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BAYER-CON...ity_Disability_Medical_ET&hash=item2c6e6e77e0, and buy the strips too: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150-BAYER...ity_Disability_Medical_ET&hash=item1e7a443729.

All you need to do is prick the kitty's ear, get a tiny drop of blood & let the meter & the strip do the numbers. Kitty gets some attention & a treat, and it doesn't hurt them. You get to find out whether they need insulin or not, and how much to give them, so hypos can be easily avoided.

If you want to learn, we are more than willing to help.

About food: Ideally your kitty needs 2-5% carbohydrate in their diet. Most people on here look for foods under 10% carbs as a guideline.

At the Supermarket:
HiLife Essentials – Petite Pate Turkey & Giblets 85g can – 9% dry matter carbs, at Morrisons, Wilkinsons and Asda
HiLife Essentials-Petite Pate Salmon Pate 85g can - 4.5% dry matter carbs, at Morrisons, Wilkinsons and Asda
Toplife Chicken Dinner-tetrapak – 8.3% dry matter carbs, made in conjunction with Bozita, at Asda
Waitrose Foil Tray Special Recipe-chicken/duck and salmon/duck – 3.9% dry matter carbs

Online:
Available from http://www.Zooplus.co.uk
Bozita, Chicken and Beef flavours 400g tin..........2.8%
Bozita tins, prawn.......1.7%
Schmusy Vollwertflakes ..... 7.62%
Schmusy Tuna tin 400g ...... 2.11%
Schmusy Sardines 400g tin ....... 4.32%

I buy my food online from germany at the moment, but a new UK company has started importing the decent german stuff (mostly less than 2% carbs - flavours WITHOUT rice: http://www.happykittycompany.co.uk/collections/cat-food/Macs

I hope that's not overwhelmed you with info! It's important to take things one step at a time rather than try & deal with everything at once, but you have found the right place with this forum. These people are amazing.

Juliet
 
(Edited to add: At the time of writing this and the following post I somehow missed Juliet's post (above). Apologies for any duplicated info....)

Hello from sunny Surrey!
And welcome to FDMB. :smile:

Can I just check that I've understood things correctly? Am I right in thinking that:
Your cat is 14 and was diagnosed with diabetes 6 months ago after a water infection (urinary tract infection?).
She is eating mainly 'human food' at the moment, tinned tuna and ham. (And she hasn't had any dry food for a year?)
She was eating Kitekat and Sheba but has become a very picky eater. Also her appetite has diminished.
She has lost some weight.
She's on Caninsulin. Is she getting 1.5 units? Twice a day?
She's had two hypos. She was hospitalised during the first one; and she had another one last night?

As others have said it would be a HUGE benefit if you could learn to test your cat's blood glucose at home. It probably sounds a bit scary but really isn't that hard to learn. It only involves taking the teensiest weensiest droplet of blood from the outer edge of your cat's ear and testing that droplet on a glucose meter. Most of us here use meters made for humans, so you don't need to buy one from your vet (it would be the Alphatrack, specially made for animals) unless you really want to. Human meters work just fine and are a lot cheaper.

Taking blood from your cat's ear should not hurt her. But it will be an unfamiliar experience for her and may take her a wee while to get used to it. Most folks reward their cats with a treat afterwards. I crumble a few treats for my cat and then test him while he's eating those. Cats very soon learn to associate tests with treats!

Testing your cat's blood glucose at home ('hometesting') has many benefits: It will help you to keep your cat safe from hypoglycaemia; it will let you know if her blood glucose is high enough to warrant being given an insulin shot; it will give you a sense of control over the situation like nothing else can; and it will save you a lot of money in vet's bills, because you shouldn't need to send your cat to the vet to have blood tests done there. You can do it at home!

Re which meter to get, well quite a few folks in the UK use the Accucheck Aviva. You should be able to get this from a pharmacy. Ongoingly, you will be able to buy the test strips for the meter on Ebay at about half the RRP.

I could send you a meter if you prefer (I have a One Touch Ultra meter I could post to you) but my concern is that - given the hypo last night - it would be good if you could get a meter straight away rather than wait for mine to arrive in the post. However, if you'd like me to send you a meter then just PM me with your address.

This post is getting a bit long, and I don't want to overwhelm you with too much info in one bite, so I'll post about food and insulin types separately. (Just off to grab a cup of coffee first. ~O) )

Eliz
 
Hi again,

Here's some UK insulin info....

Vets in the UK have to prescribe a veterinary medicine before they can prescribe a 'human' one. There is now only one veterinary insulin available - Caninsulin.

Caninsulin was actually made for dogs (hence the name...) but is used for cats as well. But cats metabolise insulin quite fast, and so the whole insulin cycle is 'speeded up' in cats. With Caninsulin what that typically means is that the insulin drops the cat's blood glucose quite fast, but is then out of the system pretty fast too, quite possibly within 8 hours.

If it can be shown that Caninsulin isn't working well for a cat, then the vet has the option (under what's called the 'cascade system') of prescribing an insulin made for humans. In this circumstance the insulin of choice for most vets is currently Hypurin Bovine PZI. (Many UK vets are familiar with 'PZI' insulins as, until recently, there was a PZI made for animals which, sadly, has now been discontinued.) Some vets will prescribe other human insulins such as Lantus or Levemir. All these alternative insulins are considered "gentler" in that they tend to drop the blood glucose more slowly than Caninsulin; and they also have a longer duration in the cat's system.

The best way to find out how any insulin is working in the cat's system is by testing the cat's blood glucose at home (hometesting). If it is the case that the insulin isn't working well for the cat then the data collected can be shown to the vet as evidence of this fact; and the vet may be persuaded to prescribe another insulin. Not all vets are willing to do this. But several of us currently posting on this forum have managed to get our vets to change insulins.

INSULIN DOSAGE...

The fact that your cat had a hypo last night means that the insulin dose she received was too high on that occasion. I would strongly suggest that you reduce the insulin dose.

If you learn to hometest you will be able to see what your cat's blood glucose levels are prior to giving an insulin shot. It may be that her blood glucose is too low sometimes to warrant an insulin shot; or it may be that she needs a reduced dose. For people new to dealing with feline diabetes the general recommendation on this board is that no insulin is given if the blood glucose is below 11 (200).

Eliz
 
Oh, Hi Juliet!

I missed your post. You got there before me (being younger and faster...). Doh!

Sorry for duplicating any info folks.... :roll:

Eliz
 
sophiealix said:
...however she know only wants to eat ham or tuna striaght out of the can, human food basically, does anyone else have this problem???...
Click to expand...

I see (now that my slow old brain has had enough coffee...) that, amongst other stuff, Juliet has also already posted some super-duper UK food info! :smile:

... I really do sympathise that your cat is only willing to eat canned tuna and ham ('human' food). One of our cats was a tuna addict when he came to live with us and it was pretty difficult initially to persuade him to eat anything else. I did manage to convert him (albeit reluctantly) to other foods by adding just a teaspoonful of the new food to some tuna, and then increasing the amount of the new food gradually. After a while I was giving him the new food with just a little tuna on the top and he would eat it OK. Now, he will mostly eat ordinary canned cat food without protest. But if his appetite goes off a bit I tempt him by adding tuna to the food again.... The most important thing, IMHO, is that the cat eats at all...

As others have said though, tuna and ham produced for humans isn't a complete food for cats. I wonder if it's possible to give a vitamin and mineral supplement until you can transition your cat to 'proper' cat food? Many vitamin supplements for cats are brewer's yeast-based and cats generally like the taste. Maybe vitamin/mineral supplementation is something to talk with your vet about later...?

Something that concerns me slightly though is why your cat is now only wanting to eat tuna or ham. Could there be an underlying health issue that is making her feel poorly, and so she can only be tempted to eat by being offered 'treat' foods, I wonder....? Has your vet noticed any other health issues...?

Eliz
 
Hi guys thanks for all your info I'm just on my way to work at the moment but I will reply fully later on this evening I just thought I'd let you know I have read them and I'm still here :).

Thanks again for replying :)
 
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