Hypo in progress (out of the danger zone now)

Status
Not open for further replies.
akbahsMum

akbahsMum

Active Member
Akbah, the calmest cat in the universe, has hit 34.2mg/dL without symptoms. A few days ago we changed to wet food, his insulin needs have clearly been dropping daily, so each day i give him less insulin and each day we scrape past a hypo, always without symptoms. So I'm getting used to the drill. But today, he's lower than he's ever been, and earlier in the cycle (34.2 at +3). So hold my hand please. I haven't had a lot of sleep for awhile. Guess I should have given him less insulin. Maybe I should have given him none at all.
See spreadsheet.
big love
Nat (Akbahs catmother)
(aw! He just came over for an earrub and said "rrrr!")
 
Re: Hypo in progress

Did you see this thread? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

Also do you have any high carb food you can give him or honey to rub on his gums? Is taking him to the vet an option? I'm not sure what time it is down there or if you have emergency vets available or not. I hope he's OK!!!!! I've not been through this so I may not be the best advice giver on this but I hadn't seen anyone else responding. If nothing else, hope this bumps it up.
 
Re: Hypo in progress

SabrinaFaire said:
Did you see this thread? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887
Click to expand...
I know it well.


SabrinaFaire said:
do you have any high carb food you can give him or honey to rub on his gums? Is taking him to the vet an option? I'm not sure what time it is down there or if you have emergency vets available or not.
Click to expand...

He licks honey off my finger, and I have made a bowl of honey mixed with high carb gravy which I am giving him to lap up every 15 mins or so. He has also had some dry high carb crunchies, "kibble" is it called?

Its half past midday, on a Saturday, in Sydney, there are vets all around. The instructions on that sheet say, for asymptomatic very low, "watch carefully and test regularly." I am watching him carefully and his next test is in 8 minutes time. Watch this space!

SabrinaFaire said:
I hope he's OK!!!!!
Click to expand...

He *seems* okay. Its a bit early in his cycle for reading that low though, isn't it. What I hope is, maybe once this cycle is over, and he has a break from insulin tonight, maybe he will be, you know, touch wood, maybe he'll need very little insulin, is all I'm willing to say. Maybe we're done with this 3 units twice daily business.

I posted for help on another forum to get some input for you...
Click to expand...
thanks Celi!
 
Re: Hypo in progress

Love your calm demeanor!

binks got VERY attached to karo syrup in his high carb foodies! :lol:

celi
 
Re: Hypo in progress

He licks honey off my finger, and I have made a bowl of honey mixed with high carb gravy which I am giving him to lap up every 15 mins or so.
Click to expand...

That sounds yummy!

How are things going?
Carl
 
Re: Hypo in progress

73.8! Hooray for honey and gravy! Hooray for Akbah!
I acknowledge that this is probably a honey-and-gravy high, for he is still only at +4 and this insulin seems to give him a nadir at about +5.
But what a good cat you are Ak. cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon cat_pet_icon

Administered another tablespoon of honey-and-gravy and also about a teaspoon of corned beef from the lunchtime sandwiches.
Carl: you want some? :smile:
 
Re: Hypo in progress

I'm thinking it might not still be fresh by the time it got to me, but I might ask for the recipe!

That should be enough "boost" for the time being. I would test him again in about 30 minutes. In the meantime, I'll take a look at your SS.

Good job!

Carl
 
Re: Hypo in progress

I'm so glad you caught this in time to guide his numbers. Yaaay Nat! It sounds like you have everything under control and with such calm - you're an FDMB role model already!
 
Re: Hypo in progress

Nat, just so I understand the SS correctly. This morning, you gave him .5u and then a 2nd .5u a half hour later or so?

Carl
 
Re: Hypo in progress

I don't know enough to advice, but Racci will go down to 59 or 61 (American) sometimes at her +7, her low point, with no symptoms and go back up to 150-200 by her prepm also. If I don't give her at least 4u though, she will be super high by the pam. She just gets weird numbers depending on how she ate that day. I just watch her & give blueberry yogurt or honey or sherbert or ice cream, all of which she loves and don't even worry anymore since it happens so often. Only problem is she doesn't understand why I don't always share with her. :)

Melanie and Racci
 
Re: Hypo in progress

Nat:
It looks like you've got the situation well in hand.

How did you give insulin this cycle? It looks like you gave one shot (0.5u) at 8:30 and a second shot at 9:05 (0.5u). Is that correct?

Given how well Akbah is responding to low carb food and the kind of numbers you're seeing, you may need to reduce the dose further. To be honest, I can't tell at this point if Akbah is bouncing from dropping into low numbers or whether you're not getting good duration from your insulin -- hence the high numbers at your next shot time.

Humulin N/Protaphane is a much better insulin for dogs than for cats. You tend to see sharp drops into low numbers and big bounces back up since it does not have the same duration as Lantus or Levemir or even ProZinc. Some people here have had a very good experience using N. We switched Gabby off of N to Lantus.
 
Re: Hypo in progress

Carl and Sienne: yup, I gave 0.5 and then thought about it, and gave another 0.5. See rationale in the comments section.
Thanks for thinking about his SS, more eyes than mine are good.
n
 
Re: Hypo in progress

Nat,
Couple of questions...

Are you planning on trying a different, longer lasting insulin?

If not, have you given any thought to shooting three times a day? (TID) instead of BID? I am seeing short duration, resulting it higher preshot numbers since the insulin seems to have worn off. I was thinking maybe shooting .5 every 8 hours might give you overall lower numbers.

Carl
 
Re: Hypo in progress

A longer acting insulin may indeed be the go, or TID, but my vet is on holidays for the month. At least when he gets back, I will have lots of numbers for him. So I'm just waiting till the 30th. Only 9 more days. I wonder if I'll sleep at all till then? :-)
I'm willing to lower insulin alone (see how well I do that!? (sarcasm)).
TID without vet? ... nerve wracking.
 
Re: Hypo in progress

PS:
0.5 every 8 hours. So that's how people manage to hold down a job and still do TID.
I bet that would be better for Ak on this insulin.
 
Re: Hypo in progress

82.8
We're getting there. I'm going to turn the emergency sign off (the 911), as he's managed two readings out of the danger zone and they're going up (slightly, and probably still thanks to honey). I'll keep monitoring and post his +6.
And thanks for talking to me, it just takes the edge off (that panicky what-if-this-is-all-wrong) when there's others there saying reasonable things.
many of the most kind regards
Nat
 
Great job with this, Nat. I'll still be on when you check the +6, I'm sure.

Carl
 
75.6, down a bit but still a good strong number, not a danger figure. I figure, its gone down because of (a) insulin may still work till +7 (see row for 17 january when nadir occurred that late). and may also be down because (b) the honey + gravy from earlier is wearing off. Gave him another morsel of honey+gravy (its mainly gravy) and about half a tspn corned beef. He's sitting over there, looking very thoughtful, as he does. He says, "Rrrrr."
 
Gawd! Hannah (my civvie) got wind of the honeygravy, she wanted some, she loves it, now I'm in trouble! Cats everywhere looking around thinking about honeygravy!
Carl, in case you meant it, the recipe is:
put about a half a teaspoon of honey in the bottom of a teacup. Boil the jug and add a bit of water just to thin it. Get a tin of highcarb gravy style catfood and spoon out some of the gravy. Discover a bit of leftover lowcarb kangaroo pate and put about half a teaspoon of that in. Crush the pate and try to mix it into the goo.

You'll have a gross looking, sort of meaty soup that your hypo cat should be willing to suck down every 15mins or so. In fact, perhaps all day, by the look of this pair.
ohmygod_smile
 
FWIW, Carl asked me about TID dosing. (Let me say up front, I have limited experience with N. I used it for only a couple of months. There are undoubtedly others with a great deal more experience with this insulin. Gabby has been getting Lantus for quite some time and the two types of insulin are very different.)

Shooting every 8 hours and being around to monitor means you would be on a very difficult schedule. If you work or have to be away from home for a longer than usual stretch would make TID dosing challenging. The people that I've seen who have gone to TID dosing usually have a great deal of test data that clearly indicates that the insulin they're using is not providing the needed duration. Right now, I think you need to figure out what dose to use your cat's numbers don't keep dropping into the 30s.

Since N is a shorter acting insulin than Lantus or Levemir, by my way of thinking either of those would be a better choice than N if the insulin you're using is pooping out in under 12 hours.
 
Nat,
Thanks! I have heard/read that karo syrup tastes nasty, and my vet recommended honey instead. But I would think that your recipe would be very popular with kitties. Most like "sweet", and probably all like meaty gravy, so how can that not taste terrific (which I think you have witnessed yourself tonight!)?
Do they really sell kangaroo pate?

Yes, the small drop is probably due to the quick boost mixture wearing off a bit. But given meter variance, it looks like he's pretty much surfing along at a higher than hypo number.
Carl
 
Thanks, Sienne,

I agree, TID sounds like a good solution, but it does require a work/life schedule that might be hard for most people. If you are testing every 8 hours preshot, and want some nadir tests too, then either you have to work at home, close to home, or set the alarm for mid-nighttime tests. Not an ideal situation for most people.

It works well for some people if they have an insulin that isn't intended to work for 12 hours. The best solution would be to get the vet to prescribe another insulin that lasts longer. And that's only 9 days away, right?

For some cats, PZI doesn't last long (ECID) and there is one user in particular who has been treating her PZI kitty for several months on a TID schedule. I am not sure how she manages the shots and tests and her work and sleep schedule, but her screen name is "kse", her name is Kim, and you might PM her to get some input on how she makes it work for her. This week, she's had to add a diabetic dog into the mix too, so I'm sure she has all sorts of creative scheduling ideas!

Carl
 
carlinsc said:
The best solution would be to get the vet to prescribe another insulin that lasts longer. And that's only 9 days away, right?
Click to expand...
From one perspective I *could* work from home this semester. Another perspective on that is that I've actually spent most of the past few days at home obsessing about my cat and getting nothing else done, and I seem to remember deadlines and schedules and things which I have not been able to maintain lately. So I think a long slow insulin would be a very good thing really.

carlinsc said:
For some cats, PZI doesn't last long (ECID) and there is one user in particular who has been treating her PZI kitty for several months on a TID schedule. I am not sure how she manages the shots and tests and her work and sleep schedule, but her screen name is "kse", her name is Kim, and you might PM her to get some input on how she makes it work for her. This week, she's had to add a diabetic dog into the mix too, so I'm sure she has all sorts of creative scheduling ideas!
Click to expand...
My gawd. Kim, I take my hat off to you. Also to the lady with a diabetic cat, among other pets, and a special needs child, among other children? I think I read something like that, at some point today or yesterday.
 
given the typical action of N, I really would never suggest TID dosing with N. Honestly, this cat has shown duration, and response, lets perhaps just stick to suggesting a gentler insulin...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top