Hyperthyroid, and now kidney troubles

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Misterbeesmom

Misterbeesmom

Member Since 2016
went to vet this week cuz i thought mr b was constipated. turns out he wasn't. did some bloodwork since we were there.

got results just now:

1. his hyperthyroidism which has always been under good control for years now is now showing him to be a little hyper. normally we would just increase his methimazole but:
2. kidney values are starting to show now. vet says if we lower his thyroid it will have an unwanted effect on kidney function. so we're not increasing his thyroid med.

hilariously, the (useless) fructosamine test showed we have good control. anyone who looks at our ss can see thats complete bollocks. next time they want to run that test i'm going to say forget it. i was in a daze the other day so i just said yeah ok run it, then almost screamed when i got home and saw how much it costs. never again.

i had been waiting for something else to crop up. mr b is senior with issues, and with this unregulated diabetes for 13 months now, its no surprise that some other part of his system is grumbling. i dont know what this means in term of time. the vet didnt say and i didnt ask. i've become a bit on the numb side lately, feeling totally defeated with the diabetes unregulated and seeing mr b go downhill over the months. not sure what i'm looking for here with my post....
 
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Guess I can offer is a cyber hug :bighug:and an understanding heart. Our Elmo is 17 and like mrb has thyroid and slight kidney issues plus diabetic. Have had my holistic vet tell me the same , that elevated thyroid can be helpful in keeping kidneys going. Had a tuxedo , Sox, that lived to be 21 with daily SQ fluid. You sound like an awesome kitty momma and need to take heart in the fact that I are caring so well for ur furry child. Will keep u in thought and prayer. Caring for them is truly a labor of love and u r doing well :)
 
Beth 73 said:
Guess I can offer is a cyber hug :bighug:and an understanding heart. Our Elmo is 17 and like mrb has thyroid and slight kidney issues plus diabetic. Have had my holistic vet tell me the same , that elevated thyroid can be helpful in keeping kidneys going. Had a tuxedo , Sox, that lived to be 21 with daily SQ fluid. You sound like an awesome kitty momma and need to take heart in the fact that I are caring so well for ur furry child. Will keep u in thought and prayer. Caring for them is truly a labor of love and u r doing well :)
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thank you
 
Jen, I'm really sorry to hear the news wasn't better. It's hard, with our senior sweeties, I know, but don't let it get you down or make you feel defeated. It has taken me over a year to achieve any long-term regulation with Squallie! I think it's too early to worry about what his latest dx means in terms of time, if it was an immediate concern I think your vet would have talked to you about it. You are doing a wonderful job with Mr. B. As Beth said, caring for our sweeties is truly a labor of love, and you are doing well! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Yea for pink!

I'm sorry about his less-than-stellar bloodwork, but hopefully the pinks will continue and lead to better numbers - which will hopefully help his kidneys too.

:bighug:
 
Hi Jen

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with 3 conditions all at once for Mr. B. We've dealt with one CKD+hyper-T, and of course Rosa who was diabetic+CKD. With our CKD+hyper-T girl our vet, like yours, was very moderate with the dosing of hyper-T meds...they tried to give enough to stop her losing weight and having heart issues from the thyroid, while not controlling so closely that it affected her kidney values adversely. It isn't always easy, but it can be done and Shadow had another good year after her hyper-T diagnosis (she was CKD for 3 years in total) before finally succumbing to a catastrophic brain event not related to either at the age of 19.

We have never really fed a CKD diet. Shadow wouldn't eat it, and for Rosa it just wasn't suitable because of the diabetes. I made my own food list for Rosa of foods that were low enough in carbs for her diabetes and reasonably low in phosphorus for her CKD. This is the list I used https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E_HZnTcJdsr20Gpivo2ID1KQ9wlZAe1Xy3LDTDVRofU/edit?usp=sharing - please feel free to ask me if you have any questions about it if there are foods on there that you think you might like to try.

Your vet is wise not to try to put a timescale on these long-term conditions because it can vary so much from one cat to another. I have heard of people having their cats diagnosed in fairly early CKD and being told probably only 3 months...which for most CKD cats is ridiculously short. At the same time, as we all know, there are no guarantees. BTW, one of the vets at the place we go to has a diabetic cat herself and pretty much told me that the fructosamine is useless if you're home testing, so I don't blame you for being annoyed at the cost. I was told that she could run it if I really wanted her to, but that she didn't think it would tell me anything I don't already know. She didn't discuss the cost with me as I refused it, but any additional and unnecessary cost when vet bills are already high and meds expensive is unwelcome.

Please do let me know if there's anything you even remotely think I might know the answer to - while I might not have handled all 3 conditions in the same cat at the same time, they are all conditions that I am relatively familiar with.

And some hugs for you - just because everyone needs them after news like this. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
manxcat419 said:
Hi Jen

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with 3 conditions all at once for Mr. B. We've dealt with one CKD+hyper-T, and of course Rosa who was diabetic+CKD. With our CKD+hyper-T girl our vet, like yours, was very moderate with the dosing of hyper-T meds...they tried to give enough to stop her losing weight and having heart issues from the thyroid, while not controlling so closely that it affected her kidney values adversely. It isn't always easy, but it can be done and Shadow had another good year after her hyper-T diagnosis (she was CKD for 3 years in total) before finally succumbing to a catastrophic brain event not related to either at the age of 19.

We have never really fed a CKD diet. Shadow wouldn't eat it, and for Rosa it just wasn't suitable because of the diabetes. I made my own food list for Rosa of foods that were low enough in carbs for her diabetes and reasonably low in phosphorus for her CKD. This is the list I used https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1E_HZnTcJdsr20Gpivo2ID1KQ9wlZAe1Xy3LDTDVRofU/edit?usp=sharing - please feel free to ask me if you have any questions about it if there are foods on there that you think you might like to try.

Your vet is wise not to try to put a timescale on these long-term conditions because it can vary so much from one cat to another. I have heard of people having their cats diagnosed in fairly early CKD and being told probably only 3 months...which for most CKD cats is ridiculously short. At the same time, as we all know, there are no guarantees. BTW, one of the vets at the place we go to has a diabetic cat herself and pretty much told me that the fructosamine is useless if you're home testing, so I don't blame you for being annoyed at the cost. I was told that she could run it if I really wanted her to, but that she didn't think it would tell me anything I don't already know. She didn't discuss the cost with me as I refused it, but any additional and unnecessary cost when vet bills are already high and meds expensive is unwelcome.

Please do let me know if there's anything you even remotely think I might know the answer to - while I might not have handled all 3 conditions in the same cat at the same time, they are all conditions that I am relatively familiar with.

And some hugs for you - just because everyone needs them after news like this. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I wouldve thanked you sooner but i've been in a rotten mood with all this plus some family drama going on.

My vet has not been helpful with this issue. One said dont increase thyroid med, do nothing differently, and the other has not responded to my inquiries.

Thank you again.
 
manxcat419 said:
Just take your time Jen. You're doing a great job! :) I look in here most days, so even if it's months down the line, just shout out if you have questions. I hope things are calming down a bit for you now too. :bighug:
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:bighug: Hugs everyone i've been such a stressed out grouch lately thanks all for your help i do appreciate it so much. Yesterday was so bad but todays reward came in blue. :bighug:
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I already replied on your other thread but I'll say it again here - great looking blue there!!!!
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And i cant dose tonight at +12 wow
I hope we dont have a huge bounce tomorrow. And depending on his numbers i might have to leave for work without dosing him. Very tricky
 
Misterbeesmom said:
And i cant dose tonight at +12 wow
I hope we dont have a huge bounce tomorrow. And depending on his numbers i might have to leave for work without dosing him. Very tricky
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Have you ever tried stalling in 20 minute increments without food and retesting? I go as long as a hour when I have to do that. As long as the BG is rising and you get somewhere near a shootable number, you can give a dose, even if it's reduced. Give it some thought for tonight. You still have time and even a reduced dose might prevent you from backtracking too much.

If you end up an hour late with tonight's dose and then have to dose at the regular time tomorrow it won't be a problem with PZI. It permits this sort of flexibility.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Have you ever tried stalling in 20 minute increments without food and retesting? I go as long as a hour when I have to do that. As long as the BG is rising and you get somewhere near a shootable number, you can give a dose, even if it's reduced. Give it some thought for tonight. You still have time and even a reduced dose might prevent you from backtracking too much.

If you end up an hour late with tonight's dose and then have to dose at the regular time tomorrow it won't be a problem with PZI. It permits this sort of flexibility.
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I'll be retesting soon yes.

As far as reduced dosing goes, thats new territory to me so it makes me nervous on how to handle it, how to choose how much insulin. I dont suppose there is a ratio rule of some sort?
 
Misterbeesmom said:
I'll be retesting soon yes.

As far as reduced dosing goes, thats new territory to me so it makes me nervous on how to handle it, how to choose how much insulin. I dont suppose there is a ratio rule of some sort?
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If you want to try the stalling method, just post your numbers as you get them up to a 1 hour stall. I can look at where you are and give you my suggestions. I've done this a lot with Teasel including today, both AM and PM.

There isn't really a ratio rule. You go by the data on your SS and what his trends are. If stalling gets him to a shootable number you're comfortable with, you can give the full dose if you're home to monitor or make a small reduction for safety/comfort's sake. I encourage you to try this so you don't lose ground with Mr. B. No shot is the safest but not the optimal choice in a situation like this, especially for a kitty that's been high for quite a while.
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
If you want to try the stalling method, just post your numbers as you get them up to a 1 hour stall. I can look at where you are and give you my suggestions. I've done this a lot with Teasel including today, both AM and PM.

There isn't really a ratio rule. You go by the data on your SS and what his trends are. If stalling gets him to a shootable number you're comfortable with, you can give the full dose if you're home to monitor or make a small reduction for safety/comfort's sake. I encourage you to try this so you don't lose ground with Mr. B. No shot is the safest but not the optimal choice in a situation like this, especially for a kitty that's been high for quite a while.
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Ok 209 at one hour stall
 
Misterbeesmom said:
Ok 209 at one hour stall
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You shot a fat 4 u on a BG of 204 on 11/10 and had a BG of 108 the next AM. Let's use that as a guide because it's the closest scenario to where you are tonight. It tells me that a 4 u dose on a low-ish BG might give a too low PS the next cycle. Here's where the guesswork comes in but it gets easier the more you deal with this. I think you could safely give 3 u. That's a bit over 30% decrease. Aim to test again before bed, maybe feed him a snack afterward and then, if you're up for it, set your alarm for a test around +6 or so.

If you had a lot of data for this sort of thing I might have suggested 3.4 or 3.6 u but this is all new for you. What do you think?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You shot a fat 4 u on a BG of 204 on 11/10 and had a BG of 108 the next AM. Let's use that as a guide because it's the closest scenario to where you are tonight. It tells me that a 4 u dose on a low-ish BG might give a too low PS the next cycle. Here's where the guesswork comes in but it gets easier the more you deal with this. I think you could safely give 3 u. That's a bit over 30% decrease. Aim to test again before bed, maybe feed him a snack afterward and then, if you're up for it, set your alarm for a test around +6 or so.

If you had a lot of data for this sort of thing I might have suggested 3.4 or 3.6 u but this is all new for you. What do you think?
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That sounds reasonable to me and that is what i just did.
Its late and i have to go to bed now, been up since 3am
He's always on my mind so i'm sure i'll wake up at some point overnight to see how he is.

Thanks for your help! I'd be lost without your advice on this!
 
Misterbeesmom said:
That sounds reasonable to me and that is what i just did.
Its late and i have to go to bed now, been up since 3am
He's always on my mind so i'm sure i'll wake up at some point overnight to see how he is.

Thanks for your help! I'd be lost without your advice on this!
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You're very welcome, Jen. Glad I could help.
 
Red this AM is no surprise and I agree with resuming 4.4 u. I'm glad he had some insulin last night. Next time you have a low PS you'll have a bit of data to help you decide on dose reduction after a stall. :)
 
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