Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes questions

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Lunarnova

Member Since 2013
Hi all,

Here is a little background on my cat.

He is a rescue kitty, so I've never know his exact age. We think he is around 15-16 years old. He just had a full workup and the vet said his very back teeth are very decayed and that is resulting in a slightly elevated white cell count. He also just had a small Mast Cell tumor removed from the back of his neck and was taking some pain killers (his last dose was last night) and he is also on Clini drop antibiotics for the surgery and his teeth. The antibiotics are 1ml for 7 days and then 5 days once a month thereafter. The plan was to have him under general anesthesia and get his teeth dealt with at the same time as his tumor, but because of the diabetes, they didn't want to chance it. She has prescribed Lantus @ 1unit every 12 hours and that horrid Hill's MD food. I am home testing with my spare meter.

I have a few questions.

First, do cats respond like humans to illness and infections with elevated glucose levels? Is it possible to get him normalized with the pulsing doses of antibiotics?

#2 He is currently eating Stella & Chewy's Feline meals which are very very low in carbs. I'm assuming that is still a good choice? He has had digestive issues in the past and since he has been eating this brand he seems to have recovered.

#3 Do Lantus and Levemir affect cats in the same way?

#4 He is currently on 2 full meals a day with nothing in between. Should I start putting down some dry S & C pellets for him to snack on? Do pets respond better to small meals/grazing like humans?

Thanks for any help/advice you can offer.
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

Welcome and I'll try to answer in order

Yes illness and infection as well as stress will raise glucose

Yes his low carb diet is the way to go. I'm currently rehabbing a diabetic kitty that was put on prescription dry and in a year became a watermelon with feet and was put on 11u of Levemir bid. I switched him to Classic Fancy Feast and he is well regulated on 1.5u even while fighting a UTI. Run from the MD diet :smile:

Yes to some extent. Lantus and Levemir are both excellent insulin for cats just their metabolism rates are faster than ours so it last about 12-16 hours in their bodies. My Lantus diabetic has been in remission and insulin free for three years and I also have two currently on Levemir.

Yes just like humans cats do better on smaller more frequent meals.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

Lunarnova said:
#4 He is currently on 2 full meals a day with nothing in between. Should I start putting down some dry S & C pellets for him to snack on? Do pets respond better to small meals/grazing like humans?
Click to expand...

Like Mel said, they do respond to small frequent meals. However, dry food is almost always higher in carbs. So it will make it harder to get the BG levels under control.
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

I believe the dry she is referring to is dehydrated raw

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

Welcome!

Lunarnova said:
He just had a full workup and the vet said his very back teeth are very decayed and that is resulting in a slightly elevated white cell count. He also just had a small Mast Cell tumor removed from the back of his neck and was taking some pain killers (his last dose was last night) and he is also on Clini drop antibiotics for the surgery and his teeth. The antibiotics are 1ml for 7 days and then 5 days once a month thereafter. The plan was to have him under general anesthesia and get his teeth dealt with at the same time as his tumor, but because of the diabetes, they didn't want to chance it.
Click to expand...

You definitely want to get the teeth taken care of sooner rather than later as it is probably contributing to elevated BGs. A lot of times, vets want to wait until the kitty is "regulated" before performing anesthesia, but the kitty never becomes regulated because the teeth make it almost impossible. Do they have a plan to get his teeth taken care of sometime soon?

Lunarnova said:
First, do cats respond like humans to illness and infections with elevated glucose levels? Is it possible to get him normalized with the pulsing doses of antibiotics?

#2 He is currently eating Stella & Chewy's Feline meals which are very very low in carbs. I'm assuming that is still a good choice? He has had digestive issues in the past and since he has been eating this brand he seems to have recovered.

#3 Do Lantus and Levemir affect cats in the same way?

#4 He is currently on 2 full meals a day with nothing in between. Should I start putting down some dry S & C pellets for him to snack on? Do pets respond better to small meals/grazing like humans?
Click to expand...

1. It's possible, but it may be difficult (re: the teeth affecting BGs). Antibiotics are usually not a problem with BGs, but steroids can cause higher BGs and even cause the diabetes itself. Usually, the general rule of thumb is to treat the worst problem first and the diabetes second, so if he needs steroids or other medications that might elevate BGs, then we just compensate with insulin.

2. These should be fine. You might also want to check out Catinfo.org for more information on feline nutrition and take a look at the nutritional information chart of most commercial cat foods. For diabetics, we prefer to feed anything less than 8-10% calories from carbs, the lower the better. Non-diabetics also benefit from this diet since cats require very few carbs naturally (it's been estimated to be around 12% or so), so if you have other kitties you can feed them all the same thing.

3. Lantus and Levemir affect cats differently from humans, if that's what you're asking. Cats have a much faster metabolism so they need to be dosed twice a day instead of just once a day. Since we also control their food (carbs and amount), this makes managing their diabetes perhaps "easier" than if they were human. Dose changes are not made daily or even per dose. Instead, the dose is usually held for about three days between changes, partially due to the Lantus depot that we utilize.

If you're asking how they compare to each other, well.... they're similar in the dosing protocol and the fact that they're both long-term insulins that work really well in cats. They're different in that cats have different reactions to them. Many times, cats who are switched from Lantus to Levemir experience a more gentle curve. There's also less of a "sting" with Levemir, so high-dose kitties often benefit from the switch. Other times, there's not really any difference between a cat on Lantus and a cat on Levemir. We have a saying here: ECID! Every Cat Is Different!

4. Yes, cats seem to do better on smaller, more frequent meals as it helps the pancreas. If he's always been a grazer, there's no reason to stop letting him graze now. You might be interested in reading through this post on feeding kitty as much as they want.
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

If you look at the chart Kay provided you will see the M/D is 13% carbs which is too high for a diabetic cat. Many of us here feed the fancy feast classic pates, wellness grain free or friskies.

Sooner you can do the dental the better as it should bring his blood sugar down.

What kind of test results are you getting?


Wendy
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

Thanks everyone for the replies!

I've only been giving him the Lantus since Saturday. The first couple of days he was hovering around the 375 range before his AM and PM shots, but it has been coming down gradually. He was at the vet all day yesterday for a glucose curve and they just told me that his levels were steady/fine and to keep up with the 1 unit per shot. I think he tested something like 280 this morning, but since I left down some food last night I'm not sure when he ate during the night. He likes to eat his dinner in stages. How do you do glucose curves with cats who like to graze?

Unfortunately, the kitty has had stomach issues in the past with canned food, so I want to keep him on the Stella & Chewy's since he seems to tolerate that better than most of the premium canned foods. Luckily he doesn't overeat and most of the time even has some food leftover in his dish. I'm even trying to get him to gain weight, but from what I've read on these forums, the weight issues tend to resolve themselves after getting the kitties regulated.

I would love to get his teeth taken care of/extracted and am thinking that will be in a couple of months or so. The vet didn't think he was a candidate for general anesthesia in his current condition and I think they want to get him healed up from the tumor removal. They have him on the pulsing antibiotic doses to try and knock out the tooth infection. Do cats have to be put under for dentistry or can it be done with a sedative?

Thanks again!
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

I think they have to put them under because they may need to remove teeth etc.

So is he getting the m/d at all? or just the stella and chewys? Perhaps you could try the stella freeze dried raw.. through a gradual transition to avoid stomach issues. Reason I say that is that low carb food is the way to remission or better regulation.

Wendy
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

He only eats the Stella & Chewy's freeze dried raw. I refuse to give him the M/D.
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

Both of my diabetic cats have had dentals and had no problem with being put under although both times they used gas instead of injectable so they could bring them back quickly should there have been a problem.

Curves are easy just test every two hours between shots. If you're testing at home there is no reason to pay for a vet curve.

Mel and The Fur Gang
 
Re: Human diabetic with newly diagnosed kitty diabetes quest

Ok cool.

In terms of testing I recommend more frequent testing on a daily basis instead of curves as it helps to give you a better picture of what's going on, as well as more useful data..

I usually recommend 3-4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.


Wendy
 
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