Huge Question about shot...no shot

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Misty&TenTen

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Some of the old timers here will remember Ten Ten. A little bit of history: He was diagnosed in Oct of 2003 at age 5. He was in severe DKA at diagnosis. Since I have so many cats & have limited income, they all do eat canned & dry. Ten Ten's blood glucoses have ranged from the 300's to the 100's for the most part. After a few insulin changes, we settled on PZI Index, which he has been on until they stopped making it & I could no longer find any. At that time, I opted to try the BCP PZI, which was about 8 months ago.

His dosage, in the past couple of years, has ranged from .75u to .2u, but mainly the lower range. In his first 5 years or so, his dosage was 3 to 3.5u. I have learned through experience that Ten Ten does better with a type of sliding scale insulin dose, rather than a written in stone dose. In August of last year, he went over two weeks without needing any insulin! He has had an occasional skipped shot when his bg was too low to shoot, but not that often. Since August, he has had many instances of a few days of not needing insulin. His vet is at a loss to explain why. It seems he has progressively had a day or so longer of not needing insulin, during these periods.

He has not had any insulin since Dec. 31st!! His bg's have ranged from a few low 150's, down to 87. The majority are in the range of high 100 teens. These are NOT fasting bg's, as my cats free feed dry food. Ten Ten will be 13 in May & is acting like he's a youngster. He has just recently started being able to jump onto my bed again. I have had to help him for the past few years.

I test him at least twice a day & sometimes more often. Any ideas? Has anyone ever heard of this happening before? He feels great, he looks great & he has more energy. The vet feels no masses & can find nothing on physical examination. I opt not to have ultrasounds, xrays, etc. at this time, due to his general health & finances. I just wondered if any of you have heard of this or had the experience yourselves. Any responses appreciated. I hope all of your fur babies are doing well!
 
Hi, Misty. Going off insulin does, indeed, happen. More often when using levemir or lantus with a cat that has been on insulin for a while. When their BG stays in the normal range most of the time it seems to allow the pancreas to heal and also, I think, allows the cells in the body to become less insulin resistant (or not resistant at all).

Type 2 diabetes in humans is often a case of insulin resistance after years of excessive insulin production. I have a friend who had type 2 and was tested for his circulating insulin levels and they were through the roof (10X normal), yet his cells were not allowing it to bind to them and carry the glucose into the cells. He finally (doc told him he would live past 50) changed his diet to high protein/low carb (imagine that!) and lost 85 lbs and is no longer on any meds at all, when before he was on the highest dose of lantus allowable (I don't know what that was). He was medically diabetic for something like 10 years.

My cat, Beau, is off insulin - has been for a year and a half - but was on insulin for about 2-1/2 years before that.

What I did with him when he was going off insulin was set a "do not shoot below" number based on how low he would drop if I gave insulin. His dose was .05u at the end. He was on levemir. I think for PZI you need to have a higher do not shoot number, but have you tried giving even less insulin than .2u when he is above 150 or so? I wonder if .1u or even .05u might be doable. You would have to be home to test and make sure that doesn't drop him too low.

However, have you tried feeding him a little food when he is in the 150s and test a hour or two later? Does his BG come down? Then I would not give insulin on those numbers. just feed a small snack.

But, good job in getting Ten Ten to where he is. Sounds like he is doing very well! :-D
 
Thanks, Shelia, for your response. I always test Ten Ten before giving insulin. I was one of the fortunate ones who found this board very early on. I will try the even lower dosage, when he next needs insulin. If I give him any insulin with bg's below around 150, he drops too low. However, I'll try the very low dose & see what happens.

His bg can be around 115-130 or so, at +12, then drop even lower in the hours after that, without any insulin. Again, thank you for responding.
 
Oh, I remember you and especially TenTen. So glad to know he is still with you and sounds like he is doing great. Just wonder if IDEXX wasn't doing it as well and the BCP worked better. Not much help here, just wanted to say "hi" to an oldie. I'm going to be switching Mishka to BCP when my stockpile of IDEXX runs out. Vinnie is in remission and Hope is also but we think her remission came about because of her heart condition. Good to see you :mrgreen:
 
Hi Hope! I remember you also! Thanks for responding. You may be right...this all mainly started after switching to the BCP PZI. Now I wish I had used the BCP from the beginning. It's cheaper than the Indexx for sure! Good to "see" you!
 
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