? How to balance food vs insulin

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AlphaCat

AlphaCat

Member Since 2017
So still new figuring this whole thing out and I'm having a concern with food.

The question is how do I get more food in my cat?

She's a bigger kitty. Like Maine Coon without the fluff. Her brother was 20 fit pounds, and she's always held at about 18 pounds. Until the last 4 months. She's now at a 12 pounds. A thin 12 pounds. This was the reason that got me to bring her to the vet. Her spine shows, a lot.

Through this process she had gotten very aggressive over food. Like she's starving... which apparently she was because of the diabetes.

So now we've got her home. We're trying out vetsulin 1unit 2 times a day. The vet said if she eats she should be having insulin so try to restrict her to 2 meals a day. I read in here somewhere (I've gotten a lot of info from this site over the last week so I don't remember where I read this) to feed 3/4 of her can at 7:30 am and then when her insulin is working the best test her glucose and feed her the remaining quarter of the can.

She's supposed to eat 2 cans a day just to maintain her 12 pounds. But I can't get her to eat it all in one setting before she gets her shot at 8am and 8pm. This morning she woke us up at 5am starving. But I can't feed her because in the morning her AMPS glucose reading is about 450ish. So she really needs to eat and get her shot at the same time. She only ate 1 can yesterday, (half at 8am and the other half at 8pm) which is part of the reason why she goes back to starving mode before it's time to feed again. Tonight's meal I could only get her to eat 1/2 a can, and that's with sitting with her, mixing up her food when she's pushed it flat, and trying 2 different kinds. It seems she likes the food fine, she just likes smaller portions at a time.

So I have no idea what to do... she's getting half the portion size she's supposed to eat, she's still starving to the point of causing distraction for attention to get food.

We haven't been on insulin very long and she's quite far from stabilizing. I'm supposed to do my first curve tomorrow (it was recommended to give her a couple days after she got home from the vet so the readings won't be stress influenced).

What should I be doing for her and getting her to eat all her calories in 2 sittings?
 
I'm sure many people have a similar story about cat weight loss, but here's a photo where her weight loss is so sadly visible even in her little face...

Fabby
 
You could also try posting on the vetsulin forum. Smoky was on vetsulin for a few months before I switched him to prozinc. He had big drops in his blood sugar in a few hours. He lost a lot of weight in a few months, 14 lbs down to 7. I don't think I would do a curve after only a few days. It takes a little time for the insulin to work, I did my first curve after he was on insulin for a week. I'll tag @JanetNJ for you. She is an experienced vetsulin user. You could also try syringe feeding her. I'll tag @Kris & Teasel for you too and they might have a few tips for you to try with her.
 
Many people here have kitties who are grazers and their owners allow them to do that. The important thing is to remove all food for 2 hours before doing a pre shot blood glucose test - and those are very important tests to do. Vetsulin can hit hard and fast so the recommendation is to test, feed as much as she'll eat (hopefully almost a regular meal - 1/3 can of Friskies?), wait 30 minutes and then give insulin. That's so there food in her system before the Vetsulin kicks in. After that, let her eat when she wants until the 2 hours before the next shot time. Many people find an automatic feeder can work well to help with giving small meals multiple times a day.

Many vets tell you to feed only twice a day but most kitties are very unhappy with that routine so we ignore it. Small meals more frequently are better for them.
 
I agree with Kris. Why only feed twice if she isnt getting enough food in those meals but hungry the rest of the time? I feed small meals every 4 hours around the clock. Vet was so pleased when I started doing this because it's actually better to feed many small meals keep BG levels steady.
 
I wouldn't feed to her current weight but to her optimal weight. (Optimal # x 13.5
+ 70)She lost weight because she didn't have enough insulin to capture the energy from her food. And if you can do the small meal plan throughout the day It is best for kitty. Jones is a grazer so he free feeds and it can be a PITB to get him to eat when needed. I have noticed when I am home and can structure eating more his numbers are better. The act of eating makes kitty's body try to go through the normal motion of digestion and insulin production - which is where we are trying to get to.
 
Thanks everyone!

She can't be a grazer if I ever want her off quarantine, as 2 of my boys must be on urinary script, so I havent free fed in about 4 years, so Fabby is used to set meal times. I feed the rest of my cats one helping at sunrise, one about 4-5 pm and once at midnight. (That was Fabby's old schedule.)

But I appreciate that you've all had experience not following the vets advice.
Last night I gave her a 1/2 can about 1:30am which was our 5.5+ reading. This morning she had her lowest glucose reading since diagnosis. I'm not sure if it's just the insulin is kicking in, or the bigger meal at her lower insulin helped maintain her better overnight. Or maybe a combo of the two...

But the reassurance to feed more times instead of worrying about how I'm going to get an extra half a can in her after she's left the food bowl is appreciated!

Also, yes the 2 cans a day is only feeding her at current weight (12 lbs) and I've been struggling even getting that in her. But I'd be really happy if she just maintained instead of lose more at this point. I'll work on getting her back to ideal when we're more stable.

So new adjusted feeding schedule will be 1/2 can before each of her 2 shots and 1/2 can at each of her peak glucose lows. If we can get that schedule going, perhaps it will get easier as she gets better?
 
As you get her BG under better control her body will be able to use the nutrients from the food better :). Maury get's wet food 4 times a day because I need to get some weight back on him. Half Maine Coon too, with fluff :cat:. We're about a week into Month 5 and he's gained at least 2 pounds :smuggrin: and some muscle.
 
There are things you can do to make the food more exciting--warm it up a little, sprinkle with Fortiflora or finely-crushed-up treats (I like freeze-dried chicken or fish), pour some tuna juice on it. But if you can do multiple feedings during the day, I'd definitely try that--she has lost a lot of weight and needs to get some of it back on! Maybe you could add another feeding after the dawn one (like right before you go to work, if you have to).

I built a special feeding box to keep one of my cats out of the other's food--it's a big Rubbermaid tote with a cat door installed in it--one of the ones that requires a special thing on the collar or reads the cat's microchip, so that only the cat that has the collar thing/particular chip can get in. I found one of the special doors half off at a pet store because it had been opened and stuffed back in the package and returned, so it wasn't horribly expensive. But you have to have somebody who has the skills to install it. I guess you'd need two, so it's probably not a useful idea--super-pricey. But I'll share it anyway in case it helps someone else who is reading this. In my case, I feed the civvie the same thing as the diabetic, so it's not a problem if she gets into his food--I just have to stop her from gulping all of it down before he has a chance!
 
Squeakycats said:
There are things you can do to make the food more exciting--warm it up a little, sprinkle with Fortiflora or finely-crushed-up treats (I like freeze-dried chicken or fish), pour some tuna juice on it. But if you can do multiple feedings during the day, I'd definitely try that--she has lost a lot of weight and needs to get some of it back on!
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She is interested in food, a lot, lol. She'll eat anything. Before diagnosis we had trouble keeping her out of the dog food (Which none of the other cats have any interest in) just because it was out while the Cat food was out away. We never ate our people food meals in peace either in this last month. Poor thing. So getting her to eat isn't necessarily the problem. It's getting her to eat the quantity at once like the vet wants. But I think with the advice of the experienced folks in here I'm comfortable increasing the feeding events to 4 times a day instead of 2.

Squeakycats said:
I built a special feeding box to keep one of my cats out of the other's food--it's a big Rubbermaid tote with a cat door installed in it--one of the ones that requires a special thing on the collar or reads the cat's microchip, so that only the cat that has the collar thing/particular chip can get in. I found one of the special doors half off at a pet store because it had been opened and stuffed back in the package and returned, so it wasn't horribly expensive. But you have to have somebody who has the skills to install it. I guess you'd need two, so it's probably not a useful idea--super-pricey. But I'll share it anyway in case it helps someone else who is reading this. In my case, I feed the civvie the same thing as the diabetic, so it's not a problem if she gets into his food--I just have to stop her from gulping all of it down before he has a chance!
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^^^ you are a genius!
Before diabetes I was looking into timed feeders with id chips so we could get away for a weekend without quarantining the crystal boys. (Also b/c Fabby would eat all the food too soon because of her food aggression/diabetes issues we didn't know about.) We have 9, and those feeders are just out of our price range to justify a get-away weekend, lol. But once we get Fabby in remission (fingers crossed) your pet door-tub version might just be the perfect answer!!! Genius!
 
The tub thing works really well--you have to kind of cut holes in the top so light and air can get in, but otherwise we've never had a problem with it. Little Miss Greedy has tried to literally follow her brother in, putting her face in his butt, but she has not succeeded.

That is so, so good that Fabby will eat! My kitty wouldn't, and I was like "Please, cat--I will buy you a million kinds of food and prepare them however you want, or cook you dinner from scratch, or pretty much give you anything you want in the world--just eat something!" For a few days we thought he'd need a feeding tube; I know that's not the end of the world, but we were not thrilled at that prospect. As soon as his glucose was under control, he went back to normal!
 
Is the urinary food you are feeding the other two wet or dry food? i'm assuming wet since it's bad for cats with urinary problems to eat dry. What is the carb count of the urinary food? If you could find a food that is ok for all of them to have a few times a day, and just give the urinary food at shot times when Alphacat is preoccupied with her food, would that work?
 
JanetNJ said:
Is the urinary food you are feeding the other two wet or dry food? i'm assuming wet since it's bad for cats with urinary problems to eat dry. What is the carb count of the urinary food? If you could find a food that is ok for all of them to have a few times a day, and just give the urinary food at shot times when Alphacat is preoccupied with her food, would that work?
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The urinary food is dry. It's RC S/O. It took us an entire year to get my first crystals boy out of the woods. During that time we tried everything... This is what happened to work for him. We're now in the 2nd year of stability for him and he's finally putting on a little old man weight. We had a scare around Christmas time due to stress we introduced. So I'm not willing to mess with, well anything with him, lol. I've since gained a 2nd crystals boy who was stabilized in a matter of weeks, and because we were already on RC S/O for Juan, we just continue for Tristan. He's been making spectacular progress this year also.
My crystals boys experience was worse than the diabetes and my hyperthyroid cat put together. Literally weeks waiting for news he passed away, then months of trying to get rid of uti's while trying to lower stress (he's a cat... How much is there really to be stressed about when you get to sleep 18 hours a day?)

Maybe if we can get Fabby stabilized with food and in remission I might consider making it easier on me with changing everyone's food... But right now, Fabby's new changes are my focus.
But hopefully in the future your suggestion is something we can look into.
 
We too are starting out treating our diabetic cat. We have had different advice, since our cat was a grazer, he was used to lots of small meals. We give him two main meals of 90 or so calories per meal and two 'snack' meals, one late morning and one mid afternoon of about 30 calories - in this way he doesn't get ravenous, he still sniffs everything meaty or cheesy within five miles - we have to put him out when we eat our meals.

He is much better, his coat is shiny, and today we found out he has put on some weight too. His total calories per day is around 260. I make sure to buy high protein low calories foods, the lowest calorie foods I give as his snacks - all his cat foods are complete cat food and organic: Thrive, Allpaws, Natures Menu, Lilly's, Simpsons available here in the UK.

We have just received our alphatrak and will attempt to do a test tomorrow!
 
gandha key said:
He is much better, his coat is shiny, and today we found out he has put on some weight too.
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I'm glad to hear your kitty is making good progress! It gives me hope!
A couple days ago I thought my Fabby was looking a little better, but I dismissed the thought as wishful thinking. Then an overseas friend I trade kitty pictures with regularly also said she was looking better. So maybe it's actually true and the progress will continue for Fabby too.

I feed my crystals boys in the save room as Fabby 3 times per day (one of them won't eat on a timed schedule if I'm not there). So I've taken to feeding them on top of my dresser because Fabby doesn't jump. However, she sits on the bed and thinks about how she can get up there before I catch her, lol. It's almost like watching the little dogs in her brain turn. So far I've got her foiled!
Due to timing, we've had to eat a couple of our own means in the bedroom so Fabby will eat in time to get her insulin on time. She's not aggressive with the people food like she has been in the past.

I have noticed when her glucose test is higher she's more food aggressive. If it's lower, I have to chase her around longer to get enough food in her.

My current feeding procedure is: put down food. Let her eat at will. Take food away and pile remaining food into a food mountain. She'll usually eat again when it's out in front of her a couple times if it's a mountain. When she's not interested in the mountain, I add a bit of filtered water and make my famous cat food soup. At this point I'm chasing her to wherever she's gone to lay. She'll eat the soup if it's out in front of her. When she's drank all the liquid parts I mountain it up again.
I've been getting her ½ can in (mostly) each time. She's getting about a can & a ½ each day at least. For her weight right now she should be at 2 cans. For her ideal weight she should be closer to 3 cans. Since she eats less when her glucose is lower I'm worried about balancing her insulin stabilization with her need to put on weight.

She would graze all day if I let her, but when she's putting up glucose #'s in the 450's I'm not real sure leaving out food is wise. And we didn't graze before diabetes, so she's used to timed meals. So this is very weird... But one day at a time. And I think we're moving forward, so like you I'm feeding 4 times. Once with each shot, and once at each lowest glucose possibility (for vetsilin I read that's at hour +5 and +6)

If your meter just came in, if you haven't already get the spreadsheet they use in here set up. I tried phone apps first (b/c I'm stubborn) but they just weren't as good as the spreadsheet they use here.

May we both continue down the path of good kitty progress!
 
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