How did you get your cats OTJ?

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static

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I would love to get Dale OTJ but his numbers just seem to jump up and down. I have tried more pricey foods lately like Merrick and Wellness. It seems maybe Merrick was working best and maybe I need to stick with one food for longer. He has been on Lantus for a little over a year. It just seems to me that if a more expensive food isn't doing it, I don't want to spend that extra money and would rather go back to something less costly if he is going to need the insulin. Any tips?
 
If you want to see if Maybe your cat could go OTJ, you would need to follow the protocol that we follow here and that we work very hard at.
Read the stickys at the top of the lantus page, and get more info--
The cats that went OTJ here were lucky, had caregivers who are totally devoted to them, and it took for many, a very long time to achieve--
There are No guarantees here and just food will not solve the problem from what you have said--
You are most likely being guided by you vet, but our protocol here is somewhat different.
You need to give more info about your cat--age, dose on lantus, shooting times, food you are feeding, what times you home test(I test my cat 5 times a day), and other pertinent info--any other ilnesses or meds?--
Wish you well & we would need to know much more if you want help here..
 
Welcome Sabrina and Dale.
I don't know if you'll get any magic answers to get your kitty OTJ, but stick around this forum, and you'll get lots more information, and support, and maybe one of the best chances you can get to help your diabetic kitty.
I see you are home testing, that is a first step. Others will be by shortly.

Hope to see you around often.
 
I am thinking you are going to need more info on your ss for Dale. I see that there is always the dose for am and pm but there are no ps numbers, so it's tough to know much if we can't see where he was when he got his shot.
The next thing is that you keep changing the dose up and down with no pattern why the dose was changed and based on what values.

The price of the food is not near as important as the carb values, and some of the fancy expensive stuff may be worse than some of the cheaper stuff. For me, I feed both of mine regular Friskies Turkey&Giblets for the most part with the fish and some low carb fancy feast as treats.
Often the amounts being fed and the times at which it's being fed will also affect your numbers. If you could say a bit about how you are feeding, it will also be helpful.

Last, both of mine aren't like to go OTJ anytime soon, so I can't comment on that question.
 
Welcome Sabrina and Dale.

Lantus is a well researched, long acting insulin that has an admirable track record of getting cats into remission/diet controlled status. That said, the method of getting cats OTJ or tightly regulated is to follow the protocol that has been effective in getting cats into remission. If you look at the sticky note at the top of the board, Lantus & Levemir: Tight Regulation Protocols, you will find the modified version of the protocol we use here along with the links to the full protocols.

Fundamentally, what these protocols require is aggressive home testing and using the data from your home testing to guide dosing decisions. You will need to routinely get pre-shot tests along with mid-cycle tests. Doses need to be held until reductions are earned or increases are indicated. Based on your spreadsheet, you aren't getting pre-shot tests on a regular basis. While dosing decisions are not based on the pre-shot number, you need this information in order to guarantee that it is safe to administer insulin. Likewise, without spot checks, you don't know either when the nadir is or whether a dose reduction has been earned. We are very numbers driven because we have found it is the best and safest way to get a cat either tightly regulated or into remission. While there is variability in how much each of us is able to test, you will find consistency with respect to our getting pre-shot and at least one spot check per cycle, if not more. Please feel free to open our spreadsheets to get an idea of the frequency with which people here test. Reading the protocol will help you to better understand our spreadsheets.

While food is important, feeding a low carb, canned food diet is more important than what the brand of food is. While I could manage to feed my cats the premlum foods, frankly, they don't like Wellness and prefer Fancy Feast. As long as they eat and are eating food that is less than 10% carb, we're all happy.
 
Thanks for the link to the sticky- I wasn't sure where to read on that. Thanks for everyone's advice. The reason for the decreased dose was to see if he could start to ween off the juice but then his numbers were indicating he still needed it. I will keep him at .75 for now (it is actually hard to measure exactly .75, but I am giving him just slightly under the 1 unit mark). After he was missing for a week he lost weight but the glucose levels weren't bad- I figure although he didn't have his insulin he was maybe only eating bugs so at least he didn't have the food spike. Also, it sounds like maybe I don't need to spend so much on his food if it doesn't make a big difference. I'll do my reading and keep trying!
 
Hi Sabrina (spotted your name this time)

Your probably right about what he was eating whilst missing.

As for food-as long as it's low carb wet (think has already been said about Janet and Binky's charts) and under 10% it's good. It's when kitties get complications such as renal issues it gets a bit more complicated. Fancy Feast, Friskies, Evo are the ones I see mentioned most.

As for weaning off, good to do this very slowly and in the end go down to giving a drop even when it doesn't look like he needs it. Just gives that extra bit of help to Mr P and gives a better chance of remission lasting.

If you can set up a spread sheet, I would recommend you start posting a daily condo in the Lantus Isg-lots of eyes to offer help and support every step of the way :mrgreen:
 
static said:
Interesting that a lot of people mention Fancy Feast- my vet said that is sort of a "junk" food.
Click to expand...

Vets don't get tons of education on nutrition. Try reading Dr Lisa Pierson's website about cat food and cat nutrition. Many kitties here eat FF. However, for me? FF and wellness are the same price. 2 cans of FF = 6 oz or 180 calories (and costs $1.00 on sale) 1 can of 5.5 oz of wellness is about 200-220 calories, and costs $1.10

I actually buy the 12.5 oz cans for under $2.00 per can (I have 2 cats). The difference is in what kind of meat is used. FF uses more organ meat, while Wellness uses human grade meat (more muscle meat, which is a better source of protein). I buy from PetFoodDirect when they have their 20% off sales.


There is stuff you can do to increase the likelihood that your cat will go OTJ (aggressive hometesting to allow for adjusting doses as needed, being patient, feeding species appropriate food, etc etc), but a lot of it is luck (aka whether your cat's pancreas can heal or not). When I used to be a more active member of lantus land, we tried to encourage newcomers to make REGULATION the goal (where you can give the same dose w/o worrying at all, and kitty stays in the comfort range of BGs). There are kitties here who've been on the same dose forever (like Lynn and Bear, or Fleapunk, or Jojo and Bunny's SettleD), and are as happy as can be.

Welcome to Lantus Land!
 
Hi! I let your question marinate in my mind before hitting REPLY immediately... however, my REPLY is what I keep coming back to.
It is like asking.. how did you get your Cancer in Remission? The answer is... every BODY is different. You & I, or them can follow the same exact plan & all end up with different results. I can say.. which is exactly what the entire FDMB culture says is.. consisitency in shots, shooting low #s to stay low, low carb food & mini meals (in my opionion)
I only feed premium food.. so cannot comment on Fancy Feast. I feed a Raw Diet, supplemented (for when I am not home) Wellness.

I was attentive & engaged in Baby's recovery. I listened, I learned & most of all.. I just think it is all important.. but no magic to this.

I can say I *cringe* when I hear people not shooting low #s, or when they feed medium carb (MC) to "normal" #s, meaning 50s.. I know there is a method to the madness.. but I did not try to manipulate cycles too much.. I let Baby's Body Drive & I always embraced the nervousness/low #s & made it work.. by not going out & working around work.. I am Single, no mom, dad or husband to help.. it is possible.. it really is!! Lots of Luck!! Try to remember.. we can follow the same plan.. but it is the BODY of your Kitty doing it.. we can just help & try to draw logical conclusions in your care of plan ;-)
 
HI Sabrina, (that is my female cat's name!), we have been OTJ for almost 3 weeks now. I have been feeding my cats Fancy Feast since Scrabble has been diagnosed. The best thing I can say is to follow the protocol exactly, this is what we did, and to keep the feeding schedule consistent. I feed my cats at pretty much the same time every day and feed them 4 times a day. Scrabble responded very well to the insulin and once his pancreas started working he went down the dosing ladder pretty quickly. This obviously doesn't happen with everyone but like I said we followed the protocol to a "t" and I was very adamant about testing. Hope this helps you.
 
static said:
I would love to get Dale OTJ but his numbers just seem to jump up and down. I have tried more pricey foods lately like Merrick and Wellness. It seems maybe Merrick was working best and maybe I need to stick with one food for longer. He has been on Lantus for a little over a year. It just seems to me that if a more expensive food isn't doing it, I don't want to spend that extra money and would rather go back to something less costly if he is going to need the insulin. Any tips?
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I don't think a more expensive food will help in the least. It's not the price of the food that counts, but the amount of carbohydrate, and Friskies canned is as good as any. Just pick a few varieties with low carb (I kept to 6% or less) from Janet and Binky's list, and rotate as needed to give him some variety.

Ragnar has been back back on the juice recently, but he went OTJ in April 09 after only a month on insulin and stayed there for more than a year. His magic potion was Friskies Turkey and Giblets - and the month on insulin gave his pancreas a rest, too. I've since switched him to other varieties of Friskies with lower phosphorus, and this - along with Azodyl - brought his above-normal renal values back to the normal range.

If Dale will always need insulin, you might have to keep him on it - a more expensive food won't help him, but the better regulated his insulin is, the better.

Blessings!
 
Michelle & Scrabble said:
HI Sabrina, (that is my female cat's name!), we have been OTJ for almost 3 weeks now. I have been feeding my cats Fancy Feast since Scrabble has been diagnosed. The best thing I can say is to follow the protocol exactly, this is what we did, and to keep the feeding schedule consistent. I feed my cats at pretty much the same time every day and feed them 4 times a day. Scrabble responded very well to the insulin and once his pancreas started working he went down the dosing ladder pretty quickly. This obviously doesn't happen with everyone but like I said we followed the protocol to a "t" and I was very adamant about testing. Hope this helps you.
Click to expand...

When Scrabble was on insulin did you feed 4 times a day? I was trained to only feed twice a day every 2 hours and shoot right after... should I try another method?
 
Ever since Scrabble was diagnosed I have fed him 4 times a day. I don't feed huge meals . His shot schedule was 4am/4pm. I would test/feed and shoot. His ps meals were normal size and the two other meals were smaller. We have been very happy with FF and have also tried Sophisticat which they like also. I still keep the same feeding schedule now that he is otj.
 
feeding several times a day helps keep things nice and level. Two larger feedings 12 hours apart leave quite a few hours after the meal has worn off before the next one comes along. Think of humans. It's not really good for us to eat one or two big meals a day either, they say we should eat 4-6 mini meals instead. Better for your metabolism (and I now believe it because I used to only ever eat dinner and couldn't figure out why I was steadily getting fatter, never had energy. Then I got a job and snacked through my whole darn shift (8-12 hours), basically eating crap food but doing it 5 or 6 times a day and suddenly I was dropping weight so I switched from crap food to healthier options and have maintained the loss even though I no longer work)

If you can't be around to feed in between the usual two meals, you can either use a timed feeder or you can freeze canned food (add some water) and leave it out to thaw in the dish.

Even three meals would be better for your kitty than just the two, but I personally think 4 meals is ideal when you're trying to assist their pancreas to heal. I'm still feeding 4 meals a day and probably will continue to do so forever because it's keeping all 5 of them happy and healthy =)
 
My Boomer (3 y/o) was OTJ in 5 months thanks to the help of Lantus Land. He was a steroid-induced diabetic. My vets both said they didn't think (for him) that his food being high or low carb/wet or dry mattered....but I tested and I think it did make a difference. I don't think the type of food matters as long as it's low carb and they will EAT it. If they won't eat it, it doesn't matter how good the quality is. I followed the advice I got here and didn't call my vet for help at all, they generally have no clue how to properly care for a diabetic day-to-day.

My Mom's cat Francis (about 15 y/o) was diagnosed and put on PZI for 4-5 months and his numbers were high. He wasn't doing well. She switched to Lantus because of me and he was OTJ in a month. Like Nicole said, it's the cat's BODY that either responds or doesn't. I personally think Lantus is a better insulin and that's what got both these boyz OTJ.

Both Mom and I followed the protocol here and didn't take advice from our vets. We used the food charts. We did micro-dosing down to one drop. No vet is going to say to dose one drop BID, bit LL will. It makes a huge difference.

I won't lie, it's a pain sometimes to have to track things; you really need to be devoted, but it's doable. I am single too with no help and I was able to do it by testing 3 times daily and more on weekends.
 
Food matters!

Just look at Shadoe's ss for the last couple days; she stole some dry food from Booboo's bowl, and her numbers shot UP TO 400!

It's going to take awhile to get that crap out of her system now :YMSIGH:

So yeah, food matters ... alot.

I use a 5 section auto feeder during the days when I am at work.

If you has a human diabetic, they will tell you that 2 meals a day is not good enough.
 
answering previous question, yes you can use wet food in those auto feeders, adding a little bit of water or ice cube keeps the food fresh thru the time ur away/sleeping.
 
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