Hobbes -- Newly Diagnosed

[Babz]

I wasn't sure what area to post this, so lemme know if there is some better area.

Here's my story. Sometime in Oct. I noticed excessive thirst/urination with my cat and I suspected diabetes. I called the Vet on Nov. 1 and the soonest I could get an appointment was Nov. 10. (This was the longest I ever had to wait for an appt w/ this vet and that concerns me, but moving on...)

Blood Glucose test results showed 403 (reference range 72 - 175 mg/dL). Vet said he needed to go on a wet food only diet. However, he has lived his entire life (he's about 7) on mostly dry food and is EXTREMELY picky about what wet food he will eat. Basically will only eat this one specific brand/type/flavor, which I cannot find on Chewy or Amazon anymore, and I fear is discontinued. But I have a few remaining cans.

I took away dry and fed only wet for one day. I noticed a radical IMMEDIATE change in thirst and urination. Like it went from scooping like 8 grapefruit-sized clumps in the box per day, to like one golf-ball sized clump. He was also more frisky and playful than I'd seen him in months.

The vet also laid out the Vetsulin vs Glargine (Lantus) pros and cons, and said that the latter was more expensive, but that cats could go into remission within a few months. So, Lantus seems the way to go.

But before we even start insulin, I mentioned to her the changes in urination/thirst, etc. and she said she has seen instances where a cat has gone into remission simply by changing diet. (She said it's rare, and a longs shot, but it does happen.) So we are going to test his blood glucose after a week (4 days from now) on the new diet and see the numbers before making the decision about initiating insulin.

In the meantime, I obtained a human glucose test kit and, after many failed attempts, managed to get things working and got one test result of 228.

First question... Does anybody know what this human-home-tester result of 228 means in relation to the vet lab result of 403 from last week. Could he have dropped from 403 to 228 in just a few days of diet change? Do I stand any chance of getting it below 175 in a few more days of new diet? Could we possibly get him into remission (175 or below) via diet change only?

I have other questions, but this is enough for now..

Thanks for any guidance.

Babz

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome Babz and Hobbes to the forum.
We like you to post first on the main Health page for the introduction and to get you set up, so I will ask one of the moderators to move the thread over there @Wendy&Neko.

Vet said he needed to go on a wet food only diet.

Your vet is correct. A wet low carb (10% or under carbohydrate) is what is recommended you feed Hobbes. Almost all dry food is very high in carbs and raises the blood glucose. It also any has 7% water in it compared to wet food which has 78% and cats need as much moisture for their kidneys as they can get.

The vet also laid out the Vetsulin vs Glargine (Lantus) pros and cons, and said that the latter was more expensive, but that cats could go into remission within a few months. So, Lantus seems the way to go.

Your vet is correct. Lantus is a much better insulin for cats/

In the meantime, I obtained a human glucose test kit and, after many failed attempts, managed to get things working and got one test result of 228.

Well done getting the first test. It will get easier.
HOMETESTING HINTS AND LINKS

But before we even start insulin, I mentioned to her the changes in urination/thirst, etc. and she said she has seen instances where a cat has gone into remission simply by changing diet. (She said it's rare, and a longs shot, but it does happen.) So we are going to test his blood glucose after a week (4 days from now) on the new diet and see the numbers before making the decision about initiating insulin.

Some cats can go into remission with just a diet change but most need at least some insulin and some cats have to stay on insulin for life. only time will tell.
If you are going to wait for a week to see if the diet helps ( and I'm sure it will help) I would strongly recommend you go out and buy a bottle of ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine daily for ketones. (follow directions on the bottle). Let the vet know if any ketones appear. there should be no ketones but diabetic cats who do not get insulin can start getting them and need to start insulin immediately.

First question... Does anybody know what this human-home-tester result of 228 means in relation to the vet lab result of 403 from last week. Could he have dropped from 403 to 228 in just a few days of diet change? Do I stand any chance of getting it below 175 in a few more days of new diet? Could we possibly get him into remission (175 or below) via diet change only?

What type of meter are you using? A pet meter of a human meter. We recommend a human meter...much cheaper to run and just as good and our dosing methods are based on the human meter.
A drop from 403 to 228 in a week where you have changed the diet is good and not unexpected.
If you are using a human meter the normal range in a cat is 50-120 so they are the BG numbers you are aiming for.
Cats BGs fluctuate during the cycles. They don't stay the same all day.
I would recommend you set up one of our spreadsheets and start adding all the data you can.
HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet and the signature and the hypo kit and other useful information.

Here is a link to the BASICS
If you are going to use Lantus, the recommended starting dose for a cat eating a wet diet is 0.5 units twice a day and hold the dose for 7 days unless the BG drops too low.
If you can give us more information about the meter you are using, what diet you intend to feed and any other health issues, weight, insulin type (all this should go in the signature) we can help you a lot more.

Keep asking questions, we are happy to help.
Bron

 

[Babz]

What type of meter are you using? A pet meter of a human meter. We recommend a human meter...much cheaper to run and just as good and our dosing methods are based on the human meter.
A drop from 403 to 228 in a week where you have changed the diet is good and not unexpected.
If you are using a human meter the normal range in a cat is 50-120 so they are the BG numbers you are aiming for.
[...]
If you can give us more information about the meter you are using, what diet you intend to feed and any other health issues, weight, insulin type (all this should go in the signature) we can help you a lot more.

Bron

Thanks Bron!

Yes, as I wrote previously:

"I obtained a human glucose test kit and ... managed to get things working and got one test result of 228.

First question... Does anybody know what this human-home-tester result of 228 means in relation to the vet lab result of 403 from last week"?

So, yes I am using CVS Health Advanced Blood Glucose Meter made for humans. When I tested the cat, I got 228. My main question is/was: Are these numbers from a human meter roughly the same as the numbers I got from the vet's test? That is to say, had I tested him last week on the same day as the vet, would I have obtained the same number as the vet's, a number of roughly 400? And can I assume that his numbers have dropped from roughly 400 to 228? Or do the human meter numbers have no relation to the vet's scale and I can only use them to judge if things are going up or down relative to a baseline initial reading?

When I searched online to see if I could find any source to translate or convert human-reading numbers to pet numbers, I found this:

https://petdiabetes.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_sugar_guidelines

It says "The numbers below are as shown on a typical home glucometer while hometesting blood glucose.."

I also read somewhere that the numbers you get from a human testing device are roughly the same as the vet/pet scale, except for at the low end of the scale.

Thus, I was hoping that he had dropped from 400 to 225-ish, and that if I could get him below 175, that could be considered "remission."

However, it seems like you are saying I need to get below 120 (when testing with a human device), is that right?

Thanks,
Babz

 

[Babz]

Hi and welcome Babz and Hobbes to the forum.

Some cats can go into remission with just a diet change but most need at least some insulin and some cats have to stay on insulin for life. only time will tell.
If you are going to wait for a week to see if the diet helps ( and I'm sure it will help) I would strongly recommend you go out and buy a bottle of ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine daily for ketones. (follow directions on the bottle). Let the vet know if any ketones appear. there should be no ketones but diabetic cats who do not get insulin can start getting them and need to start insulin immediately.
Bron

The only thing I know at this point about ketones is that he did not have any signs of them last week when the vet did a full blood count test.

I will look into this and see if I can figure out how to test for them at home. Only problem is that he is not urinating much now. In fact, as far as I can tell he either hasn't urinated today, or possibly he did once. (Oddly, my other cat has not been urinating much since the vet visit last week. Hard to tell which cat the clump is from, but there has been dramatically less from BOTH cats, for whatever reason! ?)

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

The only thing I know at this point about ketones is that he did not have any signs of them last week when the vet did a full blood count test.

That’s good!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I obtained a human glucose test kit and ... managed to get things working and got one test result of 228.

Ugh! I’m blind! Sorry!

Are these numbers from a human meter roughly the same as the numbers I got from the vet's test? That is to say, had I tested him last week on the same day as the vet, would I have obtained the same number as the vet's, a number of roughly 400? And can I assume that his numbers have dropped from roughly 400 to 228? Or do the human meter numbers have no relation to the vet's scale and I can only use them to judge if things are going up or down relative to a baseline initial reading?

It depends if the vet was using a human or pet meter or if he sent the bloods away and got a lab to do them. But either way, they would have been higher than 228. A pet meter reads a bit higher than a human meter and the lab ones do as well (well they do where I live in Australia). I think you can be sure that changing the food has made a difference. It always does.
If we need to get a cats BG up higher we give higher carb food and it raises the BG so if a cat is being fed a diet of high carb food all the time and then it is withdrawn, the BGs will fall.

When I searched online to see if I could find any source to translate or convert human-reading numbers to pet numbers, I found this:

https://petdiabetes.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_sugar_guidelines

It says "The numbers below are as shown on a typical home glucometer while hometesting blood glucose.."

The two different sets of numbers you are seeing in the table are the world (mmol/L) and the US (mg/dL) BG numbers
Here on the forum we use the US numbers because FDMB is a US based site. The rest of the world uses the mmol/L numbers.
You don’t need to convert the human meter numbers to a pet meter numbers. You just use the human meter numbers.
There has been no conversion done but we do say that if the BG drops under 50 ( human meter) or 68 (pet meter) then you reduce the dose and give higher carb food to bring the number up higher. Does all that make sense?

I also read somewhere that the numbers you get from a human testing device are roughly the same as the vet/pet scale, except for at the low end of the scale.

The numbers on the human and the pet meters get closer as they get lower and further apart as they get higher. Don’t try and use both numbers from both meters or it will drive you crazy and it doesn’t work. Just choose one meter and use those numbers. I have always used the human meter and have seen hundreds and hundreds of caregivers use them and they have always worked. And our dosing methods are based on the human meter numbers.so my advice would be to stick with the meter you have.

Thus, I was hoping that he had dropped from 400 to 225-ish, and that if I could get him below 175, that could be considered "remission."

However, it seems like you are saying I need to get below 120 (when testing with a human device), is that right?

For a kitty to go into remission we recommend they stay on insulin for as long as is safely possible and for the BG numbers to be in green ie…under 100.
If you follow one of our two dosing methods you will be guided in what to do.

Vets often tell caregivers the cat is in remission with numbers in the high 100s. However we have found that for a cat to have a strong remission they need to be in the green numbers between 50 and 99 (human meter) for 2 weeks without insulin for us to say they are in remission.
You want a strong remission for your kitty because if they fall out of remission it is much harder to get them back into remission again. So it is worth the effort the first time around.

 

[Babz]

It depends if the vet was using a human or pet meter or if he sent the bloods away and got a lab to do them.

Vet measurement came from sending the sample away to a lab. (Part of a full blood and urine panel that was done when I brought cat in last week.) The results obtained from that method were 409 BG and no ketones.

You don’t need to convert the human meter numbers to a pet meter numbers.

You just use the human meter numbers.
There has been no conversion done but we do say that if the BG drops under 50 ( human meter) or 68 (pet meter) then you reduce the dose and give higher carb food to bring the number up higher. Does all that make sense?

Yes, once I get to the point where the cat is actually on insulin and I'm using the human meter as part of that regimen. But we aren't at the point yet. Where things are at now is:

He was tested last week at the vet w/ lab result of 403. Vet recommended no more dry food, and insulin.
One day after no dry food, I spoke to vet and reported a radical change in water intake/elimination. She said it would be a long shot, but we could try waiting a week to see if diet alone would be enough for remission.
The plan is to test him again after a week of new diet and then make a decision about starting insulin.

The decision about starting insulin will have to be made based on 2nd test w/ lab at Vet.
However in the meantime, I obtained a human meter and tested at home and was just trying to see if the number I got at home (228) could give me any kind of predictor as to what I expect when we test him later this week at the vet to see if his numbers have dropped enough to forego insulin. It doesn't seem like 228 (however it relates to the vet-lab number) is a low enough number, but I will keep testing him right up to Thursday when we will test at the vet again. It could continue to go down with more days of no dry food.

I also realize that my home these numbers at this point are not going to give me anything on which to base a decision, but I keep doing it just because Thursday is a long time to wait without ANYthing to indicate what's going on with the cat on the new diet.

It also seems the best way to get some correlation between the vet numbers and my meter is to take my meter with me to that upcoming Thursday visit, and get a reading on my meter at the same time the vet takes the blood and then compare the two numbers.

The numbers on the human and the pet meters get closer as they get lower and further apart as they get higher.

Hmmm... FYI, FWIW, that statement seems to be the opposite of what I read on Wikipedia, which states:

"Absolute numbers vary between pets, and with meter calibrations. Glucometers made for humans are generally accurate using feline blood except when reading lower ranges of blood glucose (<80 mg/dl–4.44 mmol/L). At this point the size difference in human and animal red blood cells can create inaccurate readings."

Source of quote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_in_cats#Blood_sugar_guidelines

Don’t try and use both numbers from both meters or it will drive you crazy and it doesn’t work. Just choose one meter and use those numbers. I have always used the human meter and have seen hundreds and hundreds of caregivers use them and they have always worked. And our dosing methods are based on the human meter numbers.so my advice would be to stick with the meter you have.

Yes, absolutely. It's just that at the moment I am in the holding-pattern, and it would have been helpful to see if I could get anything useful, even just a hope or a trend, about what to expect on Thursday.

Beyond all this, my biggest concern at this point is the radical changes I'm seeing based on diet change alone. The vet and I are most concerned about rapid weight loss, and I am struggling to try to get him to eat even one 5 oz can a day of wet food. I'm also concerned that he is now not drinking ENOUGH water. The anxiety about these questions is compounded by the fact that the vet I am dealing with is only in on Thur and Fri, and the main vet is booked for the entire month. I can't even talk to anyone unless I wait until Thur, or try to get through to the main vet, who knows nothing about the case at this point. But I'm going to try to at least have a conversation with him today and get him involved.

I am also concerned about what dose to start him with, especially if his BG is significantly lower than it was a week ago as a result of dietary change alone. But this vet knows nothing about this website or the "SLGS/TR" recommendation. She just says all cats on Glargine start with 1 unit twice a day period.

Best,
Babz

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hi and welcome!

Yes a very common, very standard starting glargine dose that many vets are familiar with is one unit twice a day. But every cat is different. based on the progress with just a diet change alone it is possible that starting at less than 1 unit is a good idea.

I'll let one of the experts comment on that I do not give dosing advice. I'm no expert, Just a guy who will never be able to repay in full the debt I owe to the amazing wonderful knowledgeable people here at the FDMB.

I followed the tight regulation protocol and the guidance of the experts here and my boy Hendrick is now a diet controlled diabetic feline who no longer receives insulin injections! And we got there in only 6 months to boot!!

 

[Babz]

The anxiety about these questions is compounded by the fact that the vet I am dealing with is only in on Thur and Fri, and the main vet is booked for the entire month. I can't even talk to anyone unless I wait until Thur, or try to get through to the main vet, who knows nothing about the case at this point. But I'm going to try to at least have a conversation with him today and get him involved.

UPDATE: I got through to the main vet (the one who is booked for the whole month).. In the past, he was nice enough to give me his private cell number (although he had long forgot about it), so I was able to get right through to him.

He was very nice and answered all my questions.

He said that the numbers w/ the Home Human tester roughly correspond w/ vet reading except for the extreme upper and lower range. So our numbers going from a vet reading of 400 to home reading of 220-ish with no insulin and only a few days of dietary change, was a significant and encouraging step in the right direction.
He said that such a radical change in thirst/urination after just one day of dietary change was very encouraging. Surprising, but encouraging.
He said not to worry about how many cans of food he's eating a day, as long as he IS eating regularly and is not emaciated.

All great news. Now, if I could only get my SECOND home blood reading. So far I'm failing miserable today. Multiple sticks in the ear and no blood, and I managed to stick myself (!) before I gave up this round. But I'll keep trying!

Thanks everyone for being there!

Best,
Babz

 

[Babz]

Yes a very common, very standard starting glargine dose that many vets are familiar with is one unit twice a day. But every cat is different. based on the progress with just a diet change alone it is possible that starting at less than 1 unit is a good idea.

I'll let one of the experts comment on that I do not give dosing advice. I'm no expert, Just a guy who will never be able to repay in full the debt I owe to the amazing wonderful knowledgeable people here at the FDMB.

I followed the tight regulation protocol and the guidance of the experts here and my boy Hendrick is now a diet controlled diabetic feline who no longer receives insulin injections! And we got there in only 6 months to boot!!

Thank you for this helpful and encouraging information!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I remember those days, when we got our first sucessful blood drop I was so so amazed. Really, truly thought that it sounded impossible to get blood drops out of kitty's ear and do home BG testing not just once, but multiple times a day

congrats on your first successful test, many more are in your future I'm sure. Get the ear reallllllllllllly nice and warm first. Use a smidge of vaseline, if you get a tiny little blood droplet you can oftentimes massage or 'milk' the ear until that droplet is large enough for the meter.

 

[Babz]

I remember those days, when we got our first sucessful blood drop I was so so amazed. Really, truly thought that it sounded impossible to get blood drops out of kitty's ear and do home BG testing not just once, but multiple times a day

congrats on your first successful test, many more are in your future I'm sure. Get the ear reallllllllllllly nice and warm first. Use a smidge of vaseline, if you get a tiny little blood droplet you can oftentimes massage or 'milk' the ear until that droplet is large enough for the meter.

I suck SO BAD! I must have stuck him twenty times over the last two days. And I only managed to get a successful reading once! He hates me now. I hate me. I even tried going to a larger gauge (30) instead of 33. I think it just makes it more painful, and I STILL can't get blood! Another $15 down the drain.

Sorry. I know I'm not solving anything by whining, but I'm feeling exceptionally discouraged. If I suck this bad with BG readings, I can only imagine how bad I'm going to be when it comes time to start injecting insulin!

They say heat up the ear? Any tips on HOW? I tried to warm up a cotton ball in water. He hated that. Didn't seem to like anything wet in his ear.

The pin cushion battle continues..

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

a lot of people put rice in a sock and microwave it, we did that for a while but then switched to a usb-c rechargeable hand-warmer like this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FMSJ1NN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

also realize that my home these numbers at this point are not going to give me anything on which to base a decision

I think the numbers you are getting at home now will be more important than a one off test by the vet. Cats BG numbers bounce sound during the day and to see what happens over the period of a week I’d much more information that’s one test by the vet.
All your BG tests are excellent data and personally I would make a decision about insulin on those rather than the one test by the vet.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Now, if I could only get my SECOND home blood reading. So far I'm failing miserable today. Multiple sticks in the ear and no blood, and I managed to stick myself (!) before I gave up this round. But I'll keep trying!

Don’t give up.you must expect to fail a few times int eh beginning…we all did! You will get thee I promise. try some rice in a sock toe. Warm slightly in the microwave….make sure it is not too hot.
What size lancet do you have.a 26 or 28 is best.

As far as dosing goes, we need to see what the BG range is in the next week, but the usual starting dose is 0.5 units twice a day but there is possible to start lower if needed.

 

[Babz]

I have run across info online claiming Nettle Tea can help lower blood glucose in cats.

Has anyone tried it?

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I have not tried it myself. But I know that there are lots of homeopathic things out there claiming to help feline diabetes.

However, nothing is as effective as insulin therapy and it would be very risky to use anything while also giving insulin, imo anyway.

 

[Babz]

GOOD MEWS! (news)

After several days of failure, I finally managed to get another home glucose reading (HUMAN METER)...

158!!

This is with no insulin. Just 6 days of no dry food.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

GOOD MEWS! (news)

After several days of failure, I finally managed to get another home glucose reading (HUMAN METER)...

158!!

This is with no insulin. Just 6 days of no dry food.

That is a pretty good number for sure!

However, this number means more if we know what Hobbes ate today. How long before the test was the last meal, what was fed and how much of it?

 

[Babz]

That is a pretty good number for sure!

However, this number means more if we know what Hobbes ate today. How long before the test was the last meal, what was fed and how much of it?

Yes, of course. This reading was taken in the morning before eating. However, the original vet reading of 400 (vet lab test) was ALSO taken in the morning before eating.

Of course, I will attempt to take more readings throughout the day, assuming I have managed to refine my blood-taking skills enough to do so. We shall see.

To summarize the readings so far are:

403 (vet lab reading taken in morning, before eating, last Thurs)
228 (home reading w/ human meter after eating in middle of the day on Sunday).
158 (home reading w/ human meter before eating on Wed. morning, today).

Best, I've been able to do so far, but highly enouraging.
Tomorrow, he goes back to vet for another test and then we will make a decision about starting insulin. The hope is that his numbers may have dropped enough as a result of dietary change along to hold off on insulin for now.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

158 (home reading w/ human meter before eating on Wed. morning, today).

Ok so it was a "fasting BG" sounds like. How long (in hours) did Hobbes go without food prior to this morning's test?

just to warn you...it is highly unlikely that at least some insulin therapy is not needed. But I am optimistic! Can you remind me please, how old is Hobbes?

It is good to setup your signature line with information so people don't have to keep asking you the same questions repeatedly, btw.

 

[Babz]

Ok so it was a "fasting BG" sounds like. How long (in hours) did Hobbes go without food prior to this morning's test?

just to warn you...it is highly unlikely that at least some insulin therapy is not needed. But I am optimistic! Can you remind me please, how old is Hobbes?

It is good to setup your signature line with information so people don't have to keep asking you the same questions repeatedly, btw.

Probably like 8 hours.

Yes, the vet has stressed that going into remission from dietary changes alone is rare, and a long shot, but she has seen it before.

Of course, I am fully prepared to have to go with insulin. Have already found a source for the Lantus pen and needles, if that is what the vet orders after tomorrow.

Sorry, I'm new to this. What am I supposed to put in the signature?

Thx
Babz

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Sorry, I'm new to this. What am I supposed to put in the signature?

basic information about you and your cat, what food, what BG meter, etc. This post is a good guide:

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/

Of course, I am fully prepared to have to go with insulin. Have already found a source for the Lantus pen and needles, if that is what the vet orders after tomorrow.

What brand and type of wet/canned food are you feeding Hobbes? Can you post a picture? (upload feature is broken, drag-and-drop or copy/paste image into post)

The vet is going to draw blood and send it away to a lab again tomorrow and then make a decision based on that? IMO that is really not the best approach, to base that decision on such little data. That is only the 4th data point, and numbers at the vet tend to be higher due to stress. I would highly recommend you ask the vet to run a Fructosamine test. This is a test which is much more valuable in determining whether or not insulin therapy is truly needed.


@Suzanne & Darcy
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Wendy&Neko

Please review. Hobbes is a 7-year-old DSH and produced a 158 mg/dl on a human meter today after 8 hours without food. Not yet on insulin, diet change 6 days ago, kibble was eliminated and diet changed to all wet/canned food. Vet is supposedly going to make a decision on whether or not insulin is needed tomorrow after taking a singular BG test, I have recommended a Fructosamine test instead do you agree? Any other thoughts here?

No spreadsheet set up yet just, just three BG tests so far, two at home one at the vet.

 

[Babz]

So the vet is going to draw blood and send it away to a lab again tomorrow and then make a decision based on that?

To review what I said above:

"He was tested last week at the vet w/ lab result of 403. Vet recommended no more dry food, and insulin.
One day after no dry food, I spoke to vet and reported a radical change in water intake/elimination. She said it would be a long shot, but we could try waiting a week to see if diet alone would be enough for remission.
The plan is to test him again after a week of new diet and then make a decision about starting insulin.

The decision about starting insulin will have to be made based on 2nd test w/ lab at Vet."

So what happened was the vet tested last Thur. and found high glucose based on a urine test and said he is diabetic and we should eliminate dry food and he will have to go on insulin. She also sent out a full blood and urine panel to the lab.

I called the next day to get the results, reporting that in just 24 hours after eliminating dry food, his fluid intake/urination has radically changed. From like 8 softball-sized clumps in the litter box per day, to like 1 golf-ball sized clump. Based on that, which an encouraging/very surprising result. She said something like, "It is rare, but I have seen cats go into remission from only dietary change. So if you want, we can test him again in a week, before starting insulin, but it's a long shot."

In the meantime, I obtained a human home tester and got the readings reported. So, it is not based on one reading. It's based on a radical change in behavior + home tests + two lab tests... So far. Who knows what she will say at that point. She could order insulin immediately, or if the numbers are low enough she might recommend testing again in another week. Or something else...

Please review. Hobbes is a 7-year-old DSH and produced a 128 mg/dl on a human meter today after 8 hours without food.

158, not 128.

Not yet on insulin, diet change 6 days ago, kibble was eliminated and diet changed to all wet/canned food

Yes,

No spreadsheet set up yet just, just three BG tests so far, two at home one at the vet.

Never been a "spreadsheet" person. Find them generally confusing. Just keeping a pad and paper log so far.

I will ask the vet about "Fructosamine" tests tomorrow. The frustrating part is that I couldn't even get an actual appointment. Best I could get was "we'll squeeze you in somehow."

Best,
Babz

P.S. Seems too soon to set up a signature, since things are still evolving.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

P.S. Seems too soon to set up a signature, since things are still evolving.

please set up a signature it is a huge help to those trying to help you and answer your questions. No such thing as too soon for a signature!

P.S. there is a setting in your profile where you can hide your actual birthdate. Most people do not want this information on their profile due to privacy concerns.

 

[Babz]

I just tested for the second time today, at 5:30 in the evening, after he had eaten several times throughout the day.

New Test Result: 114!!!

(I believe the last time he had eaten was about 2 hours before (?).

So it was 158 in the morning (fasting at least 8 hours)
and 114 in the evening (after eating approx 2 hrs before)

Extremely encouraging!

He got a nice chunks-of-chicken food reward!

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I like the direction his numbers are going. It can take a few days for those higher carb foods to work their way out of his system. I think at this point, I'd keep testing for a few days and see if the trend continues.

To help with testing, there may be something in this post that helps. Hometesting Links and Tips

 

[Babz]

UPDATE: Spoke to vet in parking lot (I like to call it the barking lot, because there's often dogs being dropped off). I've not mentioned it, but the vet is my neighbor. I can see the parking lot from my back window, which way I am very fortunate in my current location. I can walk my cat over to the vet in 2 minutes. But I digress.

Quick consultation in the parking lot. I reported the numbers and she said that we can just keep testing him for now. I don’t need to bring him in today. I can continue with my home tests. She wants me to test at least 3 times a day and keep a detailed log, and she wants a detailed log of his food intake. She said, essentially, continue home testing for another week or two and we'll see.

She never said the words definitely “He is in remission. He won’t need to go on insulin.” And I suppose, it’s possible we may never get to a definitive point such as that. It may just be that he has to be monitored closely forever.

However, for now at least, no insulin. Strict diet with constant testing.

That is GOOD MEWS (news) for my furry beloved!

Thanks everyone for being there as such a vital resource through all the anxiety and evolving life-changing moments of this past week!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I will say that 7 is pretty young to be a diabetic feline. One of the youngest I've seen on here actually.

It happens, it's not unheard of, but at only 7 I tend to think that chances for remission are higher than an older kitty. So that would be great!

btw, what are you feeding exactly, what brand and type of food? Someone here can probably check to make sure it is low enough in carb content for you if you like, just to be sure.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

We've seen diabetic cats younger than 7, though typically they are middle aged. I've seen cats that are little more than kittens here too.

As far as diet goes, you may be lucky that you have been given a warning sign. He may have to stay on low carb food the rest of his life.

 

[Babz]

Turns out he is actually 9 years old or about just about to turn 9. I rescued him off the streets as a kitten in like Jan of 2014, but he was prob born in fall of 2013, so he's prob about 9.

So much has been going on the last week, so much new information to absorb, I was just estimating his age, and I now realize was underestimating his age. (I still think of him as that kitten! 9 is hard to imagine, but I looked up my records and now have the best possible estimate of his age.)

BTW, I tested him again this morning and got 113!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Oh okay.

Yeah my boy Hendrick was diagnosed at 10 years of age. We see a lot of cats here around 9 or 10.

 

[Babz]

I just took another BG reading and got 69.

69? Is that TOO low?

This is a human meter with a cat that has never been on insulin.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Cat not on insulin can read as low as 40 on a human meter. We don't want cats ON insulin to go below 50.

Sounds like your kitty is doing really well.

 

[Babz]

His most recent readings have been:

11/19 98 8AM; 62 3PM
11/20 78 9:30AM; 55 4:30 PM

This is a cat that has never been on insulin. Human meter. The AM readings are "fasting".

Should I be worried these numbers are too low? Do I need to report this to the vet?

The good news is, for the first time I was able to get blood and a reading with a single stick!

Thx

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

His most recent readings have been:

11/19 98 8AM; 62 3PM
11/20 78 9:30AM; 55 4:30 PM

This is a cat that has never been on insulin. Human meter. The AM readings are "fasting".

Should I be worried these numbers are too low? Do I need to report this to the vet?

The good news is, for the first time I was able to get blood and a reading with a single stick!

Thx

The numbers are not too low. They are normal numbers for a cat. Looking very promising!
Cats not on insulin don’t have hypos so don’t worry if the BG is sometimes lower than 50. That’s ok.
Keep testing before meals each 12 hours and sometimes during the cycles.
keep posting

 

[SasquatchLove]

Hi and welcome!

Yes a very common, very standard starting glargine dose that many vets are familiar with is one unit twice a day. But every cat is different. based on the progress with just a diet change alone it is possible that starting at less than 1 unit is a good idea.

I'll let one of the experts comment on that I do not give dosing advice. I'm no expert, Just a guy who will never be able to repay in full the debt I owe to the amazing wonderful knowledgeable people here at the FDMB.

I followed the tight regulation protocol and the guidance of the experts here and my boy Hendrick is now a diet controlled diabetic feline who no longer receives insulin injections! And we got there in only 6 months to boot!!

Hi ! So glad to hear Hendrick is diet controlled diabetic ! May I ask what food/feeding regiment you are doing ? Thank You ! I am hoping my Sasquatch is at that point too.

 

[SasquatchLove]

I suck SO BAD! I must have stuck him twenty times over the last two days. And I only managed to get a successful reading once! He hates me now. I hate me. I even tried going to a larger gauge (30) instead of 33. I think it just makes it more painful, and I STILL can't get blood! Another $15 down the drain.

Sorry. I know I'm not solving anything by whining, but I'm feeling exceptionally discouraged. If I suck this bad with BG readings, I can only imagine how bad I'm going to be when it comes time to start injecting insulin!

They say heat up the ear? Any tips on HOW? I tried to warm up a cotton ball in water. He hated that. Didn't seem to like anything wet in his ear.

The pin cushion battle continues..

Hi ! I understand your pin-prick struggles. I put cotton ball in warm water and try to drain most of it out of the cotton before placing it in his ear. The best vein in the ear/pinna runs along the very edge. I hold the cotton along the edge as to not upset all the sensitive hairs which grow on the inside of the pinna. My vet also has me use a small battery powered hair trimmer to remove the longer hairs. I place the cotton on the outside of the ear at the point where I'm going to stick, as to not get my finger. I'm always amazed at how close to the edge of the pinna I stick to get a good sample.

I hope this helps.....

Julie

 

[AbbottTheCat]

@SasquatchLove
@Babz

The sticky on Hometesting has some great tips. I have great success with the pill bottle technique (standard clear orange colored-white top bottle) to warm the ear. If you have a bottled water cooler it's perfect. I just use the hot tap on the water cooler and fill up the pill bottle about half way. The hot temp is just about perfect and the pill bottle has a nice smooth curve that fits snugly against the ear. If you don't have a water cooler you could use a microwave. If the water comes out too hot in the bottle then I hold the bottle with my index finger and thumb for 5 seconds and immediately transfer those two fingers to Abbott's ear, hold and rub. The heat transfers nicely from my fingers and then ready to prick.

You can also try to test your cat at a different place in the house and see if that helps. Also, turning off the beeping sound on the meter is advisable.
After some trial and error, I settled on testing him where I feed him, and it's no surprise this has worked the best. It's where he gets food and treats so he equates this spot as where the good stuff happens! He actually purrs through the entire testing process cause he knows if he's a good boy he's getting a treat.

I put his freeze dried treats into a vitamin bottle with a pop top.
I put the bottle in front of the auto feeder. he lays down and purrs cause he knows he's getting a treat.
But probably the biggest game changer for me was using the auto feeder with 4 timed meals. This way, he is already in front of the feeder waiting when testing time rolls around. I never have to go find him or pick him up or chase him down, he's always right there waiting. My testing time alarm goes off 5 minutes before timed feeder is scheduled. That gives me time to prep the meter, lancet, cotton round and pill bottle. I bring everything over to the feeder, test him, give a treat, and then feeder goes off and he eats. Granted, it wasn't always this easy, but gives you an idea of how easy it can be, especially once your cat settles into a routine and equates testing with positive things.

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

Hi ! So glad to hear Hendrick is diet controlled diabetic ! May I ask what food/feeding regiment you are doing ? Thank You ! I am hoping my Sasquatch is at that point too.

we feed raw homemade food made with raw chicken breast and pork loin using E-Z Complete powder.

We also feed Weruva varieties, Tiki Cat, one Fancy Feast variety (the lowest phos one, Savory Salmon Feast, 265 phos) and a small amount of Purina DM Savory Selects

 

[Babz]

Hi ! So glad to hear Hendrick is diet controlled diabetic ! May I ask what food/feeding regiment you are doing ? Thank You ! I am hoping my Sasquatch is at that point too.

Hi Julie:
The main thing was just eliminating dry food. Prior to this, he lived on almost exclusively dry food his whole life. He was a very picky eater, even about dry food. One time we tried switching from Purina Indoor Formula dry food to regular blue-bag Purina dry food and it took 2-3 days of refusing food before he would eat a different dry food. With wet food it was even worse. Once we found a particular type of wet food he would eat, we could never vary it, and he would only eat very little, like 1/4 of a 3 oz can per day.

Then recently we noticed excessive drinking and increase in lumps of scooping litter in the box. When he tested at BG 403 at the vet, she said no more dry food. Within one day of no dry food we went from scooping like 10 giant clumps of litter per day to like 1! Based on that, the vet suggested we could wait a week before starting insulin, and I began home testing and watched his numbers drop from 400s, to 200s, to 100s and two digits within a week.

So, for the last week or so he now lives on only the one kind of wet food he will eat, which is unfortunately one of the most expensive, Blue Buffalo Wilderness. I would gladly feed him any kind of wet food, if only he would eat it! He also now gets chunks of chicken as a food reward for putting up with the pin pricks in the ear. I have to be careful with that. He already looks forward to the chicken and sometimes has seemed like he would not eat the canned food, holding out for the chicken.

Best,
Babz

 

[Babz]

Hi ! I understand your pin-prick struggles. I put cotton ball in warm water and try to drain most of it out of the cotton before placing it in his ear. The best vein in the ear/pinna runs along the very edge. I hold the cotton along the edge as to not upset all the sensitive hairs which grow on the inside of the pinna. My vet also has me use a small battery powered hair trimmer to remove the longer hairs. I place the cotton on the outside of the ear at the point where I'm going to stick, as to not get my finger. I'm always amazed at how close to the edge of the pinna I stick to get a good sample.

I hope this helps.....

Julie

I'm getting better at it. Last two days I got a reading with a single prick. Tried the warm cotton ball, he doesn't like anything wet. Tried the rice in sock, he doesn't like the smell of it. What I now do it just cup my hand and warm the ear with my breath! The biggest problem now is I get a good drop and then he shakes his head! And there goes my bead of blood! Getting him to hold still is also a problem, because he's so excited about the chicken!

 

[Hendrick Cuddleclaw]

I'm getting better at it. Last two days I got a reading with a single prick. Tried the warm cotton ball, he doesn't like anything wet. Tried the rice in sock, he doesn't like the smell of it. What I now do it just cup my hand and warm the ear with my breath! The biggest problem now is I get a good drop and then he shakes his head! And there goes my bead of blood! Getting him to hold still is also a problem, because he's so excited about the chicken!

have you looked into rechargeable hand warmers? We found them to work very well.

 

[SasquatchLove]

@SasquatchLove
@Babz

The sticky on Hometesting has some great tips. I have great success with the pill bottle technique (standard clear orange colored-white top bottle) to warm the ear. If you have a bottled water cooler it's perfect. I just use the hot tap on the water cooler and fill up the pill bottle about half way. The hot temp is just about perfect and the pill bottle has a nice smooth curve that fits snugly against the ear. If you don't have a water cooler you could use a microwave. If the water comes out too hot in the bottle then I hold the bottle with my index finger and thumb for 5 seconds and immediately transfer those two fingers to Abbott's ear, hold and rub. The heat transfers nicely from my fingers and then ready to prick.

You can also try to test your cat at a different place in the house and see if that helps. Also, turning off the beeping sound on the meter is advisable.
After some trial and error, I settled on testing him where I feed him, and it's no surprise this has worked the best. It's where he gets food and treats so he equates this spot as where the good stuff happens! He actually purrs through the entire testing process cause he knows if he's a good boy he's getting a treat.

I put his freeze dried treats into a vitamin bottle with a pop top.
I put the bottle in front of the auto feeder. he lays down and purrs cause he knows he's getting a treat.
But probably the biggest game changer for me was using the auto feeder with 4 timed meals. This way, he is already in front of the feeder waiting when testing time rolls around. I never have to go find him or pick him up or chase him down, he's always right there waiting. My testing time alarm goes off 5 minutes before timed feeder is scheduled. That gives me time to prep the meter, lancet, cotton round and pill bottle. I bring everything over to the feeder, test him, give a treat, and then feeder goes off and he eats. Granted, it wasn't always this easy, but gives you an idea of how easy it can be, especially once your cat settles into a routine and equates testing with positive things.

Great information Drew ! I never would have thought to use a warmed prescription bottle ! I'll have to give that a try. Sasquatch doesn't mind the warm damp cotton ball, and it comes in handy protecting myself from getting pricked too.