High protein food--how high?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ruth & Beethoven (GA)

Ruth & Beethoven (GA)

Member
In various places on the site I see consistent references to a high protein/low carbohydrate diet for our sugar cats, at least for those with no other health issues. Also I understand that kcalories from carbs should be less than 10 percent of total kcalories. But how much is "high protein"? 40 percent? 50 percent? I can't seem to find that specific recommendation. Many people happily feed Wellness and EVO. Yet those foods are generally only in the 20s or 30s in terms of percent protein.

Here's a little background. I had a brief conversation with my vet last week and proudly told her Beethoven had now been OTJ for 4 months. She said that's great but that most cats in remission will eventually need to go back on insulin and that I should continue to test him (which I do). She then asked if I was still feeding him Hill's Prescription M/D. I said no, we feed him other canned food that is lower in carbs. She said "the literature" shows that cats fed the prescription diet stay in remission longer than those fed non-prescription food. I said I buy only the low carb food. She said it wasn't about carbs but really about high protein. Well, I just didn't want to argue further so I let it go, we finished the visit and I left. But I got to wondering about the protein. I do look at the protein and tend to buy foods with higher protein, but is there a number I should try for? There are many choices, and Beethoven has never met a food he didn't like, so I might as well give him what is best.
 
Aw, geez, Ruth! Your vet really needs to read Dr.Lisa's site because she has a shocking level of ignorance about feline nutrition. And she's not current on other things either.

MOST, but not all, cats in remission stay in remission until something, usually an underlying infection, tips them into a relapse. This is my observatiuon from 10 years here and my experience with my own cat. If you stick with the diet and Beethoven stays healthy (get those dentals when needed) you are likely to measure remission in years, as I did.

As for "the literature" it is produced by Hills, there is no such research produced by independant scientists, and don't forget that selling that junk is an important profit center for your vet.

Cats are OBLIGATE carnivores. Meat is protein and meat is what they need to be healthy. Your vet needs to read Dr. Zoran's editorial, it is housed at Dr. Lisa's site.

I'd print Dr. Lisa's site and Janet's charts for your vet and suggest she subscribe to VIN to get some real information. Sheesh!!!
 
What Gia said. http://www.catinfo.org/ and maxshouse.com are non-biased well-sourced feline diet sources. The ones coming from cat food companies (i.e. most funded ones) are remarkably high in carbohydrates as a base. Gee I wonder why.
 
Thank you for reinforcing what I already thought. I suspect that my vet's comments stem from her experience with her clients. Since she initially prescribed the Hill's and was fine with feeding the dry version, I assume she tells her other clients the same thing. Maybe that's why they don't do as well. While she did encourage us to home test, she had us doing it only occasionally and told us the best we could hope for was to regulate his FD at a BG of 150-200. That could have kept him in diabetic range and on insulin forever. She may think that any remission is simply a happy accident and that it won't hold. I love this board for showing me otherwise!

But I still don't know what protein content I should be aiming for. Did I miss something?
 
The reason your vet and Hills are touting low protein is because protein is more expensive than filler, therefore less profitable for them. Take a look at the mouse, almost 100 percent meat. Janet has a mouse on her old charts, or she used to, give her a shout for the precise figures.

The only time I have heard that reducing protein is beneficial is in the very late stages of crf. While there may be others I'm not aware of them.
 
The other issue with dry is that it is dry.....as in it can dehydrate your cat, contribute to or exacerbate kidney and other urinary issues.....and the protein has been cooked at very high temps so it is not necessarily as good as it would be in a canned form.....
 
Gia and Quirk said:
The reason your vet and Hills are touting low protein is because protein is more expensive than filler, therefore less profitable for them. Take a look at the mouse, almost 100 percent meat. Janet has a mouse on her old charts, or she used to, give her a shout for the precise figures.

The only time I have heard that reducing protein is beneficial is in the very late stages of crf. While there may be others I'm not aware of them.
Click to expand...

I may not have been clear. The vet did say it was important to feed high protein food. In fact, she said that was more important than low carb. I was just trying to find out how high is "high."
 
Yeah, but wouldn't high protein be negated by high carbs? Wouldn't you get more protein by having fewer carbs w/ even average protein?

Thanks for the talk about cats staying in remission. That's hopeful.
 
In Dr. Lisa article on "Feline Nutrition" she recommends over 40% protein, under 50% fat and under 10% carbs. You can supplement canned food with meat up to 15%, cooked chicken is about 50% protein, raw is less cant find my notes on that though. ED: 34% for raw, this is from Dr. Lisa's article on Obesity, lots of good info there even if you cat isn't fat. Also the one on Quality canned foods is a must read.

A mouse contains: 45-50% protein, 40-45% fat, 3-5% carbohydrates.
 
Right. See the mousie posts. 46% by calories is about right.

And your vet sounds like she's still drinking the Hill's Kool-Aid. High protein is not more important for a diabetic than low-carb. It is easier for Purina to add processed vegetable proteins to a fundamentally-carb-based food though. But a balanced diet (based on mice, not on pet-food-company bottom line), is good for any cat.

The best diabetic cat diet is exactly the same as the best regular-cat diet.
 
My "gut feeling" number is 45-55% protein, based mostly on prey values (and also on the knowledge that older cats tend to eat fewer calories than younger cats, so the food must be rich in needed nutrients, including protein).

(I'd be interested in seeing any published articles that shows that relapse from remission is more likely with prescription foods. Or even in-house studies that show that.)

Incidentally, the new Purina DM is lower in protein now, and higher in fat. I am not happy about that.

-- Janet
 
Janet & Binky (GA) said:
Incidentally, the new Purina DM is lower in protein now, and higher in fat. I am not happy about that.
Click to expand...
Me either (shaking my fist in the air with you). :smile:

Cat diets are composed of fat, protein and carbs [most cats don't drink alcohol]. If you have low carbs and keep the fat at a reasonable/medium level then the protein is going to have to be "high."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top