high doze prozinc - pmps 216 lowered dose to 6.5

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taffysmom

taffysmom

Member Since 2013
Oh my roller coaster taffycat
Its been a few weeks since I have posted but just wanted some input from our last couple of days. She has been at 7.5 units of prozinc for the last 10 days. Apparently she gets really bad diarrhea when she is stressed. She met her holiday pet sitter for the first time on Wednesday. Had diarrhea that night and all next day (Thurs). I mixed some pumpkin in her food, gave her a nausea pill and later on a Pepcid AC (also Thurs). Today (Friday) had a good solid (and huge) poo. Pet sitter came by again to feed and give her shot. By 10pm (Friday) more diarrhea. Gave another 1/4 Pepcid AC. I had tested taffy before the sitter came b/c she will not be able to test her (the cat won't let her get close to her ears but can give shot). she had 331. Just tested her at +6 and its a 105...little freaked out b/c haven't seen that low of a number yet but at the same time it's nice to see a low number for a change. I have lots of info in her spreadsheet (but could probably use a bit more) if someone could take a look.

About 5 weeks ago (just before Thanksgiving) taffy had a vomit/diarrhea episode which prompted a vet visit and lots more tests. Her panel came back normal with the exception on high BG. The pre-pancreas (pFPI???) test came back abnormal so it went on for further testing. Also had her tested for acro. Still waiting to hear back on those two.

I think the diarrhea is caused by stress but the pancreas thing could have something to do with it too?? She is not lethargic, she has zero loss of appetite, she plays with her mice, purrs and overall seems ok.

I am planning on testing her more randomly throughout day tomorrow. I think she is trying to tell me to not go out of town but we have to go.
She gets 2 cans of fancy feast chicken 2 times a day and freeze dried chicken treats.
Thank you for any input.

Just tested her again about 45 mins after the 103 reading and it is 101 - guess I wasn't seeing things
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

So your ss reads from bottom up - for a moment there, I was worried. :-D She has always seemed to be lower at night but yes, the recent blues are lower than you have seen. Where is the pancreatitis diagnosis? Does the vet think she has it or not? Has she been given anything for it? Untreated pancreatitis can be painful, certainly cause stress but generally causes inappetite also. Not having food in the tummy (diarrhea) can mean lower than usual numbers.

I am sorry. I don't know what to say. Will the petsitter be staying at the house or just coming in twice daily? It would be very scary to just have her dose the usual amount when she has so much going on. It would also make me nervous to lower the dose when she is on so much insulin. In either case, especially if your petsitter can't test. If she can't test, then you might get the litter that shows if the sugar in her urine is more than usual - that would be better than nothing.

I guess test today and see how things look. See if the vet would prescribe something for the diarrhea or if the Pepcid helped. Do you have her on any kind of a probiotic? Lots of people here like FortiFlora. Have you ever used the calming defussers that you plug in to help with possible stress?

It is always difficult to have a trip planned and then have your pet get sick. I wish I had more ideas.
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

She has not been officially diagnosed with pancreatitis. When she vomited, had diarrhea, and gray poop the week after Thanksgiving I took her in to be tested. Because her appetite has always been healthy and she doesn't act like she is in pain the vet kept telling me it wasn't her pancreas, yet I asked for them to test anyway (they did the quick test) and it came back abnormal. So then they sent It off for the more extensive test. I'm still waiting for results of that. She had normal poo for the last several weeks until we had visitor (the new pet sitter) - then diarrhea started that night and lasted until the next day. The Pepcid AC does seem to help stop it.

The pet sitter will just be coming in twice daily. I have not tried the foriflora but plan on getting some. it can't hurt right? Taffy did great with my other sitter (have used her twice but she is out of town over Christmas) no bathroom issues.

After the 100 reading last night her amps was 470 and tested 1.5 hours later and still 470. I have to run out and do shopping today but will continue to check her.
Thanks for your input...I know...I don't know what to think of her readings either. :?
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

Well. your am number could certainly be a bounce - from a lower number than she is used to last night. Any midcycle numbers you can get today will be helpful.
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

her +9 is 277. A 200 point drop from this morning. Think I should dial back her pm dose? maybe to a 6 or 7?
The vet and I did discuss the fact that she may be getting too much insulin but wanted to wait until the acro test came back before starting her back at 1 unit.
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

To help normalize the output, you could try 1/8 (start low) to 1/4 teaspoon of psyllium fiber (ex unsweetened, unflavored Metamucil) per meal with some extra water added. The fiber helps absorb excess fluid.

Some cats are helped by using a probiotic such as Intelliflora, Forti Flora, or a teaspoon or two of plain, unflavored yogurt with active cultures.

Gray stools, especially if "pudding poo" consistency, suggest a form of malabsorption. This can be due from infection, pancreatitis, or pancreatic enzyme deficiency. As an FYI: the test for enzyme deficiency should be done in a fasting state. Pancreatitis can damage the enzyme producing part of the pancreas, so it is worth asking the vet to check.
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

Thank you! I ordered the fortiflora today. Her pmps was 275 (spreadsheet updated) and we were going out for a few hours so I lowered her dose to 6 units. at +3.75 her number is 328. I will test her again around midnight which would be a +5.
Her normal schedule is 6:30 but the last few days I've been inching her to 7:30 to accommodate the pet sitter schedule.
I will ask about the malabsorbtion. It's not an everyday occurrence but it is the 2nd time over about 5-6 weeks it has happened (both times strangers, ie pet sitters, came into the house-which is too coincidental for it not to be stress related). I have tried the feliway but it doesn't have much of an effect on her. I've tried the calming treats too - nothing. I bought some happy traveler but haven't given it to her yet. A little hesitant to try something new on her right now since she seems to be hypersensitive to any change that goes on.
I guess more than anything I am trying to be proactive to ward off more serious things from happening but I also know I have little control over it. I also meant to pick up some Metamucil today (I had read about that in other's post) and forgot. Gotta run out tmrw so I will pick some up. One thing I think is happening on the few times I've given her a Pepcid AC is that it seems to slow the movement down. She is normally a 2x a day pooper and after giving it to her she goes once and it is huge. Hoping tomorrow will be a little more normal as I didn't give her anything tonight. Will see how the food flushes thru her.
Over the next two days what kind of data will help? Another curve? or did I mess that up by only giving her 6 units tonight?
I do have some of the glucose confetti to sprinkle in litter box - AH other strange occurrence I noticed is number of clumps in litter box. All of a sudden went for 5-6 down to 3 and don't seem as sticky. Once again it's a good thing but it's making me nervous like the calm before the storm.
 
Re: high doze prozinc - diarrhea + lower number than normal

Any data is invaluable, but for sure preshots and something between 5-7 hours after the shot.
 
:dizcat
got a normal poo today :) but her pmps was 216 ugh
so I dropped her down by 1 unit to 6.5 because I don't want her to go too low over night
will be testing a few times during the night I guess

the big question is what unit dosage do I tell the sitter to give her while we are gone??
 
I like your current idea of a lower dose for those 200s at pmps and a little higher dose for the higher numbers at amps. If you can continue to get data until you leave, we'll be able to help you figure this out better.
 
Thank you Sue! I sure will. I will get a couple of tests in tonight and then test tomorrow.
Any preferences other than a +5/+7? as long as I feed her those freeze dried chicken breast I can pretty much get blood from her whenever.
 
It is interesting that she drops late in the cycle. Sometimes that means the dose is too high. Might be helpful to have +8/10. If that pattern comtinues, you might drop the am dose also. The higher amps may mean there was a low drop overnight and a bounce, so any overnight tests would be valuable.
 
Scarlett....

Just a thought:
Is there any way that your pet sitter can contact you at shot time(s) when you are gone so you can advise her what to do? And if you have a question, you can post on the forum and get a response before telling pet sitter what to do?

Will she be jotting down notes regarding the info you usually post on your daily condo here?

I would try to get as much data (numbers) as possible on your ss before you leave. It is very important for us to have that info in case you need our help. :smile:
 
ok..I will get her at +3, +6, and +9 - hopefully my alarm will wake me up and not the DH

Hi Misty - yes she could contact me. However, taffy is a total wacked out cat. Her behavior is totally different with me than a stranger. She will practically beat me up and chase me around the house to get to her food before I put it down, but with someone new (like this sitter) she will be the nice little hostess and wait for her food to be put down. If she were to do that with me I would think something is wrong with her, but with someone else - totally normal. Yep I can get her to write down notes. She used to have a diabetic cat but didn't do home testing. My other sitter tried a couple of times to test taffy and she almost took her finger off. My poor girl has trust issues. Thankfully she lets them give her the shot. I found my sitters off of care.com and out of 15 responses, only 2 had experience giving insulin shots but none testing - not that taffy would let them do it anyway. So that's who I went with..thank goodness for that site or I would have been up the creek without a paddle. It took weeks for her to let me do it and that was bloody and painful process - for me (HA!).
 
Gayle,
You and I have already had our rounds on this. She is on high dose b/c she isn't responding to insulin like most cats on here - look at her spreadsheet. Lantus wasn't working for me or for her. I do not like the depot. She is much better on prozinc. I asked the vet about levimir - they won't give to cats (please dont tell me what is good for my cat when you don't check her history). Its Univ of Penn vet hospital - i'm not arguing with them on that...I like the prozinc and taffy's behavior is so much better than it was on the lantus. She has been tested for acro - waiting to get results back. She has never indicated any issues with pain and has not once lost her appetite.
 
After the holidays and after you get any tests back, take a look at these Insulin Dosing Options

If it does turn out there is a condition that needs to be accommodated, you and your vet may wish to consider something besides the common BID schedule to help control the glucose levels - Possibly Basal + Bolus, TID, or Chinking, depending on your schedule and your cat.

Personally, I'm finding ProZinc nadirs around +5.5 for Gracie and mostly wears off around +10. It did that in Spitzer, too, when I tried him on it. I'm considering an adapted TID schedule if I can work one out.
 
Blue said:
I did look at her ss, but do not know what her history in the last week has been. The ss doesn't have much in the way of data from which to know why changes were made. I have been following on the ss for awhile, as I do for several cats at high doses.
Click to expand...
That's the million dollar question - the only change was she met the new sitter and the sitter gave the pm shot the night she dropped down to low 100 numbers.
I am almost certain the stress of her meeting new people causes the diarrhea. She has always been high strung. she just doesn't like strangers in her space. But her numbers are a mystery.
I can't remember if the IAA test was done or not. When I get results back (hopefully in the next week or so) I will find out

Blue said:
your cat to see Prozinc is working better, so I assume she is acting better.
Click to expand...
Yep..that was what I meant. Her temper toned down a lot.

Blue said:
Pancreatitis is an area where I know a great deal, chronic as well as acute
Click to expand...
She has never been lethargic nor has she ever not had an appetite. However right before Thanksgiving (and after meeting her sitter) she had diarrhea and 1 vomit which I treated with Cerenia and Pepcid A/C. Even after her vomit she came wanting more food so I just gave her smaller portions for the rest of the day until she settled down. Next day - had the fPLI and acro test done. Vet initially said it couldn't be her pancreas b/c she was eating and acting normal - however it came back abnormal and she sent off for the more extensive pancreas tests (waiting to hear back on that too) Have you seen any cats to have pancreas flare ups that eat and act fine? She can't be the first one this has happened to and I read stress can make it flare up - which is where the whole meeting new people plays a part in it. IBD/IBS is an option too.

Not sure how I feel about dosing 3 over 2 times a day. My schedule will allow it but if I'm not around no one else's does so that would be a problem. And I am the only one who can test her and playing around with it too much without testing makes me too nervous.
Thank you Gayle..sorry if I got defensive - lack of sleep, nerves, and paranoia are not a good combination for me.
 
Hi Scarlett -

I'm Lu-Ann and my boy Grayson started out on Prozinc. His SS is in my signature, and you can click on the PZI tab to see how he responded to it. We did it all... high dosing, TID, even microdosing at first. It sometimes takes a few months for kitties to acclimate to insulin, so it doesnt surprise me that you see some ups & downs. Likewise, th pH level of Lantus often results in a sting at high doses (Levemir is pH neutral, which is why many high dosers opt for it).

Many people have successfully used a sliding scale for dosing PZI, which sometimes works well. G was usually flat pink, so I didnt use it. I did, however, do a re-boot, as I thought I had missed the dose. When his IGF-1 and IAA tests came back positive, we switched & climbed the dosing ladder... ultimately breaking through the resistance... also had SRT. He never stopped eating, but had a bout of IBD (as well as mega-colon). Fluids (lactose ringers) helped, different food (novel proteins - duck, vennison & rabbit), and he still gets 1/2 tsp Miralax BID to keep the ginormous poops moving well.

I'm happy to answer questions you may have. Rt arm in a cast, so pardon typos... I'll check back in on you.

Lu-Ann
 
Thank you Lu-Ann :) Right now I am just trying to figure out what to tell the sitter to dose her at while we are out of town since she took a drop the other night albeit a good number. I am thinking 7 for morning and 6.5 for evening but will see how rest of days numbers look.
 
Thank you all again for helping. I've calmed down some now and feel better about leaving even though I hate it - her numbers are back to what I am used to seeing and have set her dose at 7 for the sitter and will be checking in on her after each visit. After this crazy holiday-ness wears off and I get her back to 7.5 maybe I will see those blue numbers again. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays everyone!!
 
Those were just some options.

In high dose conditions, I have seen a bit of chinking or bolus R usage to get the severe highs down quickly while the longer acting insulin is just beginning to build up. You'll want to look at some of those spreadsheets and posts to read what and why they shot as they did.
 
That seems like a good plan for the petsitter. When you get back, you can get the results of her testing and decide where to go from there. Have a nice holiday.
 
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