Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming so..

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KimmyD

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...I'll just start here. I apologize if I'm too brief...I'm just quite overwhelmed & frustrated at this point.
Halo is my 5 y/o little angel. He was diagnosed with diabetes Aug 18th & we began Prozinc (3 units 2x day)
Halo is also FIV positive.
He was doing quite well, then on Oct 24th we had to up his dose to 4 units Bid.
He just doesn't seem to be improving a whole lot.
I switched him to a grain-free organic diet that (due to his new-found pickiness) ranges from Tiki Cat to Evangers to B.F.F to Fancy Feast...whatever I can get him to eat so I can give his insulin.
He gets roughly 4 oz canned 2x a day with Earthborn (dry food) about 1/3 of cup during the day for snacking.
I don't do blood checks at home yet because I keep getting the run around from vets as to whether I can use a cheaper glucometer from Walgreens opposed to the pricey Alphatrax.
I also give him 1-2 mg of Methl B12 & mix Chromium in with his wet food.
I'm about at my wits end...
I myself am recovering from a rare bone infection & have 4 other "rescue" cats that I'm trying to care for. To make things more complicated, Halo lives in my cottage/studio with another kitty...because the 3 kittys in the main house will not stand for an addition to the household & I can't have them fighting & end up with 5 FIV kitties.
Because of this, it makes monitoring him difficult.
Compounding things further...I love my vet...I hate the office. I have a hard time getting any time with my vet, she always is so busy & when I call the office end up feeling like we're an "inconvenience".
Can anyone atleast help me understand why, when he was doing so well on the Prozinc he would suddenly backslide?
I don't know if I'M doing something wrong...or what.
I'm sure this sounds like the ramblings of a madwoman...I might be at that point.
Thank you...any help would be appreciated.
Kim
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Hi KimmyD. Just stopping in to say "Welcome :-D " You have come to the right place for help.
Hang in there. It's almost 2:00am, where I am. I'm sure others will be along, tomorrow.
If you post often, everyday at least or whenever you can at first, we will help you to steer your Halo to better health.
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Hi Kim,
First things first. Forget the runaround about the "cheap meter" and the alphatrak. 99% of the people here use the "cheap meter", and they work just peachy. Mine (relion micro) costs 9 dollars at walmart. It was good enough to get my kitty Bob into remission, so yeah, they work!

My guess, but without numbers it is hard to tell, is that somewhere along the way while Halo was being treated, the dose went too high, and the "right dose" was missed perhaps.
First off, his dose was pretty high when you started. Do you know what his BG was like back then, and were there any other complications besides diabetes that made the dose that much? 1u BID is the "normal" starting dose. But sometimes they have to be started higher than that.

If you have any records of his readings from the vet, that would be very helpful to us.
One thing that can really be helpful is to eliminate the dry food from his diet (but not until we have a good idea of what his BG is right now). Dry food tends to be high in carbohydrates, and that's a bad thing for a diabetic kitty.
Check out the link in my sig that says "binky's" for lots of links to nutrition info. Ideally, you want to feed all canned low carb food with a carb value of less than 10%, even lower if possible. Fancy Feast is a good choice if you are feeding him the "classic" flavors. Most of them are lower than 5%.

When he's been tested at the vet, do you know if they ran a "fructosimine" test? If not, and they just did a single blood test, the numbers might have been skewed by "vet stress". Most cats don't enjoy the whole vet clinic experience, and they are stressed out at the time, which raises blood glucose levels.

How much does Halo weigh? Just trying to determine if he's getting enough, or not enough, food. Diabetic cats with numbers that are not regulated or controlled tend to need more food than normal.

Is he peeing excessively? Is the B12 for "neuropathy"?

I know, the site is overwhelming. Feline Diabetes is overwhelming at first. But stick with us! It does get easier. Testing at home is scary at first, but after a few tests, it becomes a routine that actually is a great bonding experience for you and the kitty. We can teach you how to do it.

For now, just take a few deep breaths and be very happy you have found this site. It's amazing, and everyone here is here because we were once in the same exact spot that you and Halo are in tonight. We all "made it through it" and now we take great joy in helping new people get through it too!

I think you'll be less overwhelmed really soon,
Carl (and Bob) in SC
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Hey Kimmy!

For starters....Breathe!

Okay I don't know your particular insulin as both of my diabetics were on Lantus, but others should be along by morning that do use your insulin.

So I'm just going to hit a few of the high points of what I'm seeing from your post.

1. You are on a good insulin...but your starting dose was probably too high to begin with unfortunately too much insulin can look just like not enough insulin. As well as if your dose was determined at the Vet's office then the bloodsugar reading they were getting if they were testing your cat's blood with a meter are numbers influnced by stress, especially if the place is as busy as you say it is...I'd be stressed in a place like that! :-D

2. The single best thing you can do for Halo is learn to testing him at home, not only will this give you truer numbers to best determine if he is getting too much or two little. And yes you can use a cheapo meter from Walmart. I,personally used the Relion Micro for my Maxwell until he went into remission a year ago, and I still use it to do spot checks on him. I also have a Bayer Contour that I use for my insulin dependent Musette. Both are great meters, just the strips for the Contour are more expensive. You absolutely don't need the pricey Alphatrax.

3) You already switched him over to a great diet...but I have a question for you...Did his backsliding start about the same time you switched his diet to low carb/high protein? If it did, I would highly suspect you need to reduce his dose, as I am willing to bet his bloodsugar dropped rather dramatically when you switched his diet, and he now needs much less insulin since he was diagnoised. But again the only way for sure is to test him at home. Most cats here need 1u twice a day or less. Now there are certain underlying disease that may require a cat to be on a high dose of insulin but most do not. My Maxwell is a BIG boy but he never needed more than 1 unit twice a day, for a very short time along with a diet change off dry to get him in remission. My Musette is already down to .75u right now. Also if you could completely eliminate the dry food his bloodsugar would go down even more, but you don't want to do that until you are testing at home so you can catch that sudden drop.

I also have 13 cats...11 non-diabetics, all of mine eat exactly what my diabetics eat, a mix of Fancy Feast classsics, Friskies pate, 9-lives pate and Walmart's Special Kitty. So all your cats can be switched over to the same diet to make feeding easier. I can't begin to tell you how much better even my 11 non-diabetics are doing on their new wet food diet. They are all sleek, shiney and muscular and full of energy.

Hang in there you are now in that best place you never wanted to be, but so blessed to have found. We will do our best to help you help Halo.

Oh and btw I already had my 11 non-diabetics before I adopted both of my diabetics as diabetics from this very board. If this was all that hard I wouldn't have set myself up for taking on not one but two. :-D

Welcome to the Family of Sugarcats and the people that love them!

Mel, Maxwell, Musette and the Fur Gang
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Kim,
I am relatively new to all this, so I am not going to give you any real advice but I will tell you my experiences. My cat, Missy was dx'd in March of this year. After a diet change and insulin, she went off the juice in mid-April. She was fine (with weekly monitoring) until early August. She started begging for more food, so I checked her and she was high. I started her back on Lantus mid-August and since then she has been unregulated. I had her in to check for a UTI, on antibiotics (she has had acne on he chin since before he was dx'd) and then on metronidazole for diarrhea that wouldn't resolve after the antibiotics.) she continues in high numbers.
It is my suspicion there is an underlying health issue that caused her to relapse and to be difficult to regulate. I plan to have her teeth cleaned soon and see if that is a contributing factor, altho she was ok in June.
My understanding is that health issues and stress can cause a kitty to backslide even after doing well for a while.Missy was OTJ for almost 5 months.....and nothing I know has changed..not food or routine. You cat might be getting 'contraband'. A neighbor might be feeding your cat and you don't know, or your cat might be getting into some food source that is high in carbs...or there may be a stressor or health issue that is contributing.
I just am throwing out ideas. I may not be right.....I haven't figured out why my cat relapsed, so really not in a position to advise, but I feel your pain and sympathize with your confusion. I just had some blood work done on her and she has mildly elevated liver enzymes, which could have an impact. We have her on Denamarin for liver support right now.
I would suggest having some tests run to rule out any health issues and look to see if there are any stresses in your kitties life you can eliminate.
I will also mention that I use an AlphaTrak meter, but it IS expensive to use and I am considering swapping to a human meter. The strips are pricey. I think it is not as important to be utterly accurate, all the meters have variances, but I think the biggest thing is to track trends. Whatever meter you use, you can track trends. You can find the nadir regardless of the scale.
I just have to say to take all this with a grain of salt, but maybe you can glean something you can apply to your situation....
I wish you all luck with your kitty. I wish I had more to offer you, but I certainly can sympathize with your frustration and confusion. :roll:
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Welcome!
I just wanted to mention that my FD cat is about the same age as yours and went into remission after a month on Lantus and a diet change - which included taking away the dry food (gradually). I use a relion micro meter from wal mart, and like Carl said $9 for the meter and $20 for 50 strips. we still test - n fact I should go do that before I go to work.

Best wishes - don't let your vet disuade you from home testing with what you can afford. It's better for your kitty!
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Hi Kim and welcome to FDMB,

The starting dose of 3u BID was kind of high, and with the diet change and dose increase, your kitty is probably now getting TOO MUCH insulin.

Definitely get the Walmart human meter - you need to start testing your kitty's blood sugar at home, and hopefully he will not need insulin much longer after you start testing. The only way to know for sure, is to start testing. It is a little tricky at first, but you and kitty will soon learn and it will be easy.
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

If you dislike WalMart, the same meter as a generic is the Glucocard 01 which may be obtained from American Diabetes Wholesale

That site has decent prices for many diabetic supplies - strips, meters, urine testing strips, and syringes.

You should pick up some urine ketone test strips (ex. KetoDiastix) at your local pharmacy so that you can monitor for ketones. These show up when there isn't enough insulin on board to handle the carbs being consumed and send the cat into ketoacidosis, a potentially fatal condition.
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Hi Kim & Halo,

I totally understand the "madwoman" feeling!! I am new here too and I cannot even describe the sense of relief and reassurance I have gotten from folks on this board in the last two weeks. You're definitely in the right place and will feel better about all this soon. Once you start hometesting you will feel so much more in control of things.

Welcome!
Avery & Turtle
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Thank you so much already!
Halo's "underlying" health issue is the FIV...which seems to be a mystery to the vets as to exactly HOW it may affect his diabetes tx.
Here's something I'm wondering since so far the consensus is that the dose is pretty high... if the dose is too high wouldn't he exhibit HYPO symptoms?
He's bright & playful...although his life has changed alot. He NO LONGER gets to go outside, for example.
I did notice more water gone from the bowl this morning, but that's always difficult because there's two of them in the cottage.

His dry food is grain-free all organic. This morning he had straight salmon...and I left 1/2 can of Evangers out in hopes he'll eat more later. He ate enough salmon to atleast get his insulin.
I will post his original numbers & the curve from Sept later tonite.
I will also go get a meter today! I've never done the ear prick...but I'll figure it out. Thank god he's an easy-going cat
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Not necessarily would he so hypo signs right away, because the body has a very good mechanism for self-presevation...when the bloodsugar starts dropping too low the liver will release stored sugars to protect itself from dropping too low, thus spiking up the numbers. This is known as rebound or a bounce. Right now if he is still getting some dry food that is very high in carbs it is very likely keeping him from hypoing but it is also causing him to stay in that state of going too low, releasing stored sugars, shooting way up.

That is why we say that too much insulin can look exactly like too little until you start testing at home and looking for trends.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

I have noticed that he's been really tearing into the dry food. Where do I look for the carbs? I know it's 44% Protein 20% fat? Being grain-free I'd assume that it's low carb.
So it sounds like the FIRST thing I need to do here is get a meter & commence testing?
Guideline suggestions?
Do I test right before his injection? Then how long after?

Thank you all so, so much!

Even the vet I used to work for "blew me off" about questions. How can you do that when such precious, innocent little lives are at stake?
 
Re: Hi, we're new here. This message board is overwhelming s

Hi Kimmy,

Just a quick answer about testing cause I've gotta go. Yes, test before the shot & try not to give him any food 2 hours before since the food will increase his BG. I have the Wal Mart Relion & love it, price is good for strips also. The one BJM mentioned is the same but since it's mail order it will take awhile to get it. You can always order strips from ADW later. I hope you have a Wal Mart nearby & can get a meter today. Getting his BG yourself will tell alot, the readings from the vet are always elevated due to stress. I think your kitty is probably getting too much insulin & the dry food is keeping him from going hypo. Don't change that food though until you can check BG yourself then post his numbers here & someone can help you with the dose. You don't want to put him on a low carb diet & continue to shoot that much insulin without testing, the possibility of him going hypo will be very real if you do that. I also use Pro Zinc, you can post over on the PZI board but there's not a lot of traffic over there so continue to post here also for now so you can get answers quickly, especially about the meter & stuff.

Barbara
 
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