Hi! Newbie using PZI

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Meowluv

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Hi everyone! My cat Ferdinand was diagnosed in March and we are using PZI. He is on 4 units in the am and 4 units in the pm. Since we are transitioning to canned food his numbers seem to be going down some, and we feel like he is improving. Just wanted to introduce myself and say hi.:)
 
Welcome (what's your name? ) and Ferdinand! This forum has lots of people who are familiar with ProZinc and can help you. It is a much smaller forum than Health so it you ever have an emergency, post there.

One thing I see on your spreadsheet is that you are giving quite a bit of insulin and then skipping the second shot. PZI works best if given twice daily, 12 hours apart. When he gets one shot, then that higher dose takes him down too low for a pm shot. Once he is 24 hours since the first shot, he zooms back up again. It must feel like a roller coaster! Would you consider reducing the dose to half the dose and see if he stays in better numbers and allows for a second dose daily?

Here is a document with lots of info and links about how PZI works:

http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

The change to wet food should help his numbers so I am glad you are testing.
 
Hi and welcome to you and Ferdinand,

Cudos to you for testing!

I agree with Sue that 4 units is alot of insulin. Most PZI kitties rarely get to a dose that high without other underlying conditions or issues. Did your vet start you at that dose or did you start lower and increase along the way?

Also maybe it's just me but your spreadsheet only goes through April 30. Is there another tab for May?

Only being able to shoot insulin every 24 hours can set you up for some wild cycles and leave Ferdinand without any insulin for half the day, it is much easier on his body if he could get 2 shots per day. Are you testing for Ketones?

Again welcome, please ask any questions that you have. We'll do our best to answer them.
 
Hi all! Yes there is another tab for May on the spreadsheet. Also I am giving him his shot every 12 hours. Not sure where you all are only seeing one shot lol. The vet started him out on 2 units and then increased his dose. He was getting 5 units at night but is now getting 4.:) Other than allergies he has no underlying issues. I'm really hoping to see his numbers go down soon.

Melody
 
On Thursday May 9th Ferdi received 4 units at 9:05 PM. I did see however that my ss does not appear to be updating. It doesn't have all the data for yesterday and today. GRRRRR I will have to see if I can fix that.
 
Okay. So you're giving 4 units am and pm. The next thing to figure out is what his numbers are like midcycle. Could you get some numbers tomorrow?

What is he eating?
 
I might be able to test him more today. There is a lot going on in my life so testing him frequently is hard to do. Also I try to be conservative with the test strips as money is beyond tight right now as dh is unemployed. I'm a grad student and not currently working plus we have two children.:)

He is eating wet food predominantly now. I am mixing less and less of his dry food in with it. The dry I am feeding is Science Hill M/D for diabetics. The canned food is either fancy feast or 9 Lives. Right now it is 9 Lives as that was the least expensive of the two.
 
What meter are you using for testing? Maybe someone has some test strips they could send to help you out.
 
As i look at your ss, you are getting some low preshots. On Thusday 5/9. You had a pmps of 166 and skipped. To have a 166 after 12 hours may have meant he went very low midcycle. On 5/9, you had a pmps of 260 and skipped. I would have shot, but a lower dose. Ditto Friday am - lower number, lower dose.

I think I'd lower the dose and get two good preshot numbers 12/12. But today should tell us. If you want, just get a +3 and 6. That should give us an idea of what is happening.
 
Happy Mothers Day. You do have a lot going on right now.

The test strips can be crazy expensive, what meter are you using. The Walmart Relion Prime or Confirm/Micro have the least expensive test strips available, the Prime strips are about $9 for 50. Every little bit can help.

Since you are phasing out the dry food you will want to stay on top of his bg's as they can fall when the high carb food leaves his system and his insulin needs will drop.
 
I am using the meter from Kroger's. 50 strips are about 20.00. We are getting some help from DCIN so I think we will be ok.:) So grateful for them!

I just took a bg reading and his levels are 137. Which of course is great! My vet would like to see them regularly at 140. I have skipped shots when his numbers are low because I don't' want to give him an injection and then he get to low. I'm very new at this and don't want to kill my cat lol.
 
I agree with not shooting low numbers. But with the dose you are on, he is high at amps and low at pmps, skips and then goes up for 12 more hours. We want to see a smile shaped curve from every amps to the next. Higher at amps, lower at +6, up again by pmps. He has a 24 hour smile - high at amps, lower, lower till pmps, then higher, higher and back up by the next morning. It must feel like a roller coaster. I would encourage you to reduce the dose so you have 2 shootable numbers twice a day. You run the risk of him hypoing when he is only at 167 12 hours after the shot - the likelyhood is that he was very low earlier in the cycle. When PZI lasts longer than a 12 hour cycle, it is a good indication that the dose is too high.

. Would you consider lowering the dose to see if you get two nice shootable preshots 12 hours apart?
 
I wouldn't care to lower the dose but this is what my veterinarian has suggested so I am reluctant to change without her approval. Most days he is high enough at both shot times to receive a shot. There have only been a few days I believe that he hasn't been that high.
It would seem odd to lower the dose when his numbers are high. However I'm really new to this and still somewhat confused by a lot of it. I'm certainly open to advice and suggestions.:)

Melody
 
I understand wanting to follow your vet's instructions. You might consider, though, that it is possible for vets to be out of date, what with all the different diseases for all the different species they treat. A refresher on Feline diabetes might be useful for you and your vet to review.

Here are the Americal Animal Hospital Association Feline Diabetes Guidelines

Also, it helps to understand the insulin you are using - how long it lasts, when it has its peak action. Here's some basic reading about using ProZinc/PZI type insulins.

Most important: in the cat, Prozinc generally lasts 10-12 hours. This means unless 2 shots are given each day, as many as 14 hours may be getting no insulin, putting your cat at risk for diabetic complications from excess glucose levels.
 
BJM,
Thanks for that link! I am going to review it as soon as I get a moment. My vet is primarily an equine vet however she does treat some small animals. One of her good friends is a feline diabetes specialist and they have consulted numerous times on Ferdi's case.

I did not realize however that ProZinc works like that. Thank you so much for that. I really love this message board! It is helping me to help my cat so much.

Thanks again,
Melody
 
Last night Ferdi's pm bg reading was 271. I game him 4 units. This morning his reading was 286 and I gave him 3 units. I am going to retest in about 30 minutes or so and see where he is at. I would love to be able to get him down to 3 units am and pm!

My vet would like to see him consistently around 140. Is that what most vets shoot for? What sort of bg levels do some of you all that have been able to regulate your cats see?

Melody
 
We generally consider a cat well regulated if they are in the mid 200s at ore shot and double digits mid cycle, but not below 40 which is hypo territory.
 
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