Hi- New To The Board and I have questions!

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Becky56

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Hi- I am new here and fairly new to diabetes. My cat, a 6 year old female American Bobtail- Bobbie was diagnosed a few months ago after loss of appetite, weight loss and almost a week in the hospital with pancreatitis.

She seems stable right now and seems to have recuperated from the pancreatitis. But I have so many questions. My vet who is concerned, but young and I think inexperienced, really doesn't have the answers I need. I look forward to getting my answers here as y'all seem to have a lot of knowledge and experience with feline diabetes. We have a home monitor and just started testing yesterday.

Should I ask questions in this thread or begin a new one?
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

Your welcome to ask all the questions you like in this thread. If we can't answer it here, we will either point you in the right direction or ask you to start an new thread with a title that will catch the right eyes to get you the answers you need.

Welcome to the family,
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

This thread is great for questions. Let me give you some resources that might be helpful:

Frequently asked questions: FAQs

If you read through the site, you'll see we have a protocol that has worked to get thousands of cats into regulation and often remission. We feed wet lo carb food:
Why: www.catinfo.org What kinds: Janet and Binky’s chart We give mild, long lasting insulin like Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc. We test our kitties at home so we can see how the insulin is working: Video for hometesting

Ask lots of questions and do lots of reading. Everyone who answers your post is paying it forward because someone helped them when they were new and scared.
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

Thanks for you welcome. Bobbie was diagnosed at the vets when she had an initial reading in the mid 300s. He said it could be high because she was stressed over being in the hospital. We brought her home and returned in 2 weeks to be retested and she was in the mid 200s.

So he started her on humulin N every 12 hours. she gets up to the 4 line on a 1/2 ml cc syringe.

He put her on Science Diet prescription food W/D. She doesn't like it. She always had a good appetite before and bordered on being overweight. She has regained very little of the weight she lost when sick and she had gotten very thin with her sides caved in at 9 lbs- she is a big boned girl- her brother is huge at 20 lbs and he too is large but not quite what you would call fat.

But overall since we got her home and on insulin she has almost returned to her old self.

Sunday she got on one of her spells of not eating. so when she didn't want to eat Mon morning, I gave her some regular Friskies dry like the others eat and she ate it up. I checked her sugar about an hour after she ate and it was 108. I didn't giver (for the first time) her morning shot. After lunch I checked it again and it was 110. Since she had good numbers and no insulin, I gave her Friskies classic Pate in the evening(like the other 5 eat )and she gobbled hers up. I checked her sugar after and it was 158 so I gave her her shot.

This morning, I gave her the regular dry and her shot and am planning to check her sugar midafternoon before feeding her.

The feeding schedule we have been on is dry RX food only(she doesn't like the canned), she is fed at 10 am followed by a shot, then at 3 pm, and again at 10 pm followed by her shot.

My plan for now is to switch her back to Friskies if her readings stay good as she doesn't like the rx food. And to continue with her shots and hopefully her sugar will stay down on the reg food and shots. She only eats enough of the rx food to barely maintain her weight. and it gives her diarreah. already just in 24 hours her stools have gone from liquid to normal.

I would love anyone's advice and input on what am doing.
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

Becky56 said:
Thanks for you welcome. Bobbie was diagnosed at the vets when she had an initial reading in the mid 300s. He said it could be high because she was stressed over being in the hospital. We brought her home and returned in 2 weeks to be retested and she was in the mid 200s.
Click to expand...

Vet stress can increase blood glucose levels. Was a fructosamine test to determine the diabetes? A one time instant blood gluocse test doesn't tell much other than what the blood glucose level is at that very moment.

So he started her on humulin N every 12 hours. she gets up to the 4 line on a 1/2 ml cc syringe.
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Humulin N isn't the best insulin for a diabetic cat. It's too short acting for many cats. Blood glucose levels go up and down all day and a cat doesn't feel great. Here's the N primer: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303

4 units twice a day of any insulin is way too much to start with, unless your cat has another medical condition which requires a huge dose of insulin (such as acromegaly or cushings).

Few people use the 1/2cc insulin syringes:
Insulin50.jpg


The 3/10 cc ones are best for most diabetic cats:

resource.aspx


You can use the 1/2 cc ones for now. When you need to buy more, get the 3/10 cc ones with half unit markings.

He put her on Science Diet prescription food W/D. She doesn't like it. She always had a good appetite before and bordered on being overweight. She has regained very little of the weight she lost when sick and she had gotten very thin with her sides caved in at 9 lbs- she is a big boned girl- her brother is huge at 20 lbs and he too is large but not quite what you would call fat.
Click to expand...

Probably one reason why your cat's blood glucose levels are high and 4 units of insulin is needed. W/D is very high in carbs which keeps blood glucose levels really high. If your cat doesn't like it , don't feed it :smile: Many commercial canned foods are better for your cat and easier on the wallet. Fancy Feast and Friskies are two popular brands. There are many others.

The feeding schedule we have been on is dry RX food only(she doesn't like the canned), she is fed at 10 am followed by a shot, then at 3 pm, and again at 10 pm followed by her shot.
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Keep trying to get her to eat at least some canned. Try different brands, textures, flavors, etc. You can even make canned food more appealing by sprinkling low carb treats on top or using FortiFlora or powdered chesse or stinky tuna.

Most people give their cat small meals throughout the day with a timed feeder. A diabetic cat is alwas hungry and should have small meals available.
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

I had read that Humulin is not a good insulin for cats. I believe this is part of the vet being inexperienced with diabetes.

I have never had any problems getting her to eat Friskies canned. Before, they were free fed dry all day and had a small portion of canned classic pate in the evening.

One of my main questions is- will it be ok to put her back on the friskies? Is a mix of canned and dry feedings ok or should we get her on canned only?

I just bought a box of syringes but will buy the recommended kind next time.

Do you recommend I continue to monitor her readings and lower her insulin dosage? Could being too low and having food she doesn't like and diarreah be why she isn't quite up to par yet?
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

Hi Becky,

I personally have 12 cats of which 2 are diabetic, everybody here eats exactly what my diabetics eat, just old fashioned Friskies Pate style canned food. I also feed 4 times a day, breakfast at 7am when Musette gets her insulin, then lunch at noon, dinner is served at 5pm and then right before we retire for the night at 10 pm. Maxwell my first adopted diabetic is now in remission on this diet change, and Musette who I just adopted as a diabetic is down to a very tiny dose of .5u of Lantus and doing very well. The other thing that I have noticed since we switched everyone's diet over to Friskies canned food, is how much better my nondiabetics are doing. They are simply lovely cats, coats are soft and sleek, they have more energy and litter box useage is way down as well as a couple that had allergies and tummy problems have had those go away too.

So at least for me, what I'm not spending in extra meds and litter way makes up for the slightly higher cost of feeding dry. I have happier cats and still spend less to feed the herd than I did before. And for the record, not a single one of my 12 would touch that DM stuff...lol. And I have one here that I figured would eat anything not nailed down, but evenhe turned his nose up to the prescription stuff.

So you are fine to go ahead and feed everyone the canned Friskies, just want to stay away from the stuff in gravy.

Also the insulin you are using is a pretty harsh and short duration insulin in cats. Most of us here use a longer lasting and more gentle insulin like Lantus, Levermir, or PZI. And your vet has Bobbie on a really large dose for someone that is newly diagnoised and with no higher numbers than she had when first seen. Maxwell was 485 when he was diagnoised and never went over 1u (first little line) twice a day and within just a couple of weeks he was off insulin altogether. Musette has a few more health problems to get through so she is still on insulin but only gets .5u twice a day. Now both of mine are/were on Lantus. So I'm not to familiar on how N works other than when my first Sugarcat Muse was started on it, and it would hit her very hard early on and would be worn off in about 4-5 hrs.

Do you think it is possible to talk your vet into changing her insulin to a gentler, and longer lasting one?

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: Hi- New To The Board

I agree with Mel. Ask for Lantus (well, that's my vote). Cedric took it for a month and now he is diet controlled (canned only, see below).
My vet has a diabetic cat & dog at home, but I think I might have taught him a couple of things thanks to the helpful people here. They are surprised that he got off the juice so quickly (they were expecting him to go into remission, just not so soon).
 
W/D is old school, loaded with carbs and is usually used for weight reduction in cats, as is R/D. It is no wonder she isn't gaining weight back on W/D. I am so glad you are hometesting if you are using N insulin. personlly, I would suggest testing her before every shot, feeding only canned food, and starting over at 1 unit of N, when necessary, until you see if she is going into remission or will need to be on insulin. If insulin is going to be a continuing need, I would also suggest switching to Lantus (Glargine). Starting dose of 4 units of N is way too high. Hopefully, you will learn and then be able to help teach the vet about food, etc.

I think that dry food has been keeping her safe right now with that dose so please, lower the dose when feeding all canned. Also, with N insulin, food should be given at least a 1/2hr before shooting so test her, feed her, and then wait a 1/2hr. N is fast acting, short duration insulin.
 
Thanks Hope- I have been thinking of doing what you suggested- started today. She has had a good appetite all day today and cleaned her bowl each of the 3 times I fed her. I gave her dry Friskies this morning. And her regular shot. I fed her 1/2 can friskies pate mid afternoon and when I tested her about an hour later she was 49. Tonight I gave her another 1/2 can and gave her a reduced dose shot of 2.

Tommorow I plan to feed her the same way and she what she reads.

It will be so good not to have to worry about feeding her that W/D food that she doesn't care for. Once I am sure she won't need it, I'll let the other 5 have it. Silly kitties, they line up outside the bathroom door and gobble up every morsel Bobbie leaves. They think she is getting something special they missed!
 
That 49 is in dangerous territory......how long after her shot was she at 49? Also, did you test her tonight before feeding and shooting those 2 units? Just removing the W/D and going canned removes a lot of carbs and if she went down to 49, you will definitely need to test her in the a.m. before any food and insulin. I would also test her before going to bed tonight if you are still up.
 
okay. I just checked and she is at 88. If anyone reads this before 10 in the morning, her next feeding time, what reading am I looking for if I check her before eating? After? How high should it be before I give a shot? This afternoon at 49 she was walking around and going to my neighbor( who gives her shots when we are away) who was visiting for head scratches.I am getting so confused.

She is acting like she feels so much better today.
 
Anyone else questioning whether Becky's cat even needs insulin?

On a fast acting insulin like N, she should not get a shot if her blood glucose is under 200. That is why you must check her blood glucose before giving a shot.

88 and 49 are non-diabetic numbers. N is capable of bringing blood glucose down to its lowest level fairly rapidly, within 5 hours after the shot, even earlier if it is too much insulin. How many hours after she received her morning shot was the 49? And several members have noted that 4U was too much and I caution that even 2U is too much, from the looks of these few blood glucoses.

So glad you are being proactive and testing! That will help you keep her safe.
 
How many hours after shot is that 88? Test her in the a.m. before food, food raises bg up, and right now I wouldn't shoot her unless she is over 200. I would also lower the dose down from 2 units to 1 unit. If you feel okay with it, and you are home to test her during the day, and she is at 150 for the morning test, AND you are going to shoot only 1 unit, then go ahead with that. Just make sure you have test strips and that you aren't getting low on them.

Years ago, when it first came out on the board about dry food, I removed all of Baby's dry food that she nibbled on, she was fed canned twice a day. In less than 4 days she dropped from needing 3.5 units down to needing only 1 unit.

Strongly suggest you post here in the a.m. asking for help on whether or not to even give insulin.
 
When she had the reading of 49 today-

she ate dry friskies at 10 am and had her shot of 4 units right after she ate. at 3 pm she had 1/2 can classic pate and i tested and got the reading of 49 about 4:30pm. So it was about 6 hours after her shot we got that reading.

Tonight, she ate another 1/2 can of pate at 10 pm, had her shot of 2 units right after and I got the reading of 88 about 11:40 pm.

No shots in the morning before i check her sugar and report here! :mrgreen:
 
Becky56 said:
When she had the reading of 49 today-

she ate dry friskies at 10 am and had her shot of 4 units right after she ate. at 3 pm she had 1/2 can classic pate and i tested and got the reading of 49 about 4:30pm. So it was about 6 hours after her shot we got that reading.

Tonight, she ate another 1/2 can of pate at 10 pm, had her shot of 2 units right after and I got the reading of 88 about 11:40 pm.

No shots in the morning before i check her sugar and report here! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Can you check her BG again? It's been about an hour since the 88.
 
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