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Anonymous
Guest
i took a look at you ss. waiting to see pmps and hoping for the best but worried if you lose your resolve to hold back on the big shot. do i need to get my handcuffs out? :lol:
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Nicole and Napoleon
Very Active Member
I'm sticking it out Lori. It's hard, but I am riding this one out... No big shot, no big shot 
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Anonymous
Guest
oh boy, saw that +6 spike. I contacted D and Noisy becuase I think they have experience with liver retraining on chronic rebound. It would be good to have another pair of eyes on this. She is Lantus so I hope she will respond and be familiar like I heard she was.
hoping these #'s will smooth out with a couple of cycles of a non threatening dose.
hoping these #'s will smooth out with a couple of cycles of a non threatening dose.
D and Noisy
Very Active Member
General Noisy was honored to be asked to visit Napoleon. However, I would not call myself an expert.
IMPORTANT, I know near to nothing about PZI so take the following comments with that in mind. I do not see chronic rebound in your spreadsheet. I see a touchy liver before dropping dose to start over, in Lantus we call this a bounce. It can take as long as 72 hours for a bounce to clear -- most clear within 48 hours. Noisy's bounces could take 48 hours to show up. So when looking at SS keep that time-frame in mind as you trace back to see where a number could have caused a bounce.
If BG numbers drop fast or go lower, than the cat has seen recently, the liver thinks the body is in danger and releases counter regulator hormones (sugar). In Lantus, we keep showing the cat the lower number to "train" the liver -- we affectionately call this "liver training school". After the kitty has more visits to the lower numbers, the liver chills out and doesn't panic at the sight of a lower number.
I had been working on some illustrations to help but haven't finished them. This one might be good for Napoleon.
IMPORTANT, I know near to nothing about PZI so take the following comments with that in mind. I do not see chronic rebound in your spreadsheet. I see a touchy liver before dropping dose to start over, in Lantus we call this a bounce. It can take as long as 72 hours for a bounce to clear -- most clear within 48 hours. Noisy's bounces could take 48 hours to show up. So when looking at SS keep that time-frame in mind as you trace back to see where a number could have caused a bounce.
If BG numbers drop fast or go lower, than the cat has seen recently, the liver thinks the body is in danger and releases counter regulator hormones (sugar). In Lantus, we keep showing the cat the lower number to "train" the liver -- we affectionately call this "liver training school". After the kitty has more visits to the lower numbers, the liver chills out and doesn't panic at the sight of a lower number.
I had been working on some illustrations to help but haven't finished them. This one might be good for Napoleon.
Nicole and Napoleon
Very Active Member
Thank you D. Any suggestions on how I should approach this? I cut his dose back to 1 unit BID since yesterday, but it is flatlining.
P.S. - I like your illustration! Makes a lot of sense!
P.S. - I like your illustration! Makes a lot of sense!
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Anonymous
Guest
Nicole he was going DOWN and you raised his dose! he was starting to show some pancreatic fight in his pmps. you don't raise a dose when the # is dropping after mid cycle.
I asked general noisey to check on you and she showed you that you needed to ride out the cycle for a few reds....
call me if you want.
be gone between 6:30 and 9 my time.
sad to see i this rise in dose...handcuffs?
I asked general noisey to check on you and she showed you that you needed to ride out the cycle for a few reds....
call me if you want.
be gone between 6:30 and 9 my time.
sad to see i this rise in dose...handcuffs?
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Anonymous
Guest
Hey Nicole take a look at buff puff's SS to get an idea of how even in the reds a chart would read if the dose was not too much. she has some wicked #'s but the dosing still seems appropriate as she slowly gets to where she wants to go.
Nicole and Napoleon
Very Active Member
Thanks Lori, I will check it out. It will be good to have something to compare our new dosing to. I also sent a PM to Jess and Earl. Again I cannot thank you enough for all of your help and guidance through this!
Jess & Earl
Active Member
Hi Nicole
I got your PM but I prefer to answer publicly whenever possible, if you don't mind.
I honestly rarely give dosing advice because it is not my forte. I have personally managed only two cats, one of whom had such various and severe medical conditions that he was totally unique, and the other I did my best to keep out of DKA while I worked crazy hours and he spent his free time stalking my dog and beating everyone up. In-hospital I only see animals in crisis, so that data isn't helpful in most cases. So, with that caveat, I can only give the following more general advice :
With the second cat, when things were making no sense, numbers-wise, I buckled down and did my best to feed him at set times and give his shots at set times, as close to the time that I reasonably could, and feed him the same flavor/brand of food and the same quantity, and regulate the treat schedule too. I was unable to keep him more restrained in teh house, to reduce his stress, but this would probably have helped too. This doesn't mean you have to do this forever, but limiting as many other factors as possible can only help clarify things. Also, as long as your cat isn't in DKA or just out of it, I would try to stick to the same dose for a few days, gritting your teeth over the bumps in the road. I know a sliding scale may be in your future, but for now --again, to try to un-muddy the waters-- try to hold tight on the same dose, now that you're giving it a shot.
I know that's more practical/general than specific, but hope it helps. You may also want to post to Health to appeal to those with more experience with PZI. There are a lot of "old timers" who used it for years.
Take care
jess
I got your PM but I prefer to answer publicly whenever possible, if you don't mind.
I honestly rarely give dosing advice because it is not my forte. I have personally managed only two cats, one of whom had such various and severe medical conditions that he was totally unique, and the other I did my best to keep out of DKA while I worked crazy hours and he spent his free time stalking my dog and beating everyone up. In-hospital I only see animals in crisis, so that data isn't helpful in most cases. So, with that caveat, I can only give the following more general advice :
With the second cat, when things were making no sense, numbers-wise, I buckled down and did my best to feed him at set times and give his shots at set times, as close to the time that I reasonably could, and feed him the same flavor/brand of food and the same quantity, and regulate the treat schedule too. I was unable to keep him more restrained in teh house, to reduce his stress, but this would probably have helped too. This doesn't mean you have to do this forever, but limiting as many other factors as possible can only help clarify things. Also, as long as your cat isn't in DKA or just out of it, I would try to stick to the same dose for a few days, gritting your teeth over the bumps in the road. I know a sliding scale may be in your future, but for now --again, to try to un-muddy the waters-- try to hold tight on the same dose, now that you're giving it a shot.
I know that's more practical/general than specific, but hope it helps. You may also want to post to Health to appeal to those with more experience with PZI. There are a lot of "old timers" who used it for years.
Take care
jess
Nicole and Napoleon
Very Active Member
Thank you Jess, I completely understand and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I will try to see if I can find some PZI users who can shed some light on this also.
I will try to see if I can find some PZI users who can shed some light on this also.
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