Help with calculating carb content in food

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Rebecca Thomas

Rebecca Thomas

Member Since 2016
Hi

My cat Louie was diagnosed yesterday with diabetes and has an BG of 18.8mmol/l. He also has a grain intolrence (probably chronic pancreatitis) so he's alway been fed on a grain food diet. He's been eating Almo Nature Daily Menu for the last couple of years and I'm trying to establish the carb content of it. I've used the link to the calculator on here and it's coming out at 2.4% which is great if I'm using it correctly. I'm wondering if someone here could just double check my working out in case I'm wrong. If I'm right I obviously don't need to worry about the content of his food.

These are the details for a 400g tin of food

protein 7.5 %
fat 5.5 %
fibre 0.1 %
ash 3.0 %
moisture 81.5 %
calories that can be burned 814.0 kcal/kg

Thanks for the help and being such a great support forum
 
Hi Rebecca,

Dry matter carbs for the food listed are 2.4%. Kilocalories from carbs is 10.3%. Less than 10% kilocalories from carbs is the recommendation for diabetic felines BUT with chronic pancreatitis in the mix I'd recommend caution with any food change. Can Louie eat plain chicken or turkey OK? If yes then perhaps you might be able to add a little extra meat to his food to lower the carb load into the recommended range?

For future ref, here's a link to an online carb calculator.

http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html


Mogs
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Hi Mogs

Louie could eat chicken until it came out of his ears ;) As long as the food is grain free he seems to cope ok with the pancreatitis so there are lower ones out there. Obviously I won't be changing his food yet because of the impact on his insulin dose. Thank you for the calculator and explaining the difference between dry matter carbs and kilocalories from carbs I knew his current food would be too good to be true :) He has been eating Arden Grange dry food as well but I've been tapering it off over the last few weeks anyway as he seemed to need the moisture from wet food more. After reading all the information here I've withdrawn the dry food completely so maybe a small amount of chicken would be good to make up for the lack of dry.

The only other thing I'm concerned about is his constant hunger. I had been spreading out his meals into frequent smaller ones over the course of the day. Today was his first day of insulin and as he has one unit twice a day I've just given him the 2 meals and the insulin 20 minutes afterwards. The problem is he seems overwhelmed by the amount of food in his bowl and then is screaming for food halfway through the day. Am I allowed to give him a small snack or just grin and bear it until time for his next shot? I won't be feeding him any more than he should be just giving him a small potion during the day.

Sorry, it's all a big learning curve, I'm an expert on chronic renal failure and pancreatitis but this is a whole new ball game! :arghh:

Thank you for all your help
Becky
 
Caninsulin, he's got to go back in 3 weeks to have another fructosamine test. It may have to be increased or changed to another type, the vet seems to be thinking it probably will but starting low and take it from there. We think it was kicked off by someone feeding him outside or he was pinching food/bin raiding because he had really bad diarrhea for a while. I wormed him and kept him in to see in there were any signs of worms and the diarrhea cleared up. He started going out again and it all kicked off again. I've kept him in the last 3 weeks and again within 24 hours the diarrhea stopped which is why I didn't take him to the vet as early as maybe I should have. It was when his back legs started to wobble I knew what was really going on.

Becky
 
(((Louie)))

Saoirse was first put on Caninsulin and the vet she was registered with at that time was highly insistent that she only be fed twice a day. Within the first few days Saoirse started having really painful vomiting bouts a few hours after each of her two daily meals. She had always been free-fed prior to Dx but she was extremely polyphagic by the time her diabetes was diagnosed so she'd hoover up all the food allowance for the cycle straight away. I found this completely unacceptable and in spite of the vet telling me to stick to the twice-a-day feeds and not do anything to address the vomiting I split up the food allowance into smaller meals. Solved the vomiting problem straight away (and a move to a different vet very soon after solved a lot of other issues we were having with that particular practice.)

Here's a link to one of my recent posts giving details of how I portioned out Saoirse's food while she was on Caninsulin:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cat-throwing-up-three-days-ina-row.168669/#post-1830428

Word of warning:

If you're looking to try new foods for Louie might I suggest you be very, very cautious about Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly - especially because of his suspected pancreatitis. It's very low in carbs but they changed the formula a few months ago (reduced the protein and increased the fat) and there have been several reports of cats who experienced problems with this food. One batch was particularly bad; it triggered a massive flare in Saoirse and I lost her. My civvie, Lúnasa, also developed GI problems since eating it (still working to resolve them months later).


Mogs
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I'm so sorry about Saoirse that's awful. Because of previous experiences with food and pancreatitis (my previous cat got pancreatic cancer eventually from repeated bouts of pancreatitis over 11 years) I've been wary of all food since having Harry and Louie. Harry will be 17 in 2 weeks, he's a rescue and was born without any eyes as well as several other less serious abnormailities. We assume Harry got too large on the womb and was unable to form correctly. From the moment I had him and Louie 6 months later they have been fed on non-supermarket grain-free food. I order from Zooplus so I'm looking at Feringa Menu Duo which is on the list of low carb foods and looks a good option. I need something both of them can eat because they are inseparable and won't eat without each other and like to 'share'. Harry is huge weighing in at 8kg although in his defence he has the bone structure of a medium sized dog. Harry has no issues apart from the ones he was born with and the annoying habit of peeing up the wall when he doesn't get what he wants - ironic considering his age. He could do with a low carb diet as well as Louie.

If Lúnasa is still having GI issues I can highly recommend Almo Nature Daily Menu. It's not expensive and Louie's toilet habits have been the best since I put him on it a couple of years ago. Until then he'd had bouts of diarrhea and terrible wind. Until this it's been great from the get go until whatever has gone on outside has triggered this (he suddenly started disappearing for hours on end which was most unlike him so we know he was up to something).

Thanks for the advice about feeding times, I was worried about triggering a pancreatic attack on top of everything if I just fed twice a day. I'll just feed a little amount in between shots to keep him from being sick. To be fair my vets very good and is open to ideas so at least we can communicate!

Becky
 
I see your in good hands here with @Critter Mom

I just want to add my 2 cents to ask that you consider a more gentle insulin if you find caninsulin isn't working well or too harsh.
My Dre was so depressed on it :(
 
Thanks for the food recommendations, Becky; I'll keep them in mind for trials.

Following on from Jayla's post above, some insulins disagree with some cats. Some cats do absolutely fine on Caninsulin but others (my own Saoirse included) have a really hard time on it and feel poorly and miserable. Some cats don't get on with other insulins (e.g. some cats do much better on Levemir than Lantus). It is very much worth keeping a daily journal with brief notes of clinical signs (including mood, energy levels, behaviours) alongside the BG data. It can help you to spot patterns that might otherwise be difficult to identify (and it can provide a highly valuable resource to check back on if needed in the future).

I'm sorry to hear that Harry had such a tricky start to life but I'm very glad he found you to love and care for him!

(((Becky and Harry)))

:bighug:


Mogs
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jayla-n-Drevon said:
I see your in good hands here with @Critter Mom

I just want to add my 2 cents to ask that you consider a more gentle insulin if you find caninsulin isn't working well or too harsh.
My Dre was so depressed on it :(
Click to expand...

Thank you Jayla

He's due back at the vets in just under 3 weeks and he'll have another fructosamine test and then we'll take it from there. The vet has already implied that the dose and/or the insulin may have to be changed. I'll keep an eye on Louie and watch for any changes. It's hard to tell because he's been so lethargic over the last couple of weeks although he has been sitting by the back door the last couple of days asking to go outside which he hasn't done for a few weeks but I'm not letting him out so he's a bit depressed about that :(
 
Critter Mom said:
Thanks for the food recommendations, Becky; I'll keep them in mind for trials.

Following on from Jayla's post above, some insulins disagree with some cats. Some cats do absolutely fine on Caninsulin but others (my own Saoirse included) have a really hard time on it and feel poorly and miserable. Some cats don't get on with other insulins (e.g. some cats do much better on Levemir than Lantus). It is very much worth keeping a daily journal with brief notes of clinical signs (including mood, energy levels, behaviours) alongside the BG data. It can help you to spot patterns that might otherwise be difficult to identify (and it can provide a highly valuable resource to check back on if needed in the future).

I'm sorry to hear that Harry had such a tricky start to life but I'm very glad he found you to love and care for him!

(((Becky and Harry)))

:bighug:


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mogs

I'm keeping an eye on him, he does some a little bit brighter today, legs are still very wobbly and he's desperate for food but he was playing with me last night and a bit this morning. At least he's happy. A friend has got a spare glucometer for me to try and I've ordered some ketostix so I'm going to start a testing regime for next week and see if there are any changes. Fingers crossed :nailbiting:
 
Rebecca Thomas said:
Thanks Mogs

I'm keeping an eye on him, he does some a little bit brighter today, legs are still very wobbly and he's desperate for food but he was playing with me last night and a bit this morning. At least he's happy. A friend has got a spare glucometer for me to try and I've ordered some ketostix so I'm going to start a testing regime for next week and see if there are any changes. Fingers crossed :nailbiting:
Click to expand...
I'm so glad to see that you're willing to test your kitty's BG at home. This will give you a 'real time' picture of how he's doing. The fructosamine test is only an indicator of past :)trends as you know.
 
Rebecca Thomas said:
Thank you Jayla

He's due back at the vets in just under 3 weeks and he'll have another fructosamine test and then we'll take it from there. The vet has already implied that the dose and/or the insulin may have to be changed. I'll keep an eye on Louie and watch for any changes. It's hard to tell because he's been so lethargic over the last couple of weeks although he has been sitting by the back door the last couple of days asking to go outside which he hasn't done for a few weeks but I'm not letting him out so he's a bit depressed about that :(
Click to expand...
Dre was always happy and bright until we started the caninsulin the doc said he had to adjust but he wasn't and it was killing me to see him just lay around not interested in anything. We have been on 4 insulins for different reasons but none made him so sad as the caninsulin.....that being said I know many do good on it-
When we switched it was like a light switch-within 24 hours my boy was back:cat:
We are on lev now and I really like it and he is happy:cat:
:bighug:
 
Saoirse's experience on Caninsulin was similar to Dre's. She would perk up at the end of a cycle and she got to the stage where she would do her level best to hide in the most inaccessible place she could find to try to avoid injections. As I said to the vet at the time it was like having two different cats. The switch to Lantus made a world of difference and she was much healthier and happier in herself. To tell the truth if no other treatment option had been available I would have had to let Saoirse go sooner than keep her on the Caninsulin. Her blood glucose was being lowered but she had absolutely no quality of life for about 18-20 hours a day.

I'm glad to hear that Louie seems to be perking up a bit, Becky.


Mogs
.
 
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