Help With BG Test Result Australia Please

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DeNiro

Member Since 2013
Hi, DeNiro had been doing very well and I'd had problems doing home testing...couldn't get him to bleed. But today he seemed lethargic, so I got the test done (used the needle without the pen which did the trick). His reading came up as 3.6. UPDATE: Just spoke to vet...giving him honey...will update shortly
 
Hi,

How long since you gave the shot? And how is your cat now?
What insulin and what dose?

(Will have a quick read through your other posts. Back soon.)

Eliz
 
While I'm waiting for an update from you I just wanted to say 'well done, you' for getting that test result. Excellent stuff!

Bit more info:
Honey/glucose raises the blood glucose fast but also leaves the system fast too. So, it can be necessary to repeat this if the blood glucose drops again.

Food takes longer to raise the blood glucose but has a longer lasting effect in the system, so it would be good to get a small amount of food on board as well. Do you have any higher carb food (ie in gravy?)
 
Thank you so much for your quick replies....I so appreciate it. Poor DeNiro is now covered in honey, as is my doona! He also just ate some treats. He seems to have perked up a bit already...I will test him again in 5-10 minutes. He is still on the 1.5 Lantus 2 times a day, though I've been giving him closer to 1 (vet said to err on side of caution with lower rather than higher). his last dose was 11 hours 40 minutes ago. Vet said not do dose him tonight or in morning. They are open for another hour and a half so I can bring him in if he gets worse within that time frame. Other than that, will keep trying to get him more honey...and thinking about making run to the supermarket to get him a gravy food???? He's still not put on much weight, so I'm not overly optimistic this indicates he's going into remission. I so hope I can get his numbers up to a safe level quick.
 
He does seem perkier...he is up and grooming himself (poor boy is sticky with honey) at the moment. Should I be doing a run for food with gravy (something which has been on his no-no list for quite some time). Update...he just jumped on the sofa beside me then onto the coffee table and still grooming...looking much better than he did before the honey. Have my fingers crossed.
 
Thank you for that info re the honey...I'll keep spoon feeding it to him every 1/2 hour or so. I don't have gravy food but will do another test in a minute, then run up to shops to get some.
 
Hiya,

I don't use the same insulin as you but if DeNiro's last shot was 11 hours and 40 minutes ago then it is highly likely that he has past the peak of the cycle and shouldn't drop any lower now. However, a minority of cats do have their lowest number later in the cycle than is typical (typical peak (lowest number) with many insulins could be between 5-7 hours after the shot). Because you don't have a lot of testing data we don't know exactly when DeNiro has the lowest number of the cycle.

Are you able to get another test?

Although we have limited info here, I do think it's possible - given the uncharacteristic lethargy that you've observed - that DeNiro could actually have dropped lower than the 3.6 during the cycle, and may now actually be on the way up...
 
Yes, he may well have gone lower. I was at work today so didn't get to observe him, though when I left this morning I already was a bit concerned. Now that I've figured out how to test him, I will do it very regularly til I get a good indication of what is going on...I am thinking his insulin may get reduced after this episode. Given how much it's gone up, I assume I won't need to rush him to the vet tonight? I have to go to work tomorrow too. Should I be leaving him at vet during the day or leave him at home if his numbers are still ok? I'm going to do a run to the grocery store for gravy food....back in a few minutes.
 
Hi,

Just nipped over to the Lantus forum and got the following info. It's an example of a typical lantus curve (ie the blood glucose pattern during an insulin cycle).

Example of a typical Lantus curve:

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.
 
DeNiro said:
...Now that I've figured out how to test him, I will do it very regularly til I get a good indication of what is going on...
I am thinking his insulin may get reduced after this episode...
Click to expand...

When my cat has has hypos (he's had 3...so far...) I've tested him until I got 3 test results in a row that were rising (and made sure he was past the peak of the insulin cycle).

Given the liklihood that DeNiro is well past the peak of the cycle he shouldn't need anything else now to bring his blood glucose up. In fact, his blood glucose may well shoot up like a rocket now! (Partly because of the honey, and - assuming he has had a hypo episode - also because his own liver may well have responded by releasing glucose into the system too....)

Re dosage; yes, this should be reduced. And I'd strongly suggest getting some advice from folks on the Lantus forum about this. (I'll post a link there to this thread).
 
Thank you so much for that info....so hard to find that info on my own right now as I'm in a panic (though calming down!). it seems he would have almost certainly been lower during the day. Got him some gravy food....he didn't eat much. Should I be setting the alarm thru the night to keep feeding him honey and/or testing him? I want to get to bed early/soon in case I need to get him to vet before work in the morning.

Just read your recent post....thank you again! So hopefully he's safe for the night now. I'll test him again in a minute, then one more in 1/2 hour then should be safe to go to bed if it's still going up? Should I try to give him more honey or just leave it if it's still rising? Vet said not to dose him in the morning...I'll test as soon as I get back from work, call her for advice and post to the Lantus forum. Plus, I'll continue to test him every opportunity I get...even though I'm at work much of the week, I'm home on Thursday and should be able to get various numbers to give an indication of what is going on. Hopefully he'll be stabilized soon. Any chance this is an indication he's going into remission?
 
I know it's the end of the cycle, but there is the possibility that he could still come down once the effects of the honey wears off.
 
Dyana said:
I know it's the end of the cycle, but there is the possibility that he could still come down once the effects of the honey wears off.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, it is a possibility. There's not enough data to know how DeNiro responds to insulin.

Any other test results yet?

ETA: Oooops, cross-posted with you! 13.2; yep flying up...I think he's very unlikely to drop from that number....but another test wouldn't hurt...
 
Do you have syringes with 1/2 units marks? That would make it easier to give him a dose reduction of 0.25 units.
 
14.8! Hope I'm doing this right? I'm thinking of going to bed shortly. Should I set the alarm to test again in a few hours and/or give him more honey before I go to sleep?
 
Vet said not to dose him tonight or tomorrow morning. The needles only have single units unfortunately, though i can estimate to bring it down .25. I'll obviously need to test him vigilantly while i sort it out. Need to go to work in day tomorrow. Do you think I should wake up in a few hours to test again?
 
Yes another test would be good, if you can, in a couple hours.

I have to log off to go to work.
 
Hi,

I think you should be just fine. You got 3 rising test results (and we're assuming that DeNiro is well past peak of the cycle). But if it were my cat I'd probably set the alarm and test again...just because I'm a worrier..... :roll:

You've done brilliantly today. Well done! (And you're not the first person to have got their 'hometesting proficiency badge' when their cat had a hypo... ;-))

It will be interesting to see what DeNiro's blood glucose levels are once that sugar is out of his system. It's too early to tell if remission is on the cards, but certainly a dose decrease is needed...

Have posted a link to this thread in the Lantus forum.

I hope you manage to get some good sleep.

Do post later if you have any concerns.

Eliz
 
DeNiro just had a good snack on beef mince in gravy. He's looking for hiding spots from me now, but seems ok, just sick of getting pricked! I will set the alarm for a few hours from now to get another test result. I can't thank you enough for the help and support tonight....I truly was in a full blown panic. Glad I finally sorted out how to test him....had given up as I'd never been able to get him to bleed and he seemed like he was doing fine, until today...I was so embarrassed to admit that, thanks for making me feel better about it. Now that I know how easy it is, poor boy is going to get pricked a lot, at least til I have him stable on the right dose. I'll test him again twice in the morning before I leave for work, give more honey if he needs it, then test when I get home, call vet, post to Lantus forum and figure out what dose to give him tomorrow night. I'm home on Thursday which will be good so I can monitor him. Thank you so so much again. Will update at next test result.
 
You did great. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

May I suggest that next time you go shopping, you pick up a few more cans of the gravy food. Be sure to label it High Carb and keep it separate from his regular food. This is all part of building the hypo kit we talk about. This way, if you have a similar situation in the future, you don't have to panic or run out and shop, as you will already be prepared.

Here is a link to what else goes into a hypo kit - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2354

Keep in mind, you don't have to get everything on the list, but I do recommend keeping these items in a small box or container and labeling it hypo kit - And you don't have to buy karo, if you have honey or table syrup or jam, jelly that is fine too. Even mixing sugar and water will work too.

And when you get a number that is 2.8 or below - then you definitely earned a dose reduction. I would say, the 3.6 qualifies too, as Elizabeth said, he may have actually been lower than 3.6.
 
I also think you need to add syringes to your shopping list. If you are using a Lantus pen, you use a syringe, not the needle tips for the pen. The pen cannot dispense insulin in sufficiently small doses for a cat. With Lantus, dose adjustments are make in 0.25u increments and as you noted, the pen will not allow you to do this. I'm not sure where you can get syringes in 1/2 unit increments in Australia. Most of us in the US buy they online.

Syringes: U100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for fine dosing. BD, Monoject, GNP, and ReliOn are some of the brands available with half unit markings. Needle gauge and length is your preference They come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest).

I'd encourage you to take a look at the information in the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Lantus board:
  • Tight Regulation Protocol: This sticky contains the dosing protocol that we use here. There are also links to the more formal version -- the “Tilly” Protocol developed by the counterpart of this group in Germany, which was also published by Kirsten Roomp & Jacqui Rand, DVM in one of the top vet journals.
  • New to the Group: Everything you wanted to know about this forum and more. Info on our slang, FAQs, links to sites on feline nutrition and to food charts containing carb counts, how to do a curve and the components to look for, important aspects of diabetes such as ketones, DKA, and neuropathy, and most important, info on hypoglycemia.
  • Handling Lantus: how to get the maximum use from your insulin and what to not do with it!
  • Lantus depot: This is an important concept for understanding how Lantus works.
  • Lantus & Levemir: Shooting & Handling Low Numbers: What data you need in order to be able to work toward remission or tight regulation as well as information if you have a low pre-shot number or a drop into low numbers during the cycle.
 
6:30am here now and 22 1/2 hours since his last insulin....just tested him and he is 5.5. Is that a safe reading or should I be giving him more honey and gravy food?
He gets his insulin by needle, it was the testing of the ears/getting blood that i was using the lancelet device for (and have scrapped now)
Thanks for the info re the hypo kit!
 
Thank you for your replies. He's having a gravy beef breakfast at the moment. He is hiding in a box and didn't come out for breakfast so I served him in there. I'm hoping the hiding is to escape the ear pricks and not cause he's not feeling well. I'm terrified cause I have to leave for work shortly. I'll test him again as soon as I get home and speak to vet. Should I be holding off on the insulin unless/until his numbers go back up?
 
DeNiro said:
...I'm terrified cause I have to leave for work shortly. I'll test him again as soon as I get home and speak to vet. Should I be holding off on the insulin unless/until his numbers go back up?
Click to expand...

Just a quick reply (off out, back later!)...

Given that DeNiro shouldn't have any insulin in his system at the moment (other than maybe his own ;-) ) you don't need to worry about lower numbers. Lower numbers without insulin are very good news indeed! So you don't need to be feeding higher carb food. Ordinary low carb food is fine.

Yes, definitely hold off on the insulin unless the blood glucose level rises. For folks new to diabetes the general advice here is not to give insulin if the cat's blood glucose is below 11(200). And in DeNiro's case you'd be looking at a reduced dose too.

You're doing great!

Eliz
 
Got home from work about 45 minutes ago and tested DeNiro and he was 4.4! Called vet and they said to hold off on the insulin unless his numbers go back up. They think he may be in remission. Fingers crossed he is! They wanted to see him tomorrow, but his regular vet isn't on til Monday so I suggested my continuing to test him between now and Monday and provided figures stay within normal not bring him in til his regular vet is back on....does this sound like a good plan?
Naomi
 
Hi Naomi. I have been following your condo. I'm not sure what the 4.4 is as I am used to the measurements we use in the US. Let's see, I think it's 4.4 x 18 = 79. Please correct me if I am wrong. If he is at 79 after not getting a shot in the morning, then yes, I would not give him his insulin tonight and keep testing through the weekend. The way we recommend testing to see if the pancreas is producing it's own insulin is to test at feeding time and then test again about 4 hours later to see if he brought himself down with the food.
 
DeNiro said:
... They wanted to see him tomorrow, but his regular vet isn't on til Monday so I suggested my continuing to test him between now and Monday and provided figures stay within normal not bring him in til his regular vet is back on....does this sound like a good plan?
Naomi
Click to expand...
Hi Naomi,

'4.4' (79) with no insulin in his system is excellent!

Yes, definitely sounds like a plan.
Is the visit to the vet just to be a regular check up (does DeNiro have any other health issues going on that need monitoring?).

FDMB folks consider that if a cat stays in normal numbers (approximately 2.7 to 7.2 (49 to 130) (or a smidge higher or lower)) for 2 weeks then they can be considered in remission. And DeNiro is currently very nicely in the middle of the normal range. It's too early to call yet but this is certainly looking very hopeful...

Incidentally, remission doesn't mean 'cure'. 'Remission' means that the diabetes is diet-controlled. Many remissions are permanent, but some remissions are temporary (or recurring). So feeding a low carb wet diet would still be really important to give him the best chance.

It's looking really good for DeNiro so far('fingers crossed' and 'anti-jinx'). The fact that he managed to drop back into normal numbers after that honey and high carb food yesterday is fantastic! His little pancreas must be doing a good job already.
Feeding small meals, little and often, rather than just a couple of large meals a day will help the pancreas to strengthen and produce insulin without overwhelming it with too much to do at any one time.

Again, well done for all that you did for DeNiro yesterday. I really do understand how stressful things like that can be, and you handled things really well in spite of the stress you were under. :smile:

Please do keep us updated...nailbite_smile

Eliz

PS. Most folks here are from the US and measure blood glucose numbers differently. So, to convert 'Rest of the World' numbers into US numbers you can just multiply by 18 (or vice versa....if that makes sense....)
 
Dyana, thank you for that info. I told vet i could test multiple times a day and they said just do it twice, but your advice seems much better. Do I test him just before or after he eats? And then 4 hours after...So 4 times a day?
 
Eliz, thank you for all that great advice and your support! DeNiro and I really appreciate it. Yes, it was just for a regular check up...not sure if that's necessary at the moment or better if I test him for a bit and get a better idea of what's going on first. I'll follow your advice re diet etc. I so hope he's gone into remission....the early morning wake ups have been killing me. I have to do it to cater to the times when i have to leave for work early, which also means I have to get up early on days when i could otherwise sleep in! I know it might only be temporary, but so hope that is what is going on here.
Re the numbers, I noticed there is a conversion tool on the site so in the future I'll post both numbers.
 
DeNiro said:
...I told vet I could test multiple times a day and they said just do it twice, but your advice seems much better. Do I test him just before or after he eats? And then 4 hours after...So 4 times a day?
Click to expand...

Always test pre-shot if you might need to give a shot. If in remission, we call it AMBG and PMBG for the morning and evening blood glucose

Optional: Getting a test +2 hours after a shot gives you an idea of how active the cycle (inter-shot period) may be, particularly if your cat is a erratic in response. Its also when most food spikes tend to kick in, so you can see the response to food.

Around nadir for the insulin - +5 to +7 hours after a Lantus injection, or if no insulin, about 6 hours after breakfast.

Optional: While on insulin, before bed, as it gives you an idea if you need to stay up and monitor for low numbers . Many cats go lower at night.
 
2 1/2 days without insulin now and his reading this morning was 4.4 (metric) 79 (USA). Seems to be licking his lips a bit which has me a bit worried? Wonder if this has to do with me giving him the honey the other night and his numbers going so high for a short time?
 
That is a nice normal number.

Sometimes the lip licking can be a sign of nausea. Is he taking a few bites of his food or only looking at the food and walking away?
 
Deb & Wink said:
That is a nice normal number.

Sometimes the lip licking can be a sign of nausea. Is he taking a few bites of his food or only looking at the food and walking away?
Click to expand...

He has been eating quite well. I've noticed this afternoon his nose is a bit runny. He came to me with a terrible flu that took about 2 months to go away and from time to time he gets the runny nose again and seems he has it now. Even though his numbers are good, I still have a bad feeling for some reason.
 
That's great that he is in normal numbers without insulin :mrgreen:

:YMHUG:

Hope his nose feels better.
 
Even though his numbers are good, I still have a bad feeling for some reason.
Click to expand...
You know a lot about your cat and may be reading some subtle clues.

Is it anything you could explain, that gives you this bad feeling?
 
That time to time runny nose might be feline herpes virus (very common) or another virus.
If it were feline herpes, adding 250 -500 mg /day of the mino acid lysine may help reduce symptoms.

If a trial of lysine doesn't seem to help, discuss with your vet if it is possible to run a respiratory blood panel to see what other organisms might be there. My Spitzer turned out to have a form of Bartonella, not herpes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top