Help Please - new to everything, BG going down what next

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Cosmo

Cosmo

Member Since 2021
Hi there,
Today, for the first time, I have been able to do testing all day. his numbers have gone down and his PMPS is at 65(3.6). It has gone down all day. he has not eaten in the last two hours.

Can someone advise? my gut says feed him and test again in a couple hours (no shot). Am I right?

HELP! (and thanks!)
 
Hi Sara,

Sorry you didn't get a reply sooner.

Have you fed Cosmo since you posted?

Please confirm that you have not given any insulin. Also, can you please advise whether Cosmo has any history of testing positive for ketones or episodes of DKA?


Mogs
.
 
Do you have more than one copy of the spreadsheet? Can you still see the numbers you recorded in it today on your screen? If yes to the latter, try copying the URL to the clipboard for the one with the right info and pasting it into your next post.

Also, please can you answer the questions I asked above.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Do you have more than one copy of the spreadsheet? Can you still see the numbers you recorded in it today on your screen? If yes to the latter, try copying the URL to the clipboard for the one with the right info and pasting it into a post.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
I think I just updated it. can you see it now?
 
I don't think you have enough test data to give the 1U dose.
Not with a 65 mg/dL (3.6 mmol/L) BG reading for PMPS.

Do you have a hypo toolkit all prepped?
Can you stay up late, and test very frequently? Maybe stay up all night if needed?

With no history of ketones or DKA, I'd recommend skipping the dose tonight if your answer to the 2 above questions is no.

p.s. SS was giving me a problem trying to look at it. I can see it now.
 
Deb & Wink said:
I don't think you have enough test data to give the 1U dose.
Not with a 65 for PMPS.

Do you have a hypo toolkit all prepped?
Can you stay up late, and test very frequently? Maybe stay up all night if needed?

With no history of ketones or DKA, I'd recommend skipping the dose tonight if your answer to the 2 above questions is no.

p.s. SS was giving me a problem trying to look at it. I can see it now.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I have some of the kit ready but not entirely (I could stay up all night if needed).
I feel more comfortable skipping the dose altogether.
What is the downside to skipping? Is there one?
 
Deb & Wink said:
I don't think you have enough test data to give the 1U dose.
Not with a 65 for PMPS.
Click to expand...
Would those below-90 readings indicate a dose reduction should be taken, Deb? (I'm working on the assumption that it's the norm for newly diagnosed kitties to initially follow the Prozinc Start Low, Go Slow method; not sure whether this assumption is well-founded.)


Mogs
.
 
Since you already fed Cosmo, I think the best thing you could do for tonight would be to skip the dose of insulin.

Risk of skipping is that Cosmo will be high in the morning.

Quite frankly, I think the 1U dose is too much for your kitty Cosmo going forward.
I would not recommend more than 0.5U going forward. And that low dose is only appropriate if the pre-shot BG numbers are >150 (8.3 mmol/L), maybe even 200 (11.1 mmol/L) or above.

Would you give us some more specific information on what foods you are feeding Cosmo?
Did the food change recently by any chance?
 
Deb & Wink said:
Since you already fed Cosmo, I think the best thing you could do for tonight would be to skip the dose of insulin.

Risk of skipping is that Cosmo will be high in the morning.

Quite frankly, I think the 1U dose is too much for your kitty Cosmo going forward.
I would not recommend more than 0.5U going forward. And that low dose is only appropriate if the pre-shot BG numbers are >150 (8.3 mmol/L), maybe even 200 (11.1 mmol/L) or above.

Would you give us some more specific information on what foods you are feeding Cosmo?
Did the food change recently by any chance?
Click to expand...
Thank you Deb :cat:
 
Deb & Wink said:
Since you already fed Cosmo, I think the best thing you could do for tonight would be to skip the dose of insulin.

Risk of skipping is that Cosmo will be high in the morning.

Quite frankly, I think the 1U dose is too much for your kitty Cosmo going forward.
I would not recommend more than 0.5U going forward. And that low dose is only appropriate if the pre-shot BG numbers are >150 (8.3 mmol/L), maybe even 200 (11.1 mmol/L) or above.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense to me. The vet prescribed 1.5U which Cosmo got for the first few cycles. I dropped it to 1.0U myself as his Bg was dropping so much.

Deb & Wink said:
Would you give us some more specific information on what foods you are feeding Cosmo?
Did the food change recently by any chance?
Click to expand...

Pre diagnosis was eating strictly dry, Senior formula kibble. For the last week he has been free-fed with Purina DM dry as well as getting 2-3 tbsp of Weruva canned food at each shot time. Today, he got a teaspoon of canned food each time he had a blood test (he doesn't like the treats I got - freeze dried duck liver).
I plan to transition to strictly canned food when the Purina DM runs out which should be in a few weeks time.
 
Since Cosmo is still eating the DM dry and being fed only a little bit of the Weruva wet food, to see him drop that low is concerning IF YOU were to still give him his insulin dose.

Does he like the Purina DM dry? Can you tell how much of that food he is eating?

Found a couple of Sara's posts from a few days ago, that indicated this is what you are feeding. Thanks for confirming.

Any kind of pure protein is fine to give Cosmo as a treat. Many people cook up a bit of chicken, break it into small pieces, and feed their cat tiny bits of chicken.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Since Cosmo is still eating the DM dry and being fed only a little bit of the Weruva wet food, to see him drop that low is concerning IF YOU were to still give him his insulin dose.

Does he like the Purina DM dry? Can you tell how much of that food he is eating?
Click to expand...

Cosmo has no trouble with pretty much ANY food. Yes, he likes the DM fine but I suspect he is waiting for the canned stuff sometimes. There is another kitty (Sheila) in the house and they both free feed the dry food. She is NOT a big eater though - Cosmo is probably eating a half a cup a day if not a little more (of the DM)



Deb & Wink said:
Any kind of pure protein is fine to give Cosmo as a treat. Many people cook up a bit of chicken, break it into small pieces, and feed their cat tiny bits of chicken.
Click to expand...

GREAT! is meat/poultry better than fish?

Thank you SO MUCH @Deb & Wink , @Diane Tyler's Mom, @Critter Mom - We are SO grateful to have the support. This forum ROCKS!!
 
Cosmo said:
Cosmo has no trouble with pretty much ANY food. Yes, he likes the DM fine but I suspect he is waiting for the canned stuff sometimes. There is another kitty (Sheila) in the house and they both free feed the dry food. She is NOT a big eater though - Cosmo is probably eating a half a cup a day if not a little more (of the DM)





GREAT! is meat/poultry better than fish?

Thank you SO MUCH @Deb & Wink , @Diane Tyler's Mom, @Critter Mom - We are SO grateful to have the support. This forum ROCKS!!
Click to expand...
You are welcome, I really didn't do much lol just tagged a few members.
I would say chicken is better , from what I have read they don't like you to feed a lot of fish .
 
Cosmo said:
GREAT! is meat/poultry better than fish?
Click to expand...
Whatever your cat likes! Cheese is ok too. Or egg if your cat likes egg.
Some people think that too much fish is not good for cats, because of the contaminants in the ocean. But there are so many chemicals in our environment now, I'm not sure it makes a difference. That is my personal opinion.

I remember seeing in another of your posts, that you had an older kitty that was a dry food addict. You might try some of these tips and tricks. I used every single one of them with Wink, who was the founding member, president and spokescat for DFAA (Dry Food Addicts Anonymous).
https://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf
 
Deb & Wink said:
Whatever your cat likes! Cheese is ok too. Or egg if your cat likes egg.
Some people think that too much fish is not good for cats, because of the contaminants in the ocean. But there are so many chemicals in our environment now, I'm not sure it makes a difference. That is my personal opinion.

I remember seeing in another of your posts, that you had an older kitty that was a dry food addict. You might try some of these tips and tricks. I used every single one of them with Wink, who was the founding member, president and spokescat for DFAA (Dry Food Addicts Anonymous).
https://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf
Click to expand...

Hahahahahaha, WINK! Thank you - will read the transitioning doc and get all the kitties off the dry!
 
Well, this AM, Cosmo's blood sugar tested at 86(4.8). I have fed him and decided not to shoot.
I measured the dry food that had been out for them overnight and he had eaten only a few kibbles! He is waiting for the canned stuff (he clearly loves it!). That's fine by me, I am happy to transition him to the canned stuff right away if that's his preference and it seems his preference is doing wonders for his BG numbers!

I will test frequently today and followup here this eve if I have more questions.

I am, again, so grateful for all you fab people! I did some good studying last night and feel much more confident this morning. We have a vet appt (2 week check in) next weekend. I told them I was using a human meter and they asked me to bring it so we can do a test with theirs and mine at same time. I will also be showing them the spreadsheet so they have all the info.

have a great day!
 
Cosmo said:
Well, this AM, Cosmo's blood sugar tested at 86(4.8). I have fed him and decided not to shoot.
I measured the dry food that had been out for them overnight and he had eaten only a few kibbles! He is waiting for the canned stuff (he clearly loves it!). That's fine by me, I am happy to transition him to the canned stuff right away if that's his preference and it seems his preference is doing wonders for his BG numbers!

I will test frequently today and followup here this eve if I have more questions.

I am, again, so grateful for all you fab people! I did some good studying last night and feel much more confident this morning. We have a vet appt (2 week check in) next weekend. I told them I was using a human meter and they asked me to bring it so we can do a test with theirs and mine at same time. I will also be showing them the spreadsheet so they have all the info.

have a great day!
Click to expand...

Meters doesn't compare, so there's no reason to bring it. Yours will read higher.

Good you skipped!
Don't remove the dry food completely until you have a game plan from Deb. It could be very dangerous and drop him even further, and with his awesome numbers he doesn't need to drop more..
 
@Deb & Wink : I had the other cat (non-diabetic Sheila) in my lap and the BG monitor next to me so thought I would do a test. Her reading was 70 (3.9) which made me feel even better about not shooting Cosmo this AM. Can you address @SashaV's point re: eliminating the dry food?

@Critter Mom : HAHAHAHA! Priddy Greens!

@JanetNJ : RIGHT? I was wondering if that could be the case. Time will tell!

@SashaV : yes, good point. I think she wants to see the results side by side so that she knows what she's looking at when I send her the spreadsheet (if her testing is 2% lower for example, she will have that benchmark). It's no hassle to take it along anyway. ;) And thank you for pointing out the issue with removing the dry food completely!!
 
Cosmo said:
I had the other cat (non-diabetic Sheila) in my lap and the BG monitor next to me so thought I would do a test. Her reading was 70 (3.9)
Click to expand...
You're not the first to check their civvie's BG levels, Sara.

I remember when I was fairly new here I asked for info on what a non-diabetic's BG levels would look like throughout the day so that I might compare and contrast that with Saoirse's numbers in order to get more of a feel for how she was doing. No-one could answer the question so I took matters into my own hands and ran a full curve - minus the insulin - on Lúnasa (my civvie, aka The Noodle). :oops: :rolleyes:


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
You're not the first to check their civvie's BG levels, Sara.

I remember when I was fairly new here I asked for info on what a non-diabetic's BG levels would look like throughout the day so that I might compare and contrast that with Saoirse's numbers in order to get more of a feel for how she was doing. No-one could answer the question so I took matters into my own hands and ran a full curve - minus the insulin - on Lúnasa (my civvie, aka The Noodle). :oops: :rolleyes:


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

cool! I may do that. I will get into a better rhythm with Cosmo first though!
 
There wasn't much to write home about. The Noodle's fasting BG was just a little above the lower bound of the normal reference range. Low carb food bumped numbers up by twenty odd points and the BG returned to baseline again within a few hours.


Mogs
.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Sara nice pre shot this morning, don't forget to put NS in the unit column :bighug::cat:
Click to expand...

I was so pleased with that number! and funny, I DID put NS in there (I use the mmol/L tab) but it didn't show on the other....anyway, thank you for noticing that. I will double check that everything is showing on that tab now!

He has remained at the same BG ALL DAY! wow. Seems like a win somehow! :cat:;)
 
Cosmo said:
I was so pleased with that number! and funny, I DID put NS in there (I use the mmol/L tab) but it didn't show on the other....anyway, thank you for noticing that. I will double check that everything is showing on that tab now!

He has remained at the same BG ALL DAY! wow. Seems like a win somehow! :cat:;)
Click to expand...
Yes his BG is looking great, he sure does look like a sweetheart.
 
We usually recommend that you put 0 (zero) in the units column if you skip. There are built in formulas behind the scenes, that will take the data on the World version of the SS and transfer them to the US side of the SS. Since the NS for units did not show over there, I'm guessing (speculating) the formula is expecting a number in that cell, and will not do the data transfer automatically.

Cosmo said:
I measured the dry food that had been out for them overnight and he had eaten only a few kibbles! He is waiting for the canned stuff (he clearly loves it!). That's fine by me, I am happy to transition him to the canned stuff right away if that's his preference and it seems his preference is doing wonders for his BG numbers!
Click to expand...
Cosmo speaks up, and speaks up LOUDLY for canned food.

Good call on skipping the dose again. His BG levels are simply not high enough to give him any insulin.

Sometimes, the change to a low carb diet can make all the difference. That may be the case with Cosmo. All paws crossed here that Cosmo continues to do well.

Right now, Cosmo's BG levels are in the normal range of a non-diabetic cat. Or the normal range for a cat that is off insulin or being tightly controlled with insulin. That is good news!

The "game plan" from my perspective is to not give Cosmo any insulin, unless his BG levels shoot up dramatically. Since Prozinc is an in-and-out insulin, rarely lasting beyond the 12 hour cycle, there is no "depot" to take into account like there would be with one of the L (lantus or levemir) insulins. So there is no leftover insulin that would be affecting Cosmo's BG levels at this point, that could cause his BG levels to continue to drop as the "depot" releases insulin. Again, Prozinc is an insulin that rarely lasts beyond 12-14 hours. No insulin, no fear of hypo with Prozinc.

So there are no worries at this point with you doing the switch to all wet food ASAP. Except for the possibility of some digestive upset. So my opinion is that the food switch to all wet food done quickly is fine. But if there is any diarrhea or vomiting, then let us know. I see no problems with you eliminating the dry food for Cosmo.
 
Deb & Wink said:
We usually recommend that you put 0 (zero) in the units column if you skip. There are built in formulas behind the scenes, that will take the data on the World version of the SS and transfer them to the US side of the SS. Since the NS for units did not show over there, I'm guessing (speculating) the formula is expecting a number in that cell, and will not do the data transfer automatically.


Cosmo speaks up, and speaks up LOUDLY for canned food.

Good call on skipping the dose again. His BG levels are simply not high enough to give him any insulin.

Sometimes, the change to a low carb diet can make all the difference. That may be the case with Cosmo. All paws crossed here that Cosmo continues to do well.

Right now, Cosmo's BG levels are in the normal range of a non-diabetic cat. Or the normal range for a cat that is off insulin or being tightly controlled with insulin. That is good news!

The "game plan" from my perspective is to not give Cosmo any insulin, unless his BG levels shoot up dramatically. Since Prozinc is an in-and-out insulin, rarely lasting beyond the 12 hour cycle, there is no "depot" to take into account like there would be with one of the L (lantus or levemir) insulins. So there is no leftover insulin that would be affecting Cosmo's BG levels at this point, that could cause his BG levels to continue to drop as the "depot" releases insulin. Again, Prozinc is an insulin that rarely lasts beyond 12-14 hours. No insulin, no fear of hypo with Prozinc.

So there are no worries at this point with you doing the switch to all wet food ASAP. Except for the possibility of some digestive upset. So my opinion is that the food switch to all wet food done quickly is fine. But if there is any diarrhea or vomiting, then let us know. I see no problems with you eliminating the dry food for Cosmo.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU @Deb & Wink !
I just did his PMPS and he is at 92 (5.1). I will NOT give him any insulin and just keep going!

I switched those NS to 0 - thank makes perfect sense as to why it wasn't showing up.

And I will switch him to the canned food as of tomorrow morning.

Again, I can't thank you ALL enough for the support and encouragement and help and laughs.

Sara
 
Deb & Wink said:
We usually recommend that you put 0 (zero) in the units column if you skip. There are built in formulas behind the scenes, that will take the data on the World version of the SS and transfer them to the US side of the SS. Since the NS for units did not show over there, I'm guessing (speculating) the formula is expecting a number in that cell, and will not do the data transfer automatically.


Cosmo speaks up, and speaks up LOUDLY for canned food.

Good call on skipping the dose again. His BG levels are simply not high enough to give him any insulin.

Sometimes, the change to a low carb diet can make all the difference. That may be the case with Cosmo. All paws crossed here that Cosmo continues to do well.

Right now, Cosmo's BG levels are in the normal range of a non-diabetic cat. Or the normal range for a cat that is off insulin or being tightly controlled with insulin. That is good news!

The "game plan" from my perspective is to not give Cosmo any insulin, unless his BG levels shoot up dramatically. Since Prozinc is an in-and-out insulin, rarely lasting beyond the 12 hour cycle, there is no "depot" to take into account like there would be with one of the L (lantus or levemir) insulins. So there is no leftover insulin that would be affecting Cosmo's BG levels at this point, that could cause his BG levels to continue to drop as the "depot" releases insulin. Again, Prozinc is an insulin that rarely lasts beyond 12-14 hours. No insulin, no fear of hypo with Prozinc.

So there are no worries at this point with you doing the switch to all wet food ASAP. Except for the possibility of some digestive upset. So my opinion is that the food switch to all wet food done quickly is fine. But if there is any diarrhea or vomiting, then let us know. I see no problems with you eliminating the dry food for Cosmo.
Click to expand...
Thanks Deb for letting me know to put 0 if you are not giving insulin :cat:
 
A BG of 92 still isn't high enough for Cosmo to have a dose of insulin.

You may want to do urine (or blood) ketone testing, to make sure he isn't developing ketones. They can develop from a combination of factors, including not enough food, not enough insulin, and/or an infection/inflammation. Think bad teeth or a UTI.

It's not likely that Cosmo will develop ketones, but it's possible, especially if he isn't eating enough when you switch him completely to the canned food.

Let us know how Cosmo is getting on.

I only get notifications to look in on a thread if someone replies to a thread where I have previously responded or someone tags me. Can't usually get back to someone until later in the evening here, east coast US time.
 
Deb & Wink said:
A BG of 92 still isn't high enough for Cosmo to have a dose of insulin.

You may want to do urine (or blood) ketone testing, to make sure he isn't developing ketones. They can develop from a combination of factors, including not enough food, not enough insulin, and/or an infection/inflammation. Think bad teeth or a UTI.

It's not likely that Cosmo will develop ketones, but it's possible, especially if he isn't eating enough when you switch him completely to the canned food.

Let us know how Cosmo is getting on.

I only get notifications to look in on a thread if someone replies to a thread where I have previously responded or someone tags me. Can't usually get back to someone until later in the evening here, east coast US time.
Click to expand...

Thanks Deb,
I will keep you posted and look into the Keytone testing.
I am east coast US time too!
 
Cosmo is still doing very, very well without insulin.
Keep those BG numbers DOWN Cosmo.
Good job!

p.s. Yes, I saw from your profile that you are a bit further north than I am. The key is that some of us go to sleep fairly early, where other people are real night owls and stay up late.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Cosmo is still doing very, very well without insulin.
Keep those BG numbers DOWN Cosmo.
Good job!

p.s. Yes, I saw from your profile that you are a bit further north than I am. The key is that some of us go to sleep fairly early, where other people are real night owls and stay up late.
Click to expand...

Yes! I am so thrilled that his numbers are staying consistently down. I will keep testing randomly during the day when I am here to do so and for sure at 12 hour intervals.
He has his two week check-in with vet on the 13th and I look forward to producing the spreadsheet with such good numbers!

Yes!! some of us are early to bed, and others, not so mucho_O;)
 
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