help, please, and vet recommendations - Surrey BC

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Myriam and Mookie

Myriam and Mookie

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Hello there,

I am a new member. My cat, Mookie, is 11 1/2 years old and was diagnosed with diabetes in January. Our vet is very good with Mookie, who is rather difficult when he's not at home, but I'm not feeling confident about his treatment of Mookie's diabetes.

After doing a lot of reading I'm pretty convinced that Mookie's diabetes was diet-induced. After a urinary blockage last year in January our vet convinced me to put Mookie on c/d, although I was worried about the carb content. At our last visit the vet insisted Mookie needs to stay on the c/d even though his BG was spiralling up. So I've decided to strike out on my own, but I still need professional guidance. I have a biology degree and understand the concepts well, but don't want to be making all of these decisions on my own.

Anyways, I am doing home glucose testing and have done a gradual diet change so that Mookie is now on raw food (which he loves). Now I need help figuring out how to get his insulin right. A couple of days ago I stopped the evening injection because the BG is down around 126 mg/dl. By 7 am it's up around 360 mg/dl. Mookie's on Caninsulin, so now I'm worried it's just not lasting long enough in his system to get through the night.

I'd be happy for any advice, but am also looking for recommendation's for a vet in our area who is knowledgeable about the diet-diabetes connection.

Thank you,

Myriam
 
Hi Myriam, and welcome :)

I am in Alberta but I think we have Vic and Sundance in your area and I will try to send her a message

Is the CD dry? No cat should ever be on a dry food if they have blockages :( For more on diet and urinary and diabetes, see www.catinfo.org for info from a vet who is pretty passionate about this stuff.

Now, the diabetes itself....caninsulin isn't the greatest insulin and there have been some recalls of the product (but for some reason I can't remember if it was recalled here in Canada). Can you provide some more testing data so we can better understand how Mookie responds to it? For example, if he gets a shot in the morning when he's 360 but is at 126 at the time of his evening shot, that suggests a pretty unusual duration for caninsulin. Do you know when those numbers start to go back up?

Jen
 
Welcome!

It sounds like you are doing a great job for Mookie with the raw diet and testing. As Jen said, Canninsulin is a harder insulin to regulate with because it tends to produce highs and lows. The longer lasting insulins that are in use here include Lantus, Levemir and PZI. You might check out the info on those support groups to see how they are working for others. viewforum.php?f=5 You will notice we do have a Canninsulin (Vetsulin) group that is pretty defunct right now as very few people are using it. Vetsulin was recalled in the US (and I thought Canada) because of quality control issues. It is still used by members in the UK.

Here is a primer for using Canninsulin: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=302

As Jen said, if you could give us some numbers we might be able to help you work with the Canninsulin. If you want to switch insulin, we do have lots of Canadian members (including Jen) who can help with resources.
 
Thank you for the replies - I've tried 3 times to list my BG readings but can't seem to get it to post (once was because of a windstorm-induced power outage) so I'll try again.

The readings I have are:

Feb28 7pm - 7.7 - gave no insulin
Mar1 7am - 23.3 - gave 3 units Caninsulin
Mar1 7pm - 6.9 - no insulin
Mar2 7am - 19.7 - gave 2.5 units

I'm going to try to get some more readings today, but we usually need 3 hands to get blood from Mookie! I really want to see how low he's going because tomorrow I'll be at work.

Myriam
 
Myriam,

Yes, try to get numbers around +4 and +6. That is generally when Canninsulin is lowest. But you do seem to be getting a long duration with the two evenings when it was still in the 100s. So it will be interesting to see if he goes down low around that 5 hour mark and then stays there, or takes 9 hours or so to reach his lowest point.

Ideally, we want a dose that you can shoot at am and pm. Your high am numbers are because he is 24 hours between shots. The insulin has long worn off. After you get us some numbers for today, we can suggest a lower dose and hopefully get you two shootable numbers.

Send me a pm and tell me what the problem is. We may be having a problem with the World template - particularly with Macs. Did you use the one off the Tech Support forum? https://docs.google.com/templates?q=fdm ... iew=public
 
That is getting pretty low, Myriam. We consider 40 hypo territory. Can you try to get another test in 20 minutes or so? Be monitoring his behavior for anything unusual.
 
The honey should bring him up but it may throw off the rest of your cycle.

Next time, try a little low carb first. If no movement up, then a little high carb. Wait to break out the honey when you get down in the 40s. (No worries - just stuff you learn as you get more into this sugar dance. You can't learn it all the first day. :-D
 
I've tried repeatedly and just haven't managed to get a work-able drop of blood. Sigh. Mookie is behaving normally, though. I'll try again in a little while. It was only a drop of honey earlier, so I'm not sure it will have thrown things off too terribly much...

I'm wondering whether we should try 1 unit Caninsulin in the morning (assuming we get a good reading tonight) and then possibly 1 unit BID will work... Does that sound reasonable? I really don't want Mookie going dangerously low when I'm at work tomorrow.
 
Myriam,
I know it is a little out of the way from Surrey but I use Dr. Eric Irie at Vancouver Animal Wellness Hospital at the corner of Broadway & Quebec. He is very up to date on feline diabetes and once he realized I had some knowledge (thanks to this forum and extensive reading), he was quite willing to share decisions about Ramsey's case management with me. Good luck!
 
Have you heated the ear? A tiny smear of vaseline will help the blood bead up. Also, at first, you can double poke - just a second quick poke in the same place.
 
All right - Mookie warmed his ears in the sun and I just kept trying. Here is my latest reading:

3/2 +7 61.2

My husband will be home in a couple of hours so we should be able to get a couple of more readings within the 12-hour period.

I am so appreciative of the help from everyone.
 
A couple more readings will give good information. It looks like your kitty does quite well in Canninsulin. Most cats have short duration and a very steep curve. Mookie seems to drop down fairly fast but then "surfs" for a while. This gives the insulin hours to work and keeps him in nice numbers.

The complicating factor will be your pmps - whether it is high enough to shoot. Should be interesting.
 
I've got Mookie's spreadsheet working now. I'm using an online converter and filling in the SS using mg/dl so it's easier for other people to follow. :smile:
 
Well, I tend to be conservative, especially in the beginning. I think, with the 50 you got today, I would do the .5.

What are you feeding? A wet lo carb diet could make a huge difference in your numbers. Oliver went down 100 points overnight when we switched from dry to wet. Have you seen this site: www.catinfo.org
 
I know that AndreaM (with Schroeder) researched and interviewed several vets in the *edit - North Surrey) area. Her cat quickly went into remission, but perhaps you could send her a PM. I go to a cat only clinic in Cloverdale - a clinic with no secret back room! My cat is always with me through all treatments. Again, PM if you want more info.
 
I went with the .5 for tonight. We'll get BG again in the morning. Mookie is now on raw food and no carbs at all. His brother gets low-carb canned food (he won't go for the raw yet) so even if Mookie gets into that he's not getting carbs.

Thank you and good night!
 
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