HELP please? 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

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JoshandSophie

Member Since 2010
It's nice to see Sophie's numbers lower in the morning than before. I had two friends over this morning to learn to get blood, and shoot. while I'm out of town Monday and Tuesday.

Question: I told them if they test and she's at 200 or lower, not to shoot, since they won't be able to stay around and monitor her. I figure a little hyper is better than a hypo crash with no one around. What do you guys think?

Cheers.


Yesterday's condo:http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33410
 
Re: 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

HOORAY FOR PROGRESS!

i have to ask, Josh...are you a transplant from across the water? (due to the Cheers signoff)

this will bump your post...you might want to change your subject line to add "Question" so it catches some experienced eyes...

celi & binks
 
Re: 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

Heya,

Nope, I'm from New England. Guess I picked up the "cheers" from my UK friends:)

Thanks for the tip on the subject line!
 
Re: Question? 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

Are you having your friends shoot the regular dose?

If so, I'd also suggest that you have them reduce the dose. Here's my rationale. On 12/31, Sophie started out at 293 and may have dropped even lower than the 93 at PM +6. It's one thing if you're home, it's another if there's no one to keep a close eye on Sophie.

When I travel, I have a vet tech who cares for Gabby. I reduce her dose to a level where I won't be a nervous wreck. I'd suggest that you have your friends give Sophie 0.5u.

I'd also suggest you get a used syringe and set up a sample syringe with the correct dose. Use milk or a light colored liquid so the hash lines on the syringe barrel are clearly seen. This way, there is no confusion over what the dose should be. You can even take a photo on your phone and send it to your friends (providing all of you have phones where the photo will be clear). Don't assume because you've gone over this once or twice with friends they will get it right. (Recently, a friend who was shooting overdosed his friend's cat - 10u vs. 1.0u.) Even though I use a vet tech, I still set up a syringe.
 
Re: Question? 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

Sienne has given you excellent suggestions. I agree that you should have your friends shoot a reduced dose, 0.5u sounds good. That way, your friends will be less likely to have to deal with the low preshot question, and you will not have to worry so much. Keep in mind that cats are sensitive to changes in routine, and often react by eating less...which would also cause her numbers to be lower....another reason to reduce dose.

The sample syringe is a great idea as well. I assume that you are aware that pre-filling syringes is not recommended with Lantus?

You will still want to set a no shoot number, in case they do run into lower numbers. If 200 is comfortable for you, that's fine. You are exactly right that it's better that she be hyperglycemic than hypoglycemic.
 
Re: Question? 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

Sienne (and Laurie),

Thanks for the great advice. I'll have my friends shoot .5 tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes when I get back.

BTW, my vet LOVES the BG template I set up based on this site - says it's going to make life so much easier for me and him. For now, he wants to stick with one unit. Oh, and he refuses to take $ for consulting with me by email. Sweet guy, huh?
 
Re: Question? 1-2-11, Sophie, AMPS 301. . progress!

Clone that vet. There are any number of people here who would happily work with your vet vs. theirs!!
 
10 p.m., +12 PMPS is 472. I'm going away for two days tomorrow, and was going to have friends give Sophie half a dose .5 instead of 1. But with such high BG, I wonder if that's OK? Could you please look at her SS below and let me know what you think? I don't think she's had a hypo yet, and I don't want her going into DKA while I'm gone.

Thank you!
 
Hi welcome.
I think I would stick with the advice that Sienne gave you. The number is high because Sophie is bouncing from the lower numbers today.
Most of us lower the dose when we travel.

What part of New England are you from? I am from south of Boston.
 
Glad you posted here. Maybe change the title in your other post so folks dont answer in two places. Ive cut/paste my response and yours. I think Mariam outlined it well. You came up with a great plan with Sienne and Laurie.

carolynandlatte said:
Hi Josh,
Sophie is likely bouncing from those greens today (are you familiar with that term?). It can take up to 72 hrs to clear the system and come back down to lower numbers. SOme cats will take a shorter amount of time. You will learn Sophies pattern, which could change often (she IS a cat! ;-) ), as you keep at this and test.

Im wondering if you could cut/paste your question and put it in your original post for the day? We try to stick with one per day in order to keep the conversation flowing and not fragmented. Hate to miss important information. Maybe retitle this thread, "Delete please".

I hope you have a great time out of town!
Click to expand...

JoshS said:
Thanks Carolyn - will cut and paste and put it in my original post, in my original thread. Sorry for the clutter:) Any advice is *greatly* appreciated.

Yes, I'm familiar with the greens; my concern is at half a dose for two days, she might really spike into hyperglycemia.
Click to expand...
 
I know it's hard when you're going to be away. I would feel comfortable doing the .5u dose while you are not home. Try not to worry! Sophie should be fine.
 
Hi Josh. Don't worry. Carolyn gave you solid information. This is a bounce from the low numbers. Take a look at your SS from 12/31. You'll see the same pattern in the PM cycle -- green at night followed by a red AMPS.

DKA should not happen with 48 hours of high numbers all by itself. Usually DKA will result when there's an infection present, coupled with inappetence, and not enough insulin. If you look at other SSs, you'll see many kitties who are in high numbers for more than 2 days and are ketone free. Honestly, I'd rather see a cat too high for 2 days than too low for an hour. That's why it's safest to reduce the dose when there's no one available to monitor.
 
Thank you, all, you're wonderful! You've made me feel so much better. I set up the sample syringe with milk, as instructed.

Is there ever a point, maybe after Liver Training School, where kitteh will not have these wild bounces? I'd like to see her in blues and greens most of the time.
 
Ah, Josh....you want what everybody wants, blues and greens and nothing else! :lol: It's what we all strive for, especially the greens. Hopefully, that will happen for Sophie in time. Some kitties stop bouncing quicky, some not so quickly and some continue for years. There are some strategies that *may* help reduce the bouncing, but nothing is guaranteed. For now, I suggest that you follow the plan and reduce the dose while you are out of town. Have a good trip and post when you get back.

BTW, have you read the stickies at the top of the forum? Are you testing for ketones?
 
I'm not testing for ketones. Soph's extremely private about her litterbox habits, and it's damned near impossible to catch her, or even to know when she goes down cellar.
 
JoshS said:
Sienne (and Laurie),
BTW, my vet LOVES the BG template I set up based on this site - says it's going to make life so much easier for me and him. For now, he wants to stick with one unit. Oh, and he refuses to take $ for consulting with me by email. Sweet guy, huh?
Click to expand...

If your vet wants to have other clients with diabetic cats use the SS template, please feel free to share the site with him. Also, do you mind sharing (by PM, if you don't want to broadcast on this site) your vet in New England? There are quite a few of us out here and there's a shortage of vets who "approve" and support home testing.

I'm guessing Sophie's high number is due to her being in the green earlier today. She's not used to being there anymore and her liver dumped some glucose into the blood stream to bring the number back up.
 
Hey Josh...welcome to Lantus Land....very nice numbers for Sophie yesterday!!! Have a great trip. BTW, my husband Mike is a full participant in Gracie's care and often posts; he takes care of her when I'm at work and frequently is in charge of the "night shift".
 
Did the vet test for ketones when she was diagnosed? BTW, your vet does sound great! We do like to share info about good vets around here.

You should test regularly for ketones, there are some tricks you can use. I see you have another kitty, I assume that they share a litterbox. One way to do it is to set up a litterbox with clean aquarium gravel in it, and isolate her with the litterbox and water. You can test the urine from the gravel, it won't react so you can get a good test. Or, you can use a regular litterbox, test the litter to make sure it doesn't affect the test by putting some clean litter in water and then testing the water...if the test is negative, then it's ok to test from the litter. Some people use saran wrap over the part of the litterbox that the kitty likes to use, tuck the corners into the litter so that when she pees, it will form a puddle on the wrap...test from there. It's best to use fresh urine...you may get a false negative test if the urine sits around too long.

The best way to avoid DKA is to test regularly for ketones and treat appropriately as soon as a trace shows up.
 
Thanks for the tips, Laurie! I'll give it a go soon. They have two litter boxes, but I'm not always sure which is using which. I could bring one upstairs - I know what Soph's pee looks like most of the time. . it takes a characteristic shape in the box before it dries because of the way she squats (really). As for treatment - from what I've read, that involves trips to the animal ER. Is that so? I'm willing to do that for a really bad episode, but, although I love my kitties, I am not able or willing to spend enormous amounts of money on hospitalization. I wouldn't let them suffer, but I'm not one of those people who says "any amount of money is worth it." Again, I do love them dearly, but I'm being honest.
 
Have a great trip, Josh, and don't worry about Sophie. She'll be fine with all the advice you've had. Btw, a new Dad just joined the board tonight: Beeba's Dad. Beeba was just diagnosed. And then there's Arnie's dad. And Seattle Brian. And others, too. You are not alone!

Ella & Rusty
 
jack's dad...tess has ann & john...johnny has brian... Perry & Sooty...lotsa dads around!!

i really flipped my lid when binks hit high numbers for a few days when we first started here...but i think the wise ones will tell you that hi numbers are much better than dangerously low ones when you can't monitor!

on a different note...you will be glad you found this board.

they have been literally a lifesaver for my guy...lots of knowledge, support, and humor available here.

safe trip!

celi & binks
 
If you catch ketones early and at a low level, they can be treated at home, or with your regular vet. If you don't test, the level could be high by the time you realize there's an issue....then it can be a very expensive (ER) and life threatening problem. So, ketones are really "an ounce of prevention" kind of thing...test regularly, and post right away if the test shows even a trace amount. There are knowledgeable people here who can suggest what you should do depending on the test results, kitty's symptoms, etc. I don't have direct experience with ketones, so I'm not the best one to ask.

It's fine that you are honest about what lengths you are willing to go to. We all have our limits! Hopefully there won't be any ketone problem, and the tests will just be part of the normal routine.
 
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