HELP! Newbie, need help with 7am shot, unable to test

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Christine & Hooska (GA)

Christine & Hooska (GA)

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My precious cat Hooska was just diagnosed with diabetes this earlier this evening and after reading up on this topic all evening, I am so confused. There is so much to do, and it seems all of it needs to be done right away!

We got him the insulin and needles. We got him Fancy Feast cat food. But apparently there is more to buy: the tools necessary to do his glucose test, which apparently should be done every single time before administering insulin, yet we are scheduled to administer his insulin at 7:00 tomorrow morning (12 hours from when he originally received it) and did not even know about at-home monitoring until late tonight, so of course we don't have these tools.

Furthermore, it seems it takes several tries to do the blood glucose testing -- how on earth are we going to get to a point whereby we can do this by tomorrow when he is slated for his insulin?

Also, obviously we didn't know we had a diabetic cat nor anything about diabetes in cats till I got back from the vet appointment and started studying up on it. We fed him some wet cat food, which I'm presuming is lower carb, trying to transition from his dry food, and I'm scared to death if I give him his prescribed insulin injection tomorrow morning, it could do him in!

Here we've always had cats in part because they're very low maintenance: we simply refilled his water and dry cat food daily and could come and go as we pleased and everything seemed just fine for a long long time. Now our lives will be turned up-side-down -- don't get me wrong, Hooska is worth it! For example, even though I'm currently jobless, we just paid $450 for his vet appointment today. I love my Hooska dearly -- I just don't know how I am ever going to manage all this and feel like my life will be sucked into a black hole.

But for the immediate future, I am scared to death to give him his insulin shot tomorrow morning. I feel like I'm flying blind. Can I delay it till I get the proper supplies? Or should I call my vet? I'm scared silly! I'm freaking out here. Can anybody help??

Thanks much!
 
Re: Help! Can anyone advise?

Hi-

First, welcome. I'm new here too...you'll soon be in good hands. I know it's super stressful waiting around for a response when you feel unsure about, well, everything! People pop in and out of here at night, but you should get lots of responses tomorrow. You might want to edit the subject line to be more specific (i.e., attention grabbing). Something like "Newbie, need help with 7am shot, unable to test." Something like that might prompt a quicker response from the veterans here. I can't give you any specific help, other than to say, take deep breaths, it will be ok.

They are going to want to know things like the insulin you are using, what dosage the vet started you with, did the vet tell you what your kitty's BG was prior to giving the first dose, did he/she test for ketones....and so on. You might edit your post to include that info, so that when people do start to read, the information is already there.

It will be a lot of information to take in all at once, but it does get better. I NEVER thought I was going to be able to stick my kitty twice a day...now it doesn't even phase me. Then...I NEVER thought I was going to be able to stick her ears for her BG tests many times a day...now it's all just part of our routine. She's a trooper and I'm learning to manage.

Best of luck to you and your kitty!!

s
 
Re: Help! Can anyone advise?

Hi Hooska's Mom/Dad!

Please try not to panic, and please post how much insulin and what kind you will be using ASAP. If necessary, you can most likely wait to give the insulin until you know for sure what his blood glucose reading is.

If you are starting the wet food, that alone might bring down his numbers enough that you want to make sure you don't give too much insulin.

Usually we all here have started on low doses, usually around 1 unit, sometimes less, sometimes a little more, but mainly that depends on the kind of insulin and how high his numbers are.

You definitely don't want to shoot insulin first thing in the morning especially if you have to go to work and no one will be home to observe how he handles the first shot. Should he drop too low, he could be in trouble and you would not be there to monitor how low his blood sugar drops.

Try to stay calm, and it is just a matter of learning how to test once you get the supplies, and believe me, I thought I could never do it in the beginning, but I had two diabetic boys, and testing and giving the shots became second nature to me after a few weeks. It is really not that hard to learn.

Hope you will be checking in before shooting the insulin and post also the numbers your vet got when he/she tested Hooska. Cats will sometimes be much higher at the vet's office due to stress too.

If you wait another day to shoot insulin until you can get the supplies, Hooska should be okay. My first diabetic cat was diagnosed in January of 2006, and I was adamant at first that I would not treat him, but by March of 2006, I knew I had to give insulin or else put him down. He had terrible hind leg neuropathy, and could barely walk. So, he lived for three more years on insulin, until he died last March 12, of 2009, but his life improved a lot once I started the insulin.

Take care! Try not to panic. All will be okay as you learn and get adjusted to the care he needs.

Hugs,
Jean and Charcoal (GA) p.s. the GA behind cats' names mean they have passed on, and it stands for 'guardian angel'. cat_pet_icon
 
Hi, Hooska's Mom/Dad,

Breathe. Shoulders down off your ears, please. Breathe again.

Unless Hooska is at risk of developing ketones, he can go a day while you gather the equipment you need. Not only the meter and strips, but also a bottle of ketostix (to test urine for ketones) or ketodiastix (to test urine for ketone and glucose).

Many of us started shooting insulin before we knew of or had the courage to hometest. I shot blind for 10 days. But I wasn't trying to transition to wet food at the time (and potentially lowering BG levels), and Max has been 500+ at the vet. Also, I was shooting PZI, a relatively "easy" insulin at 1U once/day (SID).

You are committed to hometest. That is GREAT!

It would help us to advise you if we knew what insulin and what dosage the vet prescribed. And what Hooska's BG level was at the vet. And what specific foods you have change him from and to. We might advise that you could shoot at a reduced dose. We might advise SID shooting until you get your meter, the single best tool you have to manage this disease. We might advise holding off the shot. But, regardless of our advise, it is your own decision whether you shoot this morning.
 
Don't worry about starting this morning! There is no reason why you can't wait till tomorrow or even on the weekend to get started.

I would say you are changing diet now; if eating wet now, you would likely take away all dry foods.

Some info to give us so we can help you get started:
1. Cat name and age.
2. How cat was diagnosed, what was BG number.
3. What signs did you have before going to vet.
4. What insulin were you told to use, and what starting dose and instructions did the vet give you.
5. Are there any other health issues affecting or just the diabetes?

A couple day's delay is not going to make one single bit of difference and you should know that changing the diet is going to make a BIG improvement.
when you start testing, you may find that the numbers are already lower and much better. There are several cats that are diet controlled, and were using insulin for only a short period of time and others that were never on insulin.

So take a few days to get organized and gather some info and get set up, then maybe on the weekend you can start insulin after you have learned to test and the dry food is out of the body - dry food can take a couple days to clear the system.

Welcome to the site. Ask any questions you have, every single one of them, and please reply with the info in the above questions.
 
Welcome to the land of the sugarkitties. There are many helpful people here. You can get a lot of advice here, and most all of it is good.

I gave my cat shots for 2 months before I started home monitoring. So, don't think that just because you aren't monitoring at home you are doing something bad. Home monitoring is best to prevent going too low and adjusting for diet changes, and such. But, it is not required. Your chances of getting your kitty "off the juice", will be better if you monitor at home though.

If you are not doing home glucose monitoring, then you need to be very watchful of your cat. You should certainly give the shot that the vet prescribed for your furry friend. Especially, if your cat spent a day or 2 with the vet getting insulin there. He will have done several tests and "dialed in" a starting dosage.

I would also hold off on changing her diet until you can get the monitor tomorrow. When I changed my cat to low carb food, her numbers dropped around 100-150 points. That could easily drop you into the danger zone.
 
Home testing IS very important!

Ask any human diabetic if they would give themselves insulin without testing their BG first... they would be SHOCKED that you would even suggest it.

So, I ask you, why would you do that to your cat??

Take your time, pick up a BG meter and strips, practice testing, see how the numbers change now that you are feeding wet food because you may not need as much insulin.

Testing IS important, no matter what anyone says.

Many cats go hypo and there are NO SIGNS, so 'watching your cat' just does not do a thing to keep your cat safe. Testing does.

Here is a link to a list that will show you foods that are low carb:
Binky’s Food Lists

Here are some links on hypo:
List of Hypo symptoms
How to treat HYPOS – They can kill! Print this out!
Jojo’s HYPO TOOLKIT

Why take a chance and not test?
Your chances of harming your cat are greater if you do not test, and never mind thinking that testing will better your odds of getting your cat off insulin; testing keeps your cat safe and helps you to know when to adjust insulin or even stop insulin.
 
Hi there,

you've gotten some good feedback and links so far, but we really do need to know what insulin you are using.

if you could please try to answer some of these questions posted to you:

Some info to give us so we can help you get started:
1. Cat name and age.
2. How cat was diagnosed, what was BG number.
3. What signs did you have before going to vet.
4. What insulin were you told to use, and what starting dose and instructions did the vet give you.
5. Are there any other health issues affecting or just the diabetes?
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
Home testing IS very important!

Ask any human diabetic if they would give themselves insulin without testing their BG first... they would be SHOCKED that you would even suggest it.
Click to expand...

Home testing is important, but treating your cat could be more important. We haven't gotten enough information (vet BG numbers, dosage amount, insulin type, etc), to give a blanket statement to not give a shot. If her cat was at a BG of 600+ at the vet, would you tell her not to give a shot?

Ask any human diabetic if they would give themselves their regular insulin shot if their meter broke and they couldn't get one for 24 hours? Would they go a "couple days" without insulin until they could get another? Some might, some might not. It is their decision, and I would not fault them for making their choice.

My cat was critical when she was first diagnosed, spent 4 days with the vet before coming home. If I had not given her, the regular injections for a couple days until I got a meter and strips, then she might not be here right now.

Advocate for home testing, but don't make people feel bad for not doing it. And I certainly wouldn't give shot/no shot advice with such little information.
 
Home testing is very important. If you are giving insulin without testing, you are risking a hypo event, especially if you have changed the diet to low carb wet food.

Unless your cat has ketones, it is better to not shoot insulin and let the cat be high, than to risk a hypo event. Most cats had high BG for weeks before diagnosis, one more day will not matter. High BG for a day will not kill a cat, a hypo event CAN kill a cat quickly.

If ketones are an issue, that would absolutely change the advice to not shoot.

My cat went down to 35 BG with NO SYMPTOMS of hypo. Behavior is NOT a good indicator of BG values. Cats can go from no symptoms to serious hypo very quickly.

Not all cats have been hospitalized and had their insulin dosage adjusted by the vet. My cat was diagnosed by a vet visit and bloodwork, results were given over the phone the next day and I took the cat back in to be shown how to give insulin. The dose was decided by weight and bloodwork results. I would guess that my experience is pretty typical. Starting doses are often just a guesstimate....some good, some not so good.
 
The key with insulin dosing is to "Start Low and Go Slow"

We recommend starting at 1 unit every 12 hours. Yes, it would be great if you learn to home test -- but many people (the ones that just listen to their vet and never do any research) don't test their cats blood sugar.

I gave my cat insulin twice a day for a year before finding FDMB and learning to home test. During that year, we went to the vet's office once a week to have the blood sugar checked.

I was lucky in that my first cat needed a lot of insulin -- shooting 1 unit "blind" was ok.

I now have two diabetic cats that need LESS than 1 unit. One gets 0.5u BID and one gets 0.25u BID. We home test before every shot.

So, yes, there is some risk in shooting blind, but it will probably be OK - especially if you plan to get the equipment and learn.
 
Yes about the black hole. Yes about the life-turned-upside down. Yes, and yes, and yes again about the fears and confusion.

But the good news is that once the first few weeks are done with, and you have a routine established...the black hole disappears, our lives are ours again, and things settle down. It really, truly does.

As for home testing, yes it must be done. But what's great is that once you and your cat get into a routine, it's actually quite easy. My first FD was a very mellow kitty; never had an issue in testing her at all. My second FD was a bit of a squirmer...but...I tested him twice while on the phone last night, basically one-handed, and he never moved from his bed. Same with the shots. No big deal anymore for either of them.

In other words, it's very doable, and it becomes routine. Just like putting the food and water down, this becomes routine, too.

Do yourself a favor. Take one bite of this elephant at a time. Learn about home testing. Then learn about the interactions of food and insulin. Then learn about rebound. And on, and on, until the elephant is reduced to hotdog sized learning chunks.

You will be all right - you really will be. And so will your cat. I promise this, all right?

Best-
Michele
 
Honestly, I don't think there is a right answer here about shooting blind the first time prior to testing. Many of us did and it worked out fine. There are always the exceptions, and I'd hate for you to be that one. So I guess it comes down to the condition of your cat and your gut feeling...

Jen
 
If her cat was in such a dire condition, I highly doubt the vet would have sent her on her way home with a terribly ill cat, saying go ahead and give insulin in the morning.

There is no harm at all in getting a meter and strips, post here online, and someone will be here to help with getting a BG number and making sure that the insulin is given correctly.


More info is needed and until it's received, I am more than comfortable to say do NOT shoot blind.
 
The contradicting information about shooting blind or not may be confusing. No one here knows all of your details so I would say you should follow what your vet says if the vet seemed seasoned in treating diabetics. Call your vet and tell them you would like to hometest and are uncomfortable shooting prior to doing that and is it ok to wait.

Many on this board have had bad relationships with vets and don't trust them to make any decisions, but many vets do have the knowledge to treat FD and having been the one to examine your cat and see all the numbers, may have the best knowledge to make that decision.

If you will be home this weekend to monitor things, that might be an ideal starting time if your kitty isn't too sick to wait. You could pick up the supplies and get used to using them before starting the insulin.
 
Oh my gosh, I LOVE YOU ALL! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

My husband gets up early to go to work and I'm between jobs. He was going to administer the insulin at 7 a.m. while I was still sleeping and then he'd run off to work (since Hooska had his first dose last night at the vet's office at 7 p.m.) Having read the dangers of not testing first, I was adamant he not do it, especially as we switched Hooska to wet food last night and he didn't eat much. My husband read nothing of what I read; he was as in the dark as I was before I started reading! He even said: don't believe what you read on the internet. He didn't get the connection between the cat needing to eat before the shot.

Okay, numbers, details, ouch! Okay, but I will bend and stretch and grow and do this research on my cat and call the doctor and get back to you per the specific questions you asked. Never been a numbers person; now I will become one for the sake of my precious little darling! No room for being complacent! My little beloved's life is at stake!

Back shortly...and again, HUGE THANKS to all you wonderful people!

Christine
 
Your husband is right in that not everyone on the internet is legit or reliable. In fact there are some cranks out there on all topics, including FD. Even here on this group we have differing opinions as you've seen, but we have a wide range of experience and knowledge, we are peer reviewed and there are even some vet techs and a vet who frequent. So even if I post something incorrect, others will be along to correct me (it does happen :-D )

Definitely giving insulin without eating is a dangerous situation...but...not giving insulin and not eating is dangerous too as this can set your cat up for ketones. Has your vet mentioned ketones? Have you read the FDMB faq yet? Newly diagnosed cats are at risk for developing ketones, so food and insulin are VERY important.

Jen
 
Welcome back Christine!

Be sure to let us know how much insulin the vet gave last nite, and what type of insulin.
Also what instructions did you vet give you before you were sent home.
The type of insulin you are giving and the dose are very important as there are differences you need to know.

Testing is easy peasy; you won't have any problems that can't be resolved, or at least lessened.

Yes, eating is important, but it is very important to test BG before feeding because food affects the BG number you get. With insulins as Lantus and Levemir, we usually do not feed for the 2 hours prior to the shot time. If you are going to be giving Hooska shots at 7am and 7pm, then no food from 5am-7am and 5pm-7pm. You would test Hooska, then feed and shoot at the same time.

But first things first - What insulin do you have and what dose did your vet say to give?
 
Phew, wow, a lot to take in! But learning is good, especially if it helps my little guy feel better! :smile:

Okay, here are the answers to the questions asked above:

Hooska will be approximately 16 years old this August

A full blood workup (they called it a "senior panel") showed glucose @ a whopping 419 (I just got off the phone with the vet who said, however, that may have been a false positive because of the cat's stress at the clinic, but that it's still high. Also, they tested his urine and found that high in sugar as well.)

Hooska became more and more listless and sedentary in the past month and especially the past couple of weeks. At first, we thought it's because he's just a low-key ol' dude, but I became alarmed when he no longer seemed interested in the things he used to do like licking my face or playing with his toys; also his meow's were weak. He was still eating and poo-ing regularly, but obsessed with drinking water and pee-ing A LOT!

The doctor prescribed Lantus @ a dose of 2 units twice a day. However, after just now telling the vet we transitioned Hooska to wet food last night -- which he really isn't eating much of -- the vet suggested scaling back to 1 unit till his appetite picks up on the new diet. He said giving him his shot this evening (since we didn't do the morning shot) is fine. PHEW!

Unfortunately, Hooska has also developed liver disease. He is also to be given 1 Denamarin pill once a day. I noted that this crushed into his food makes Hoosk want to eat even less, but one way or another, we are going to get our handsome guy back to feeling good again and living happily!

Your responses are amazing -- there really are caring people in the world; you've restored my faith in humanity! And the call to the vet provided some easing of tension too.

Again, THANK YOU ALL and BLESS YOU!

Christine
 
One little P.S.: The vet said Hooska did not show ketones in his urine, phew!

My little feller is laying here staring at me as I type this! I love him so!!

Thanks again; wow, just knowing ya'll are out there makes me feel like I'm not alone. Will keep you posted.
 
Well thank you for the info :)

A couple of things..

1. good idea cutting the dose to 1 unit;
2. liver values are often elevated in the newly diagnosed cat but often go back to normal after things are stabilized
3. You need to test his urine for ketones using ketostix from the pharmacy even if he was clear at his appt..
4. Please make sure that you read the info over at the lantus forum so you can learn more about how it works

Let us know how the shot goes tonight :)

Jen
 
Hooska said:
The doctor prescribed Lantus @ a dose of 2 units twice a day. However, after just now telling the vet we transitioned Hooska to wet food last night -- which he really isn't eating much of -- the vet suggested scaling back to 1 unit till his appetite picks up on the new diet. He said giving him his shot this evening (since we didn't do the morning shot) is fine. PHEW!

Unfortunately, Hooska has also developed liver disease. He is also to be given 1 Denamarin pill once a day. I noted that this crushed into his food makes Hoosk want to eat even less, but one way or another, we are going to get our handsome guy back to feeling good again and living happily!

Your responses are amazing -- there really are caring people in the world; you've restored my faith in humanity! And the call to the vet provided some easing of tension too.

Again, THANK YOU ALL and BLESS YOU!

Christine
Click to expand...

2U of Lantus insulin is a higher than recommended starting dose. We recommend no more than 1U twice daily as close to the same time each day as possible.

So you were very correct in questioning whether you should be giving insulin without hometesting. You should certainly not be giving that much Lantus without hometesting!

Secondly, I believe the Denamarin should NOT be crushed in with food and should in fact be given an hour prior to food. Yes, it's a large pill, so please get a syringe and fill with water to squirt after giving the pill to help him swallow it. Copied from the Nutramax labs website: "administration: Denamarin Tablets

For optimal absorption, tablets should be given on an empty stomach, at least one hour before feeding, as the presence of food decreases the absorption of S-Adenosylmethionine. For those owners who have difficulty administering tablets to their pets, Denamarin tablet(s) may be disguised in a small bite of food. Studies have shown that, in many cases, tablets or capsules given as a “dry swallow” do not pass into the stomach in cats but may become lodged in the esophagus. It is recommended for pet owners to administer 3-6 cc of water immediately following any tablet administration to speed passage of the tablet into the stomach.1,2 Denamarin for Cats and Small Dogs tablets are ideal for cats because of their small size. If the pet is to receive more than one tablet daily, the total number of tablets may be divided between morning and evening for ease of administration. For example, a daily administration of three tablets could be divided into two tablets in the morning and one tablet in the evening."

I hope this helps. Let us know when you get the glucometer!
 
And when you are at the pharmacy for the ketostix, pick up that glucometer and strips. A good reliable system is Walmart's Reli-on ULTIMA. Meter is ~$9. Strips are ~$39/100.
 
For the pilling, you can get a syringe and then squirt the crushed pill along with water or even better, because maybe this pill is bitter, use some tuna juice or other fish juice. I had to give Shadoe some A/B after her dental and it was bitter, so I drew up the amount of A/B into the syringe, then drew up double that amount of tuna juice from a drained can, then squirted that into the side of Shadoe's mouth.
Another popular method would be to get some soft cheese, like laughing cow cheese, then hide the pill or crushed pill in it. Both mine LOVE the soft cheese and if there were something inside it, they wouldn't even know it. I swear they inhale it!

It's great news that no ketones present, but with high BG numbers it could happen later on, so the keto stix are something everyone pretty much uses to test our kitties' urine fairly often. Best to catch it when there is just a trace and get right on it!

It sure sounds like you have a pretty good vet to adjust the dose based on the food change.
The BG numbers can really change alot between when you test at home and when they are at the vet office. Who likes going to the dr? Not me! Some cats test much higher at the vet, and some even go very low! I have one who doesn't care, but I have another who goes very very low! Oliver went very low at the vet and it's a good thing I took food for him to eat while we were there.

If you can get the meter and strips before tonite's shot around 7pm, come online and people here can help you if needed to get the test done before the shot.

I know it's alot to take in but before you know it, I bet within days, you are going to see Hooska acting a little bit better. It may seem slow but slow forward is better than backwards.

To know the road ahead, ask the man coming back.
 
Gayle and Shadoe said:
For the pilling, you can get a syringe and then squirt the crushed pill along with water or even better, because maybe this pill is bitter, use some tuna juice or other fish juice. I had to give Shadoe some A/B after her dental and it was bitter, so I drew up the amount of A/B into the syringe, then drew up double that amount of tuna juice from a drained can, then squirted that into the side of Shadoe's mouth.
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I am repeating - Denamarin pills should NOT be crushed. It is not an AB (antibiotic) and is coated specifically to dissolve only in an empty stomach.
 
Hi-

Just another thought about giving the pill....which someone will have to chime in on re: carbs, but my girl used to gobble up pill pockets like kitty crack. She loves them! It was the reward we used for the pet-sitter. You can get them pretty much anywhere. Even if the carbs aren't great, it seems like one little pill pocket couldn't do too much damage to her BG. Can someone comment on that?

Good luck!!

s
 
You know what I wish: that there were hands-on classes for serious pet care such as this. I am very happy for this forum group, but I'll admit: I'm no nurse! Neither is my husband. We talked to the vets three times today on the phone and got various questions and situations straightened out.

I was practically hyperventilating as my husband and I approached our precious one, insulin needle in hand. What a RELIEF to get that shot into him -- much more easily than expected -- I felt like a load was taken from my shoulders.

But I'm still freaking. Now I've noticed that ever since his return from the vet: he seems to be incontinent. He pee'ed in his carrying case on the way to the vet. I'm sincerely hoping this is a temporary-only response to the stress of the vet visit; it was a rough one this time! Also, I think he's only slightly incontinent, not actually pee'ing full out anywhere he shouldn't be. His belly seems all wet, and he seems to want to be on it all day, maybe so we won't notice -- but one can't help but notice he's all wet under there. I noticed he was licking his belly a lot and at first thought that's what the wetness was...But then he left a light brownish stain on my bedsheets from whatever is wet down there. Also, on the floor, the wetness leaves a slightly oily residue, but not stinky at all.

Now I've got this to worry about on top of everything else for the past two days! I mentioned it to the vet's office, and they seemed to find it mysterious as well. I may have to bring him right back in again. I'd rather the little feller not have to go through that stress again!

During his full work-up, his kidney tests came out normal as could be. The doctor even showed me the print-out. So why he would suddenly be incontinent is mind-boggling. Does anyone have any insight on this?

You are all so kind, and again I thank you and am blown away by such wonderful people.
 
My kitty did the same thing at the start of treatment. She was going all the time (I was scooping the litter box 4-5 times a day to try to keep up), and she didn't always make it to the litter box. As you get her numbers under control and get her properly hydrated and not drinking as much, then she will hopefully return to a normal urinary behavior.
 
Thank you Brian for your quick reply at this time of night! What you say is sweet relief to my ears. I hope my cat too goes back to normal per this situation as his therapy progresses.

By the way, do you know (or could anyone tell me): how long after we start treatment do we start to see improvements? I think I saw improvement immediately after his first shot...and again after his second shot this evening, at least in his perkiness and he just seemed to have a healthier more energized aura to him. But I'm not sure what to expect with regards to other things, like: How long before his diabetes is under control (I'm sure that's variable, but a ballpark # would suffice)? How long before his liver improves? How long before this leaky bladder problem abates? And until he seems like his ol' self again? Any estimates or averages?

By the way, Brian, that close-up of your cat's face is utterly adorable!
 
Hi Christine,

It would be nice to have the answers to your questions. Unfortunately the answer is that every cat is different. We all had/have stories about our kitties and how they responded to insulin. In my case, Oliver responded quickly to the new wet lo carb diet (going down 100 points overnight - thank goodness we were testing at home) He was also started on 4 units twice a day by our vet and we quickly had to lower that dose, following directions from the "strangers on the internet" who hang out here. We love our vet but she doesn't see many diabetic cats, and she didn't know about hometesting or the start low and slow approach. With Oliver, and the help of people here, he was off insulin in 6 months.

But every cat is different. There are kitties here that respond right away to the diet and the insulin. And there are kitties here who are still on insulin after a few years, but are well regulated. (That is, they hang out with safe bg levels in a consistent way and feel well and act like a normal cat.)

Usually you do see a good response to the insulin in terms of urine output slowing down, better looking coat, kitties starting to clean themselves again, coming back to those old normal behaviors within weeks or sometimes days.

Keep reading and asking questions. We will continue to nag about learning to hometest. It really is the safest way to deal with this disease.
 
Christine & Hooska said:
By the way, do you know (or could anyone tell me): how long after we start treatment do we start to see improvements? I think I saw improvement immediately after his first shot...and again after his second shot this evening, at least in his perkiness and he just seemed to have a healthier more energized aura to him. But I'm not sure what to expect with regards to other things, like: How long before his diabetes is under control (I'm sure that's variable, but a ballpark # would suffice)? How long before his liver improves? How long before this leaky bladder problem abates? And until he seems like his ol' self again? Any estimates or averages?
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What I noticed with Podo is that in the beginning, she would seem better for a couple hours at a time on varying days. Then she would have good whole days and bad whole days. Over time the good days started to out number the bad days. It was a bit of a roller coaster. I'd think she is finally turning the corner after stringing several good days in a row. And then she'd have a bad day and be lethargic again for a few days. Just when it worried me enough that I would plan to take her to the vet the next day, she would bounce back and be good again. This is most likely because I was not home testing at the time, and she was probably having big rebounds. Unfortunately, the peeing issues were some of the last symptoms to disappear.
 
Vicky & Gandalf said:
Gayle and Shadoe said:
For the pilling, you can get a syringe and then squirt the crushed pill along with water or even better, because maybe this pill is bitter, use some tuna juice or other fish juice. I had to give Shadoe some A/B after her dental and it was bitter, so I drew up the amount of A/B into the syringe, then drew up double that amount of tuna juice from a drained can, then squirted that into the side of Shadoe's mouth.
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I am repeating - Denamarin pills should NOT be crushed. It is not an AB (antibiotic) and is coated specifically to dissolve only in an empty stomach.
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vicky is correct. denamarin pills shouldn't be crushed. they will lose their effectiveness when cut or crushed and should be given on an empty stomach at least one hour prior to feeding.

you mentioned liver disease. food is like medicine for liver disease. you'll want to make sure hooska takes in his normal amount of calories PLUS half again that amount every day. you may need to feed him whatever he'll eat. when my cat was diagnosed with liver and kidney disease last march, there were times we had to resort to feeding kibble in addition to low carb wet food to make sure she took in enough calories. we used Evo Cat and Kitten Chow because it has only 8% carbs.

has hooska had an ultrasound? an ultrasound will give the vet a better idea of what is going on.

just an fyi: with lantus, you have a couple hours to get food on board before onset.
 
It's really tough to answer the question that starts with ... "How long till ..."
Every single one of us wants our cat to be better, like as soon as yesterday if possible! But as has been said: ECID. Every Cat Is Different.

Think about a parent asking how long till my child will be able to tie shoe laces or be toilet trained? I think we all know that there may be a rough guessitmate but no real answer for ours.

One thing to keep in mind is that we really don't know how long our cat has been diabetic, and we don't know the real condition of our cat's pancreas or liver and how our cat will react to the different insulins available for use.

All we can do is provide what we know has worked well for others in the past.
Low carb is a must, and wet food as well. Even if there is such a thing as low carb dry food, I think the treatment to make the food dry is harmful.

As for the insulin, just following the protocol for the one in use, Lantus in your case, and reading the stickys about the shed and how it works will help you a great deal.

One note on pilling - I cannot pill either of my cats as being acro, there is a concern for soft tissue growth in the throat, so all their meds are non-pill variety. The liquid A/B I was given by the vet was extremely bitter but went down just fine with the tuna juice as a chaser. I can't comment on what meds can or cannot be crushed.

Getting back to your old sweet Hooska ... as time goes on, changes will be as slow with improvement as they were to the condition. There are several times in the past where we don't register the signs, but once we have the dx, we look back and say yeah, Hooska WAS doing that once in awhile but I thought .... Yes, we all have made excuses for this or that.

But, that's all in the past and you are now moving forward to better health for Hooska. The urination is pretty common but as you go on, you will notice that issue lessen and there will come a day when Hooska does something, that, when you think about it, Hooska has not done for ages!

They can be good signs and bad signs changing.

Before Shadoe's dx, she always used to sleep on my bed, draping her front paws over my leg. Somewhere along the line she stopped doing that. When she started to become better regulated, she started sleeping on the bed again. I was so happy to realize that habit had returned, after so many months.

When Oliver first arrived, I adopted him as a diabetic, he used to come into the bedroom every single morning and claw at the side of the bed because it was time for me to get up, GET UP NOW AND FEED ME AND GIVE ME SHOTS.
There was nothing I could do to get him to stop .... except get up! That was in March, and now that I think about it, he never does that now, because he is getting more regulated.

You will see them; these improvements just come on slowly but when you see them, you will know that you are on the right path.

Just stick with the wet food, home testing, recording, and lots of attention for Hooska. In very short order, you will start to see your old Hooska peeking through the FD clouds.
 
Hi Christina. Welcome to FDMB.

There kinda is "hands on help." I'm in Chicago. I live in the Navy Pier area and would be happy to work something out to teach you how to home test. I'm going to send you a Personal Message (PM) with my phone #. If you look at the FDMB logo, below is a line of text and in the middle is a phrase in parentheses-- (0 personal messages). When you get a PM, the number will change and you just click on the link. It will take you to your mailbox.

Liver disease can be a serious complication. Food is critical to keeping a cat's liver healthy. If Hooska isn't immediately taking to a wet food diet, it's more important to make the transition slowly so she eats than to get only wet food into her. This is a link from a website devoted to feline nutrition written by Lisa Pierson, DVM on transitioning to wet food. She reinforces that this should be done slowly. Dr. Lisa occasionally posts here and is knowledgeable about diabetes and nutrition.

I've recently had to give Gabby pills. She's easy for me to pill but I had a petsitter who was caring for her for a few days and pilling is an issue for anyone but me. You might want to see if you can track down the allergy formula of Pill Pockets. The allergy formula contains no grain or corn syrup so it's fine for a diabetic. Hopefully, the Denamarin isn't so big that it won't fit in the pill pocket.
 
Jill & Alex said:
you mentioned liver disease. food is like medicine for liver disease. you'll want to make sure hooska takes in his normal amount of calories PLUS half again that amount every day. you may need to feed him whatever he'll eat. when my cat was diagnosed with liver and kidney disease last march, there were times we had to resort to feeding kibble in addition to low carb wet food to make sure she took in enough calories. we used Evo Cat and Kitten Chow because it has only 8% carbs.
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I'll second Jill's point here, food food and more food, and whatever kind of food he'll eat right now. Take care of the liver first and work the insulin dose around that. If he LOVES low carb wet and gobbles that down, great! But it sounds like he is not completely sold on the idea of wet yet. If he doesn't like the wet food, then now is not the time to try to make him switch. Get his liver healthy, THEN switch foods. IMHO liver disease trumps diabetes, he might need a bit more insulin if he's eating dry, but that's ok, it's better than having his liver fail.
 
Again, thanks to all you wonderful people.

Wow, heavy issue the liver thing. I am so glad some of you picked up on that and informed me how important it is to get that managed!

I also loved your little stories about slow but sure recovery. Gee, my cat just had a check-up last September, and if he was diabetic at that time, we would have been told. Scary how quickly this disease developed in him. I need my Hooska back and will love that little guy 24/7 till all is well again.

The last few days I have learned so much! This weekend, will go shopping to scoop up all supplies needed to bring our Hooska back around to optimum health again. I have always adored my little feller and showered him with love, but now more than ever: it's all about him now!

God bless you and your little feline darlings, and thank you for caring about me and mine!
 
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