Help needed with dose

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asoolty

asoolty

Member Since 2010
I need help with Nonitta's dosing please


refer to this thread for information as we were planning to have a surgery to remove a swollen nipple for Nonitta, but we couldn't due to the instability of her curve one day before operation http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=82086

now operation is re scheduled to the 7th next week. Shes on Lantus, 4 units, i had to lower today to 3 units.


please advice.
 
Aseel

Dyana sent me an email and asked me to help but I can't open your new Nov SS. You have to give permission to share. Usually in the link there is a "ccc" that needs to be changed to "pub". That's normally the only change you need to make.

If you go to User Profile and then to Edit Signature, open up your signature block and just make that change and see if it gives me permission to look at the SS, ok?

I've got to feed/test my Gracie and I'll be back in a bit to check on it. Thank you so much. I did read through everything but I'd like to get my eyes on her SS to see if you need to hold the 3.75u or what.

Thanks again and welcome to Lantus Land!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Aseel

Dyana sent me an email and asked me to help but I can't open your new Nov SS. You have to give permission to share. Usually in the link there is a "ccc" that needs to be changed to "pub". That's normally the only change you need to make.

If you go to User Profile and then to Edit Signature, open up your signature block and just make that change and see if it gives me permission to look at the SS, ok?

I've got to feed/test my Gracie and I'll be back in a bit to check on it. Thank you so much. I did read through everything but I'd like to get my eyes on her SS to see if you need to hold the 3.75u or what.

Thanks again and welcome to Lantus Land!
Click to expand...


Dyana is making a great effort with me and Noni, I really appreciate that,

sorry about that, hope you can view it now. I set it to public

its 3.0u starting from todays AM shot.

thanks a lot for your time :) i will keep checking if you need any information.
 
Aseel

I found the SS you did on the other condo. You shot 3.5u this morning, correct? I'd hold this dose right now. We don't dose on the preshot number; we primarily dose on the nadir...or the lowest number in the cycle when there is no "bouncing" with some consideration given to the nadir.

Her high number today (344) is due to bouncing off the low number last night PLUS the shot being skipped but you needed the rest. This number is to be expected.

The important things are:
1. try to be as consistent as you can with the dosing. I know it's horribly difficult with syringes measured in 2u and we've found that syringes are extremely inaccurate. That's why we use the calipers and I hope they will help you immensely when you get them. But do the best you can to give a consistent dose

2. understand bouncing.....when the kitty gets a number lower than it is used to or the numbers drop quickly, then counterregulatory hormones are released by the liver to protect the kitty. The liver is not used to the lower numbers or the dive....so it's a survival mechanism. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear out so we can see what the kitty is doing. The 378 yesterday morning was also a bounce which she cleared pretty quick...the same cycle. That's a big difference between her AMPS and her PMBG.

3. because lantus is a depot insulin, one shot builds upon the preceding. When you were shooting 4u, she has built up an overfull depot and the numbers came down to 37. You reduced which is great. But that 4u dose can also affect her numbers for up to six cycles. It might not...it might affect less. But I'm betting the 63 you got last night at PMBG was depot action.

So...take a deep breath and lets hold this dose until we see what she will do when the bounce clears and the 3.5u dose starts working. It might still be too much insulin but we need to give it a little time to see. In the meantime, if you are able to get tests at +3, +6, +9, it will start to give us some data to see what she's doing.

Please ask us whatever questions you have. we are here to help you and Noni.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Aseel

I found the SS you did on the other condo. You shot 3.5u this morning, correct? I'd hold this dose right now. We don't dose on the preshot number; we primarily dose on the nadir...or the lowest number in the cycle when there is no "bouncing" with some consideration given to the nadir.

Her high number today (344) is due to bouncing off the low number last night PLUS the shot being skipped but you needed the rest. This number is to be expected.

The important things are:
1. try to be as consistent as you can with the dosing. I know it's horribly difficult with syringes measured in 2u and we've found that syringes are extremely inaccurate. That's why we use the calipers and I hope they will help you immensely when you get them. But do the best you can to give a consistent dose

2. understand bouncing.....when the kitty gets a number lower than it is used to or the numbers drop quickly, then counterregulatory hormones are released by the liver to protect the kitty. The liver is not used to the lower numbers or the dive....so it's a survival mechanism. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear out so we can see what the kitty is doing. The 378 yesterday morning was also a bounce which she cleared pretty quick...the same cycle. That's a big difference between her AMPS and her PMBG.

3. because lantus is a depot insulin, one shot builds upon the preceding. When you were shooting 4u, she has built up an overfull depot and the numbers came down to 37. You reduced which is great. But that 4u dose can also affect her numbers for up to six cycles. It might not...it might affect less. But I'm betting the 63 you got last night at PMBG was depot action.

So...take a deep breath and lets hold this dose until we see what she will do when the bounce clears and the 3.5u dose starts working. It might still be too much insulin but we need to give it a little time to see. In the meantime, if you are able to get tests at +3, +6, +9, it will start to give us some data to see what she's doing.

Please ask us whatever questions you have. we are here to help you and Noni.
Click to expand...


Thats great,

now its 3.0 u not 3.5.

today I found 1/2 dose syringe at the pharmacy, i got her a box, should i go for 3.5 u with this syringe for the next dose ? or just hold it to 3.0 u as i started giving 3.0 this morning???
 
Let me update what I said. Just hold the dose right now unless she goes below 50. Then we can help you with the dose, ok?

Nadir depends on the cat and it can change. My thought is she is probably clearing the bounce again.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Let me update what I said. Just hold the dose right now unless she goes below 50. Then we can help you with the dose, ok?

Nadir depends on the cat and it can change. My thought is she is probably clearing the bounce again.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry i was just updating the ss, you should be able to view it now.

I will hold the dose to 3.0u. unless she goes below 50. clear. thank you. and i will keep you updated.


Thank you :)
 
No...I still can't see it. Let me ask a question....on the SS you put on your condo yesterday, it shows you shot 3.5u this morning (11/1). Is that SS incorrect?

Unfortunately, I have an appt that I am already late for. Is it possible for you to please run through the directions for the SS again to see if it will publish? If it doesn't, when I get back, I can help you with it through PMs. OK?

Thank you so much!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
No...I still can't see it. Let me ask a question....on the SS you put on your condo yesterday, it shows you shot 3.5u this morning (11/1). Is that SS incorrect?

Unfortunately, I have an appt that I am already late for. Is it possible for you to please run through the directions for the SS again to see if it will publish? If it doesn't, when I get back, I can help you with it through PMs. OK?

Thank you so much!
Click to expand...


ohh sorry yea i just noticed the 3.5 u no its 3.0 i corrected it .

the correct number is 3.0 u as of this morning Nov.1st .

I uploaded another format .. and i will attache the fine here too just in case.

best luck in your appt.

her next shot is due within an hour and 30 min ..
 

Attachments

Hi Aseel. How did the +2 test go? Don't forget to give her a treat every time, even if it's just some minutes of petty and praising, or maybe some nice brush of her lovely fur :)

We are used to seeing spreadsheets in a certain format, and that is how we help you, and it is how you and we can see patterns in her numbers.

I think it would be great if you could just use the old spreadsheet which we all can see. The one that has the data from 2010, and if you could just skip a few lines and then just start filling in the latest dates and numbers, then we would even need the other one that we can't see.

It will take a little bit of time, but it sure will help us to help you ;-) .
 
Dyana said:
Hi Aseel. How did the +2 test go? Don't forget to give her a treat every time, even if it's just some minutes of petty and praising, or maybe some nice brush of her lovely fur :)

We are used to seeing spreadsheets in a certain format, and that is how we help you, and it is how you and we can see patterns in her numbers.

I think it would be great if you could just use the old spreadsheet which we all can see. The one that has the data from 2010, and if you could just skip a few lines and then just start filling in the latest dates and numbers, then we would even need the other one that we can't see.

It will take a little bit of time, but it sure will help us to help you ;-) .
Click to expand...



Hi Dyana, that's what i did . i edited the old format. the format i uploaded is XLS ? is that the correct one ?


btw. i just tested +3 ~ 39.6 is really low ! and i'm worried now !!


just gave her dry food that usually raise her numbers .. i will test again in 30 min
 
39 in USA numbers?
Yes, you want to get her up out of those numbers quickly, but dry food really isn't the answer. Dry food takes longer to bring the numbers up and last a long long time in their system. Next time, I would try some higher carb wet food, or even just 1 teaspoon of the gravy from the higher carb wet food.

Off to look at your ss.
 
Dyana said:
39 in USA numbers?
Yes, you want to get her up out of those numbers quickly, but dry food really isn't the answer. Dry food takes longer to bring the numbers up and last a long long time in their system. Next time, I would try some higher carb wet food, or even just 1 teaspoon of the gravy from the higher carb wet food.

Off to look at your ss.
Click to expand...

Yes its USA ~ 2.2 UK

now i just retested +3.5~ 41.4 US (2.3) UK

is there is anything else need to be done?

working on updating the old ss , i need to redo all the numbers again .. hope if wont take long..
 
Thank you for updating the old spreadsheet. I think that will help.

Do you have any wet cat food that is higher in carbohydrates than her normal food? Like something that has gravy in it?

I would test again in 20 to 25 minutes to make sure she is coming up. We want her up into the 70s and surfing along (staying in those numbers) for as long as possible.

I need to go to sleep soon. I'm sure others will be here to help you. I will stay up as long as I can.
 
11/01 Noni PM +3 39, +3.5 41

Aseel,
Can you please Edit and change the Subject Line in your first post of the condo to be something like
11/01 Noni PM +3 39, +3.5 41 to get more eyes on this condo?

Did you not test her before giving her her insulin tonight? I don't see the number on your spreadsheet. You did test her, right?, and I am just not seeing it.
 
Dyana said:
Thank you for updating the old spreadsheet. I think that will help.

Do you have any wet cat food that is higher in carbohydrates than her normal food? Like something that has gravy in it?

I would test again in 20 to 25 minutes to make sure she is coming up. We want her up into the 70s and surfing along (staying in those numbers) for as long as possible.

I need to go to sleep soon. I'm sure others will be here to help you. I will stay up as long as I can.
Click to expand...


just tested +4 ~50.4 USA 2.8 UK .

I will keep checking ..


thank you for staying up, i think it's raising .. so have a good night if you going to bed. will upload once i'm done its also late here 3.35 AM now
 
11 points in an hour isn't raising very fast. Do you have any higher carb wet food that you can give her?

She has a couple of hours to go before she reaches her nadir (her lowest point in her cycle). Please keep testing, every half hour until she reaches 70, okay, and then every hour until she is well up and going up.

I'm sorry it's so late for you. Maybe you can set alarms, like I did last night, and take naps in between tests.
 
Dyana said:
11 points in an hour isn't raising very fast. Do you have any higher carb wet food that you can give her?

She has a couple of hours to go before she reaches her nadir (her lowest point in her cycle). Please keep testing, every half hour until she reaches 70, okay, and then every hour until she is well up and going up.

I'm sorry it's so late for you. Maybe you can set alarms, like I did last night, and take naps in between tests.
Click to expand...


only have high protein food, and dry food the only thing that is high in carb that I have.

I cant sleep when shes like this .. i will stay up .. what is the peak time for her ??? +6 ??
 
how about adding a couple of drops of syrup or karo to a tsp of wet food? Do you have a new number yet?

We don't know when her peak is.
 
Libby and Lucy said:
how about adding a couple of drops of syrup or karo to a tsp of wet food? Do you have a new number yet?

We don't know when her peak is.
Click to expand...


yes I do have new number +4.5 ~ 46.8 US and i'm testing again in few minutes.


I only have honey ? if i mixed it she wont eat it ..
 
Libby and Lucy said:
has she had anything to eat other than the dry food? Can you get her to eat some of her regular food now?
Click to expand...


yes i did, she just ate half spoon
 
Aseel

I'm going to take over for Libby. She is working with another new member whose kitty is very, very low.

Can you please retest 30 mins after she ate so that should be about +5.5 and then let me know her BG please? Thank you!
 
Recap:
PMPS: 129 shot 3u
+3: 39 fed dry food
+3.5: 41
+4: 50
+4.5: 46
+5: 64 fed LC

Is all of this correct Aseel or did you feed her something else or give her honey?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Recap:
PMPS: 129 shot 3u
+3: 39 fed dry food
+3.5: 41
+4: 50
+4.5: 46
+5: 64 fed LC

Is all of this correct Aseel or did you feed her something else or give her honey?
Click to expand...


all correct .. no honey was given , only some gravy
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Aseel...any update?
Click to expand...



yes , i just added new numbers to the ss . updated the old one. hope all good now and clear for you . thank you

last test +6 ~82.8 (4.6 UK)
 
Recap:
PMPS: 129 shot 3u
+3: 39 fed dry food
+3.5: 41
+4: 50
+4.5: 46
+5: 64 fed LC
+6: 83

Is all of this correct Aseel or did you feed her something else or give her honey?

Spreadsheet is working now, thank you. However, for today's date, you have 01/10/12 instead of 01/11/12. :-D

Here is what we'd like you to do. First, we don't shoot without testing. None of us would give insulin to a child without first testing the BG so please always get a preshot test. In order for us to see what Noni is doing and offer you dosing advice to get her stable, we need to see some data. Good spot check tests are +1, +3, +6, and +9 and then the next cycle, you could do +2, +5/+6, and a test later in the cycle like +10.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Recap:
PMPS: 129 shot 3u
+3: 39 fed dry food
+3.5: 41
+4: 50
+4.5: 46
+5: 64 fed LC
+6: 83

Is all of this correct Aseel or did you feed her something else or give her honey?

Spreadsheet is working now, thank you. However, for today's date, you have 01/10/12 instead of 01/11/12. :-D

Here is what we'd like you to do. First, we don't shoot without testing. None of us would give insulin to a child without first testing the BG so please always get a preshot test. In order for us to see what Noni is doing and offer you dosing advice to get her stable, we need to see some data. Good spot check tests are +1, +3, +6, and +9 and then the next cycle, you could do +2, +5/+6, and a test later in the cycle like +10.
Click to expand...



yes , all correct - no honey was giving. I'm having one more test +8 in 10 min and heading to bed ..its 7:30 in the morning .. i really need to sleep . and will need to wake up again at 11:30 test again and shoot.

heheh i will correct the day .. forgive my sleeping mind :D


o will post in 10 min again
 
Sounds great. It would be good if you can get a +10 or +11 to see where she is and if you will need help. If she is below 150 at +12, please don't feed, post and ask for help.

I will be here for your next test.
 
Last but not least .. +8 ~ 142.2 (7.9 UK)


now i can sleep and be back within few hours ..

Gn .. and many thanks to everyone here ..

Nonitta send love
 
woke up for the AM shot :)


AMPS ~ 379.8 (21.1 UK) - give 3.0 u shot

back to sleep . i will test in +3 setting the alarm
 
Hi Aseel, Jane here.

Good job getting the test before your AM shot - keep getting those pre-shot tests every single time :smile:

I would suggest that you try getting a (+2) - at that point, one can most often already tell where the cycle is heading, ok?

Jane
 
good afternoon from here ..

i've added new numbers to the ss

+3 ~ 311.4 ( 17.3) and +5 ~ 311.4 (17.3 ) + 6 ~ 331.2 (18.4) isn't that wired ?
 
I see some pinks. She just bouncing a little. I think you can hold off on further testing until the +12 PMPS test.

I hope you got to catch up on some of your lost sleep.
 
i 've added new numbers to the ss

+3 ~ 311.4 ( 17.3) and +5 ~ 311.4 (17.3 ) + 6 ~ 331.2 (18.4) isn't that wired ?
Click to expand...

It could just be meter variance. Meters are only accurate to within 20% of the actual number. She is surfing. These pinks are probably partly a bounce and partly from the dry food, those carbs take a long time to get out of the system.

I hope you are getting some good sleep.
 
I think that's a pretty good PMPS and that +2 says that she is breaking from her bounce.
I'm glad you tested. I would test again at +3 if I was you.
 
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