Help need dosin help please

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RochellenTiggs

Member Since 2017
hello I am very new to this and last night I shot one unit at 8:30 at bs of 11.6 and he dropped very very low we had to monitor and give temptations and syrup and I am now unsure what to do he was 16.9 and er shot this am and now he's 9.3 and I am not confident on shooting so please review my spreadsheet and help me figure this out I have had very conflicting information from the vets
 
Hello there!

I took a look at your spreadsheet, it doesn't have the 9.3 on it-- is this the PMPS, or is it somewhere midcycle (and if so, when)? What amount did the ER shoot this morning when he was 16.9?
 
Ah, never mind on the second question, I see that there is an "extra" (I think?) number in for May 30 AM, but the 16.9 was for May 29 AM, and they shot 0.75U.

I have more questions: are you able to monitor tonight, and do you have lots of supplies on hand (karo, high carb food, treats)?
 
Ah, never mind on the second question, I see that there is an "extra" (I think?) number in for May 30 AM, but the 16.9 was for May 29 AM, and they shot 0.75U.

I have more questions: are you able to monitor tonight, and do you have lots of supplies on hand (karo, high carb food, treats)?
I am having trouble with sprees sheet that tonight pre shoot.
 
OK.

Have you fed yet? If not, you could stall for a half hour and re-test to see if he is moving up.
Why would you stall he's low he needs to eat doesn't he ? I didn't shot anything because he dropped dangerously low last night and it was 11.6 and I shot so tonight I am not needing advice
 
I am having trouble with sprees sheet that tonight pre shoot.
I monitored all night last night and was up to 4 am and I am not shooting tonight he is eating but I am not giving insulin why would I monitor ? Especially after going so low last night I updated the spreed sheet and I tested morning and night only today
 
The idea is that, if the PS is too low to shoot and you don't have midcycle data, you can stall a little while and get another reading to see if he's moving up or moving down. If he's moving up, it's probably safe to shoot even if the number is still lower than you usually shoot. You want the second reading to be free of food influence if at all possible.

If you have already decided not to shoot tonight, great, no need to monitor. Have a great night!
 
The idea is that, if the PS is too low to shoot and you don't have midcycle data, you can stall a little while and get another reading to see if he's moving up or moving down. If he's moving up, it's probably safe to shoot even if the number is still lower than you usually shoot. You want the second reading to be free of food influence if at all possible.

If you have already decided not to shoot tonight, great, no need to monitor. Have a great night!
I already feed him because I do it while I test ear I put food out then draw insulin and last night when I shot at 11.6 he crashed and now I am too scared and I can't possibly stay up again all night what can I do now ?
 
The purpose of stalling is to see if the BG number is rising on it's own, just running a little late ;). It's ok to skip shot when you get PS under 200 (Sorry forgot you use mmol/L, so under 11.2) . You still want to grab a before bed test, if able, to see how he's doing on his own without insulin :).
 
The purpose of stalling is to see if the BG number is rising on it's own, just running a little late ;). It's ok to skip shot when you get PS under 200 (Sorry forgot you use mmol/L, so under 11.2) . You still want to grab a before bed test, if able, to see how he's doing on his own without insulin :).
Ok so should I check again and shoot any insulin ? I'm scared he will crash and I don't know if I can stay up all night again ....


Second question he was on a purina overweight management food it was high carbs and he was doing ok on it it's too expensive so I went to fancy feast low carb ones and suddenly with the insulin it seems he's dropping really low so what should I do and what time do I test again he was on 8 am and 8 pm dosing schedule I've only ever done one curve per the vet .... Intro has more information help me please soo confused
 
The purpose of stalling is to see if the BG number is rising on it's own, just running a little late ;). It's ok to skip shot when you get PS under 200 (Sorry forgot you use mmol/L, so under 11.2) . You still want to grab a before bed test, if able, to see how he's doing on his own without insulin :).
Ok so he's eaten and I didn't stall should I still check again and shoot anything today or not ?
 
Not if you're already past 15-30 minutes of normal shot time. He won't crash if he doesn't get insulin, so try to relax tonight :). It's ok to be confused, it's A LOT to take in and learn. He's going lower because you switched him to a lower carb diet :) that's why it's important to be home monitoring when kitty is on insulin and doing a diet change. 4.2 is a very nice number. 2.8 is the "take action" number on human meters. I think I left you the Hypo instructions on your Intro post. If you get a 2.8, you'll want to feed a little higher carb wet food, not necessarily go straight for honey/karo, wait 20 minutes and retest. Read over that when you are a little less stressed so you are prepared. Anxiety can get the best of some of our brains :p. If it happens you can make a 9-1-1 post here on the Main thread asking for assistance :bighug:
 
If he's already eaten, then don't shoot if you're not able to test a few more times. But you should be testing BEFORE you put the food down ;) This way, as said above, you can "stall". But stalling you'll see what his numbers are doing without the influence of food.

Also, when quoting your numbers, be sure to use the "our number multiplied by 18" number ;) Then we're all speaking the same language.

But for tonight, just don't shoot, and start fresh tomorrow. When is the next time you could do a curve? Every 2 hours between your AMPS and your PMPS (not every 4 as suggested by the vet ;) *face palm* LOL)
 
If he's already eaten, then don't shoot if you're not able to test a few more times. But you should be testing BEFORE you put the food down ;) This way, as said above, you can "stall". But stalling you'll see what his numbers are doing without the influence of food.

Also, when quoting your numbers, be sure to use the "our number multiplied by 18" number ;) Then we're all speaking the same language.

But for tonight, just don't shoot, and start fresh tomorrow. When is the next time you could do a curve? Every 2 hours between your AMPS and your PMPS (not every 4 as suggested by the vet ;) *face palm* LOL)
Not if you're already past 15-30 minutes of normal shot time. He won't crash if he doesn't get insulin, so try to relax tonight :). It's ok to be confused, it's A LOT to take in and learn. He's going lower because you switched him to a lower carb diet :) that's why it's important to be home monitoring when kitty is on insulin and doing a diet change. 4.2 is a very nice number. 2.8 is the "take action" number on human meters. I think I left you the Hypo instructions on your Intro post. If you get a 2.8, you'll want to feed a little higher carb wet food, not necessarily go straight for honey/karo, wait 20 minutes and retest. Read over that when you are a little less stressed so you are prepared. Anxiety can get the best of some of our brains :p. If it happens you can make a 9-1-1 post here on the Main thread asking for assistance :bighug:
Thanks for clarifying for me I am new and trying to take in all in and after crashing last night he scared the crap out of me
 
Ok Rochelle, you have to stop telling yourself he crashed last night. Did he have any hypoglycemic symptoms on this form: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
Probably not. 4.2 was not a panic inducing BG reading :bighug:. You are skipping tonight's shot but getting another test before you go to bed, and resuming tomorrow unless he gives you another lower PS like tonight. There are a few kitties lucky enough to be diet controlled diabetics but we can't say that is true for Jelly Belly just yet.
 
Ok Rochelle, you have to stop telling yourself he crashed last night. Did he have any hypoglycemic symptoms on this form: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
Probably not. 4.2 was not a panic inducing BG reading :bighug:. You are skipping tonight's shot but getting another test before you go to bed, and resuming tomorrow unless he gives you another lower PS like tonight. There are a few kitties lucky enough to be diet controlled diabetics but we can't say that is true for Jelly Belly just yet.
He was going lower and lower 4.3 and. 3.2 have temptations and some sugar and gravy and started slowly going up was testing every 30 minutes last night till 4 am and then this am I lowered it because of last night was that wrong ? And that's not a crash I am sorry I am trying to understand it all and reading all files
 
Oh I don't see a 3.2 on your Spreadsheet. I can't verify if lowering it was correct since I do not use Lantus right now. You may want to read the stickies about Lantus and ask that question on your thread over there. It's ok, I know you are anxious :)
 
There's a lot to learn right at the beginning and it can feel impossible. I don't see the 3.2 on your SS. The other dark green numbers are good ones even though they frightened you. I recommend that you go to the Lantus forum and post there for help. It's a large forum with many very experienced people to give advice.
 
The idea is that, if the PS is too low to shoot and you don't have midcycle data, you can stall a little while and get another reading to see if he's moving up or moving down. If he's moving up, it's probably safe to shoot even if the number is still lower than you usually shoot. You want the second reading to be free of food influence if at all possible.

If you have already decided not to shoot tonight, great, no need to monitor. Have a great night!
Ok so what's mid cycle I have been testing sugars at 8 am and 8 pm and giving one unit and then feed and draw insulin so mistake tonight was testing then waiting on food ? Then test again and feed before cancelling the insulin ? I'm sorry I am new to all this and trying to make it all make sense thanks for helping me
 
He was going lower and lower 4.3 and. 3.2 have temptations and some sugar and gravy and started slowly going up was testing every 30 minutes last night till 4 am and then this am I lowered it because of last night was that wrong ? And that's not a crash I am sorry I am trying to understand it all and reading all files

When you look at the spreadsheet, along the very top, you'll see the "blues and greens". So realistically, he was "in the greens" which is actually a GOOD thing! But, I know it scared the crap out of you in regards to how much he'd dropped from the morning (AMPS) test. So as Yong said, in the greens he had not crashed, but he did continue to drop lower and lower, which was understandably scary ;)

My one question, and this will confuse some (but Rochelle and I are in the same city/time zone) was his PMPS test at 8:04? If so, it is almost too late to shoot now anyway. (Not that he couldn't have insulin if he really needed it, but if you're going to shoot, it should be within about 10-15 minutes of him eating)

Start fresh tomorrow, remember to BREATHE! Trust me, we've ALL been there. This is mind blowingly (my new word) overwhelming. So the fact you got your spreadsheet going and published is a great start!!
 
There's a lot to learn right at the beginning and it can feel impossible. I don't see the 3.2 on your SS. The other dark green numbers are good ones even though they frightened you. I recommend that you go to the Lantus forum and post there for help. It's a large forum with many very experienced people to give advice.
We have one posted there now I didn't post that number last night as I fell asleep this was between 1-4:30 am that number and he' went up to 16.9 this am
 
When you look at the spreadsheet, along the very top, you'll see the "blues and greens". So realistically, he was "in the greens" which is actually a GOOD thing! But, I know it scared the crap out of you in regards to how much he'd dropped from the morning (AMPS) test. So as Yong said, in the greens he had not crashed, but he did continue to drop lower and lower, which was understandably scary ;)

My one question, and this will confuse some (but Rochelle and I are in the same city/time zone) was his PMPS test at 8:04? If so, it is almost too late to shoot now anyway. (Not that he couldn't have insulin if he really needed it, but if you're going to shoot, it should be within about 10-15 minutes of him eating)

Start fresh tomorrow, remember to BREATHE! Trust me, we've ALL been there. This is mind blowingly (my new word) overwhelming. So the fact you got your spreadsheet going and published is a great start!!
Ok I know I am learning slowly and trying my best to understand it all and I thought he can have insulin up to an hour after regular dosing as long as he has eaten 15 minutes prior ? Is that not correct that's from vet
 
Ok so what's mid cycle I have been testing sugars at 8 am and 8 pm and giving one unit and then feed and draw insulin so mistake tonight was testing then waiting on food ? Then test again and feed before cancelling the insulin ? I'm sorry I am new to all this and trying to make it all make sense thanks for helping me

Here's some key info in list form:
  • a cycle is the 12 hours between doses so midcycle is 6 hours after a dose and this is *usually* when the insulin action is at its peak so blood glucose will be lowest
  • we recommend testing AM and PM before feeding and giving insulin (no food at least 2 hours before these tests) and at least one other test near mid cycle or before you go to bed
  • the sequence is: test/feed/give insulin.
 
Ok I know I am learning slowly and trying my best to understand it all and I thought he can have insulin up to an hour after regular dosing as long as he has eaten 15 minutes prior ? Is that not correct that's from vet
It's best to give Lantus doses as close to 12 hours apart as possible.
 
Here's some key info in list form:
  • a cycle is the 12 hours between doses so midcycle is 6 hours after a dose and this is *usually* when the insulin action is at its peak so blood glucose will be lowest
  • we recommend testing AM and PM before feeding and giving insulin (no food at least 2 hours before these tests) and at least one other test near mid cycle or before you go to bed
  • the sequence is: test/feed/give insulin.
Ok so he shouldn't have food after 6 am and pm if he is scenduled for insulin at 8 am and 8 pm ? I thought they were never supposed to be without food gosh I' got conflicting information from vet
 
Ok so he shouldn't have food after 6 am and pm if he is scenduled for insulin at 8 am and 8 pm ? I thought they were never supposed to be without food gosh I' got conflicting information from vet
The reason for no food at least 2 hours before those tests is to see what the blood glucose is without the influence of food. Food will raise BG and you want to know what the BG actually is. This is to judge whether the dose you're planning to give is appropriate - ie. not too much insulin for the BG level. That could be dangerous.

Aside from those two 2-hour periods you can let your kitty free feed if that's what he likes to do.
 
The reason for no food at least 2 hours before those tests is to see what the blood glucose is without the influence of food. Food will raise BG and you want to know what the BG actually is. This is to judge whether the dose you're planning to give is appropriate - ie. not too much insulin for the BG level. That could be dangerous.

Aside from those two 2-hour periods you can let your kitty free feed if that's what he likes to do.
I have never taken his food away and I'm not sure if he's been 2 hours ever without food influence because I didn't know
He was being tested at 8 am and then depending on number I would shoot or not I would feed and keep food out all day for him and then at nights test pre shoot and then fees more and then shoot if number high enough
 
I have never taken his food away and I'm not sure if he's been 2 hours ever without food influence because I didn't know
He was being tested at 8 am and then depending on number I would shoot or not I would feed and keep food out all day for him and then at nights test pre shoot and then fees more and then shoot if number high enough
No problem! The fact that you've been testing him twice a day is the most important thing. Now you can try the no food for 2 hours before a test to get a better measurement of BG before giving insulin. Mid cycle tests somewhere in the range of 5 to 7 hours after a dose are good to do because they'll show you how low the BG is going with a certain insulin dose.
 
No problem! The fact that you've been testing him twice a day is the most important thing. Now you can try the no food for 2 hours before a test to get a better measurement of BG before giving insulin. Mid cycle tests somewhere in the range of 5 to 7 hours after a dose are good to do because they'll show you how low the BG is going with a certain insulin dose.
Ok I can and will get better at this I am so sorry it's so much I feel awful and am trying my best to get this right
 
Ok I can and will get better at this I am so sorry it's so much I feel awful and am trying my best to get this right
No need to apologize, Rochelle. We know you are learning :bighug:. You are listening to our advice and acknowledging your interpretation to clarify, that's a great start!
 
Not if you're already past 15-30 minutes of normal shot time. He won't crash if he doesn't get insulin, so try to relax tonight :). It's ok to be confused, it's A LOT to take in and learn. He's going lower because you switched him to a lower carb diet :) that's why it's important to be home monitoring when kitty is on insulin and doing a diet change. 4.2 is a very nice number. 2.8 is the "take action" number on human meters. I think I left you the Hypo instructions on your Intro post. If you get a 2.8, you'll want to feed a little higher carb wet food, not necessarily go straight for honey/karo, wait 20 minutes and retest. Read over that when you are a little less stressed so you are prepared. Anxiety can get the best of some of our brains :p. If it happens you can make a 9-1-1 post here on the Main thread asking for assistance :bighug:
Just a quick point here: JB has a 1u depot. Yes, the dose was reduced this morning but we don't know how much of a depot he has. Therefore, and I am not trying to scare you Rochelle but trying to teach a bit here, just because you skip a shot does not mean he won't come down lower tonight.

I don't like to use the word "crash" because it, obviously means different things to different people. However, I have seen kitties, whose Caregiver skipped a shot, still drop below 50 because of the depot and clearing a bounce. I doubt it will happen tonight but we just need to still be cautious and not assume he won't drop down :)
 
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