HELP! MY GRANDMOTHERS CAT JUST DIAGNOSED WITH DIABETES!

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marianina

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HELLO! I HEARD FOR YOUR SITE FROM A FRIEND AND I WAS TOLD YOU CAN HELP ME WITH DIABETES. HERE IN GREECE VETERINARIANS ARE NOT SO INFORMED ABOUT DIABETES IN CATS. THEY USE CANINSULINE (INSULINE FOR DOGS-YOU KNOW BETTER) AND THEY DO EXPERIMENTS ON MY GRAMMYS CAT ON THE DOSAGE HE HAS TO TAKE. THE CAT IS MALE 13 YEAR OLD, NEVER LEFT MY GRAMMYS HOME,NEVER BEEN IN A GARDEN ONLY ON THE BALKONY AND INSIDE THE APPARTEMENT. MY GRAMMY IN ORDER TO SAVE MONEY STOPPED 4 MONTHS AGO FEEDING HIM THE PROPPER FOOD (ROYAL CANIN FOR CATS OLDER THAN 10YEARS) AND STARTED GIVING HIM FRISKIES FROM THE MARKET. THE CAT LOST WEIGHT VERY QUICKLY AND URINATED AND DRANK WATER ALL THE TIME.SO AFTER A MONTH I WENT TO VISIT AND I WAS SO SCARED WHEN I SAW THE CAT SO THIN I RAN TO THE NEAREST PET CLINIC.THEY DIAGNOSED DIABETES AND VERY LOW KALIUM. THEY HOSPITALISED THE CAT FOR FIVE DAYS , THEY STARTED INSULINE SHOTS AND THEY GAVE HIM KALIUM THOUGH BLOOD.THE GLYKOSE WENT FROM 550 IN THE MORNING TO 250 NOON AND 450 NIGHT.THEY GAVE 0,035 ml CANINSULINE AT 9 IN THE MORNING AND AT 9 AT NIGHT (EVERY 12 HOURS) AFTER 5 DAYS WE TOOK HIM HOME BUT HE WAS NOT EATING ALONE AND WE FORCED FEED HIM.WE ALSO DID 0,035 ml INSULINE ENERY MORNING AND IF THE GLYKOSE WAS ABOVE 300 AT 5 IN THE AFTERNOON WE DID INSULINE AT 9 AT NIGHT TOO. SO SOME DAYS HE TOOK 0,035ML/PER DAY AND SOME 0,07ML/PER DAY BECAUSE WE DID INSULINE TWICE A DAY. AFTER 2 DAYS HE WOKE UP WITH GLYKOSE AROUND 80 IN THE MORNING SO I DID NOT DO INSULINE IN ORDER TO AVOID HYPOGLYKAIMIA. IN THE AFTERNOON IT WAS ALSO 130 AND AT NIGHT 190 .THAT DAY WE DID NOT DO INSULINE AT ALL. BUT THE CAT HAD NO APPETITE, SO I TOOK HIM BACK AT THE HOSPITAL TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED. THEY TOLD ME THE KALIUM HAD FALLEN AGAIN. IT WAS 2,6. SO FROM MONDAY NIGHT HE IS STILL IN THE HOSPITAL.YESTERDAY MORNING HIS GLYKOSE WENT BACK UP AT 550 IN THE MORNING AND THEY STARTED INSULINE AGAIN.YESTERDAY NOON THW GLYKOSE WAS ONLY 40! AND IN THE EVENING WAS 190, THE CAT ATE A LITTLE ON ITS OWN AND HE FELT BETTER BECAUSE IN THE CLINIC HE IS TAKING KALIUM TOO. THEY TOLD ME THEY WILL TRY OTHER DOSAGES OF INSULINE AS WELL. WHEN I TAKE HIM HOME I AM THINKING OF CHANGING TO HUMAN INSULIN AND TRY TO FIND A DOSAGE ON MY OWN , WHAT DO YOU THINK? SORRY I WROTE SO MUCH...
 
Hi, welcome, and sorry your grandmother's cat is so ill.

Here are some links that might help with information on the low potassium (kalium) issue:
http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm

http://www.felinecrf.com/comm0.htm

You might ask the vet for supplements (potassium) - and if needed for your kitty.

I would also ask the vet to address the lack of appetite and ask for suggestions. Many here will give an appetite stimulent if needed to a sick kitty that will not eat.

There are, in fact, human insulins that many of us use. Lantus (glargine) and Levemir are both good choices.
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Lantus
I'm not sure I would suggest working out the dose on your own, but maybe with your vet, and some guidelines, you can find the right dose for your cat.
Read the Tilly's protocol here: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_index.htm

For diet information, read Dr. Lisa's website, http://www.catinfo.org/

You will find that a canned food from the grocery store is better than a dry food diet.

I'm sorry it is a rough time but it does sound like you are doing what you can and looking for alternatives to help your grandmother's kitty get well and under control.

Please keep us posted.

Pam & Layla
 
If you could start treating this kitty at home it may be best. Hometesting with a human glucometer to measure the blood glucose before each shot and to get some BGs (blood glucose numbers) during the day will tell you how the kitty is responding to insulin.

Regarding the low potassium, what symptoms is the kitty showing? With low potassium I would expect to see a very tired cat that can't really lift it's head. If potassium measurements are the same as what Tucker's get measured at then 2.6 is extremely low. Tucker's was about that when first diagnosed with Hypoaklemia, getting Tumil-K pills (potassium) his potassium is now normal, just measured last night at 4.1, but he needs his pills every day.

When you first start Insulin it can lower potassium levels in a kitty. I don't know the medical terms for all of this, but from googling here's some information:

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pa ... _phys.html

Some discussion on this forum about insulin/potassium: http://allnurses.com/nursing-student-as ... 39630.html
 
Welcome I hope you come back and take this advice given. There are many good people here willing to help.
sending prayers for Grammys kitty
jeanne
 
Dear Marianna,

You are a good granddaughter! And your Grandmother's cat is very lucky you're so caring and involved!

Please listen to what our beloved friends have suggested. I'm just here to give you hugs so you believe in yourself. You can do this. Just get your Grandmother's cat to eat pretty much anything he wants to eat right now so he get's his tummy back in the eating habit, okay? One step at a time, Marianna...

Love and extra hugs,
Deb and Nikki -- and Giz, forever whispering in my heart...
 
thank you all very very much for your quick responses. the kitty is doing better in the hospital the potassium has gone back to normal and he is eating on his own . we will discuss potassium pills when i take him back home (probably i will keep him some days before giving him back to grammy in order to find the proper dosage for him, always in discuss with the vet. i asked the vet about giving the cat human insulin and he is negative because they dont sell it to veterinarians and he has no experience to how the cat will respond.so its up to be if i use it and i will not have any help from him.i have a human glucose meter at home and i take measurment before injecting insuline but when he goes back to grammy i will not be able to go every day (but 3 days a week because we live an hour away and so i hope i find a dosage that will make his glykose be stable at least for a while....probably i will take him back in a couple of days and will have more news then .....thank you all again sooooooooooo much! we will be in touch!
 
Here in the U.S., the vet can write a prescription for the human insulin, and we go to a human pharmacy to buy it.

In Canada, no prescription is required for human insulin -- just walk in and buy it.
 
WELL, IHAVE HIM IN HOME NOW , HIS KALIUM (POTASSIUM IS 2,9) AND I GIVE HIM SUPPLEMENTARY A SYRUP AND HOPE TO RISE. IN THE HOSPITAL HE WAS TAKING KALIUM INTRAVENUS AND HE WAS FEELING A WHOLE BETTER BUT AT HOME EVEN THOUGH I GIVE HIM ORALY HE STILL HAS NOT ANY APPETITE FOR FOOD AN I FORCE FEED HOM WITH THE SYRINGE...I FOUND A VETERINARIAN THAT USES LANTUS BUT HE CANT SEE ME BEFORE TUESDAY SO I WILL HAVE TO WAIT TILL THEN. YESTERDAY THE GLYKOSE IN HIS BLOOD WAS 340 IN THE MORNING SO WE DID INSULIN 0.028 ml (thats what they did in the hospital too) and at noon and afternoon was normal (around 100) and at night went up to 350 again so i did 0,028 ml again. today at 7 before i go to work was normal (94) and i didnt inject him...but he is feeling down...maybe is the hypokalemia i dont know... now that i will go back home from work i will see how he is doing....thank u again all so much...
 
I'm glad that his blood glucose os better (lower). You were right not to give any insulin with level of 94. If you got him to eat the some about in the evening as you did last night, you probably should not give the same 0,028 ml of insulin. Caninsulin is a U40 insulin so it contains 40 unit of insulin per ml. Thus your are giving a little over one unit of insulin,0.0112 specifically.
 
Marianne you are doing well under the circumstances. With the numbers going so high and then down low again I am wondering if this might be a rebound (somogyi effect). This is when the blood glucose lowers too rapidly and the body overcompensates by releasing too much glucose. I don't know too much about the european insulin concentrations so maybe another reader could give some advice on lower doses of Cannsulin until you can get to the other vet on Tues. You should also ask the vet to check for ketones in the cat's blood or urine.

Your english is very good but sometimes it is hard to communicate things like this in a second language. Would it help if a board member could private message her in Greek?
 
HI THERE! I'M BACK AND I THINK " SPARKLE", MY GRAMMYS CAT, IS DOING MUCH BETTER! I DONT KNOW IF THE POTASSIUM HAS RISEN BUT HE IS MUCH MORE COMMUNICATIVE AND HE EATS ON ITS OWN! I CHANGED THE CANINSULIN DOSAGE TO 0,02 ml BECAUSE HE HAD HYPOGLYKAIMIA TWICE WITH THE DOSAGE OF 0,028 ml AND HE RESPONDED VERY WELL! TWO DAYS NOW WITH 2 INJECTIONS PER DAY HIS BG IS ABOUT 120-140 AT ALL TIMES (I MEASURE 4 TIMES PER DAY). I'M THINKING ABOUT SWITCHING TO LANTUS BUT I AM AFRAID NOW THAT HE IS DOING SO WELL THAT I MABY RUIN SOMETHING FOR HIM AND THE BG WILL START RISE UP AGAIN...WHAT DO U THINK?????
 
I am not sure what the others would say but I think you may have even better results if you switch to Lantus.
Many people have switched from caninsulin - I was using caninsulin for one of my cats and switched to Lantus. I got much better results and my cat acted better when giving Lantus.

I am glad to hear Sparkle is doing so much better, and no, you won't cause problems if you switch to another insulin.
 
Wow, these are great numbers so soon!

I wouldn't rush any insulin change. Make sure the potassium levels are acceptable. Sparkle is on wet food, right? Get the diet stable, the electrolytes (like Potassium) stable, and the current caninsulin doses stable before thinking about a switch.

Lantus (Glargine) is certainly associated with an impressive diabetes remission rate (64%) if dosing is started within a few weeks of diagnosis.

Please discuss with your vet. And us, too! We are all very opinionated here!

Best,
Rebecca
 
Hello again.thanks for the tips everybody.I thought he was going stable at 120-140 blood sugar with the dosage of 0.02 ml caninsuline but 2 days now he has 84 blood sugar so I lowered the dosage at 0.015 ml.the doctors are not helping very much.the potassium is back to normal (4.5) and we found no ketones at his urine. That's good,I think. But though everything goes well yesterday he refused to eat on his own the wet food and we forced fed him again to avoid hypoglykemia. Today the same. I did an experiment and I gave him dry food (the food I give to my other cat-royal canine for sterilized animals) and he ate it! What shall I do now? Begin a dry food like md of hills or try to find another can of wet food that he likes??????
 
Wet food generally is better for cats. You should be able to tell if the dry food makes his blood sugar go higher. If not, maybe give him a little. It would definitely be better if you can find a wet food that he likes. There is a powder called Fortiflora that can be sprinkled on the wet food and often encourages the cat to eat. I don't know if it is available in Europe - in Canada we buy it from the vet. This might help him to eat some wet food.

You are doing a great job.
 
Glad you finally got help - I've been watching the other topics and was starting to get worried. I was hoping all long Larry would help with the conversion as I know he's good at that. :thumbup

BTW I think the "carbon" you were speaking of in your first topic would be "carbohydrates." I'm not sure what foods would be available to you in Greece, but if you have Hills prescription foods then perhaps you have Purina prescription foods available too? The wet or canned Purina DM formula would be a better match [and lower in carbohydrates - "carbs"] than the Hills MD.

As for other foods, there is Janet & Binky's list and some more in Wayne & Hobos list. Ultimately you are looking for a wet or canned food below 10% carbohydrates or "carbs" as %Kcal. What is listed on the can is usually not much use - I'm not sure the regulations for that in Greece.

Other options for insulin include PZI or Levimir. All insulins have their advantages and disadvantages and should be weighed with the priorities of your kitty and own life in mind.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Why are you giving insulin when he is under 120?
Click to expand...
yes i am giving insuline when he is under 120 for example 80 or 60 , doctors orders, but doctor says that contour (bayer) measures 30 points above normal blood sugar(i have checked this out too cause when hiw bs was 39 or 30 at night he was feeling fine and he was eating on his own) so when it shows 80 he is actually 110 and always feed him well after the shot so that he doesnt go hypo.
 
yes, i was talking about carbonhydrates, sorry i wasnt clear about this. i havent learnt the terminology well enough yet. he refuses to eat both purina and hills perscription so i went to the market and bought him some purina gourmet perle canned food that he actually eats on his own because otherwise i have to force feed him and i dont want that. i checked dry food of purina and hills about carbonhydrates content and they had 26% whereas wet food has 8,6% .dramatically different!
 
Your vet sounds nuts, and you could end up with a dead cat. Sorry, its monday and I'm sick and at work so I'm blunt. But giving a dose at 80 is insane. Please consider no insulin unless 150. Consider it an experiment. Withold the insulin and see what happens to his numbers.

Jen
 
WELL, I DID THAT. HE HAD 70 IN THE MORNING AND I DIDNT INJECT HIM AT ALL. AT NOON THAT I WAS BACK FROM WORK HE HIS BG WAS 300! SO, I'LL FOLLOW THE DOCTORS ORDERS CAUSE HE IS GOING SO WELL. THE ONLY THINK I DID WITHOUT LISTENING TO THE DOCTOR WAS THAT I GIVE A LITTLE LESS INSULINE THAN HE TELLS ME BECAUSE I AM VERY AFRAID OF THE HYPOGLYKAIMIA SO, EVEN IF HE HAS 70 (CONSIDERING IT IS 100 BECAUSE OF THE MACHINE THAT TENDS TO OVERATE RESULTS) I INJECT HIM BUT I GIVE 0,015 ml of caninsuline instead of 0,02 that the doctor said. he actually agreed with me that if he keeps on the good work, we will reduse the dosage the next week but i already have done this. thanks everybody and we will keep in touch! merry christmas for all of us.... ;-)
 
Please take your all caps off as it is the cyber equivalent of shouting.

So no insulin at 70 led to a 300 later. So she does need insulin. But by giving at 70 you run a very real chance of causing hypoglycemia. We do not advocate adding 30 points especially at low numbers so your theory there may be dangerous. I wish you good luck.
 
Please do not add points to the reading you get on your meter. I have found that majority of meters, especially once you get under 100, are reading true. I tested my OneTouch Ultra at the vets. I tested Hope before they drew blood and I tested her immediately after they drew blood. The lab report, not their machine, blood work was sent out, read only 8 points difference. None of us ever add points onto the readings we get.
 
i want to agree with you all about not adding points to the meter. but sparkle (my cat) shows otherwise. when the meter shows 30 he is fine and eating and purring and generaly very lively. the first time i saw this number i gave him corn syrup immediately! but he was already fine.he had no signs of hypoglykaimia. and i think my doctor was talking about the particular meter of bayer (contourr) so i dont know about the other meters. now he is eating low carb canned food on his own but he is not eating much. his bg is stable around 60-90. but i dont know how to stimulate his appetite. any ideas? i have tried 2-3 types od canned food , but the same result.he wants very much to eat dry food , so sometimes i springle a little dry food on the canned so that he starts eating. sometimes he eats sometimes he doesnt. but always after the shot he eats a little so that he avoids hypo. so i'm generally happy. i would like though to see him eat more and with appetite.... :sad:
 
Were you able to find out if your vet has Fortiflora? It is a powder that you can sprinkle on the wet food and most cats really like it. In Canada and the US we buy it from the vet or from on line supply stores. I'm not sure if it is available in Europe or where you would get it, but I recommend asking about it.
 
Couple other things to try is sprinkling the canned food with parmesan cheese or if he like catnip a little catnip. Also you can try warming it a little bit as well to help it smell more. Cats like to eat things that have a strong smell. If they can't smell it they won't eat it. I have even stirred in a little tuna juice into my cats' food when they weren't eating enough, which seemed to help as well.

Mel, Max & The Fur Gang
 
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE. I HAVE TRIED EVERY ONE OF THEM. THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS FOR HIM IS SPRINGLING A BIT OF DRY FOOD ON HIS WET FOOD. I KNOW ITS NOT THE BEST BUT HE ACTUALLY EATS THIS WAY AND HIS BG STILL REMAINS LOW. HE IS 13 YEARS OLD AND BEFORE HE TURNS INTO DIABETIC HE HAD NEVER EATEN CANNED FOOD BEFORE ONLY DRY FOOD AND THATS WHY HE PREFFERS IT I THINK
 
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