Debbie & Mishka
Member
Well, my boy is sick. Threw up a little last night -- not feeling good at all. Don't know whether to give shot. Already an hour behind schedule.
Help -- Mishka will not eat this morning. Insulin? BG 197
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Kris & Teasel
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He's close enough to the 200 mark that you could give his tiny dose. If he'll eat even a couple of teaspoons afterward he should be OK. We all worry about kitties vomiting, not eating and not getting insulin. Have you tried testing urine ketones? Always a good idea at times like this, even if BG isn't high.
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Debbie & Mishka
Member
BG 197 was the AMPS which was later than usual. He was sick this morning at 3:00 am and I knew something was wrong. He is absolutely REFUSING to look at food. Doesn't act hungry. Just curled up in his bed. Even refusing his treats. Vet said his phosphorus was 6, so I suspect the kidney issues are getting worse. I do not think I'll be able to get him to eat after the shot, even a teaspoon. Ketones this weekend were negative.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Then maybe a call in to your vet. I don't have experience with CKD (anti jinx!) but wouldn't anti nausea and appetite stimulant meds be helpful?
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Got a call into the vet now. Mishka throwing up again. Think I'll hold off on the shot. Thanks!
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
Yes, do let us know what happens. 
Djamila
Very Active Member
Does Mishka have a history of pancreatitis? If you go to the vet, I would first ask for a ketone test, and then ask for the spec-fPL (not the SNAP f-PL) test for pancreatitis. Both common causes of not eating and vomiting in our sugar cats. The SNAP test just tells you yes or no and has more false results, the spec gives an idea of severity. Please give us an update later. and hugs and healing vines to you and Mishka.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thank you all very, very much! I'll keep you posted.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Well, got an appointment tomorrow morning with the vet. He said ok not to give insulin this am. Course, there is always tonight's dilemma 
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thanks Djamila -- I will definitely ask about testing for pancreatitis.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Hi Djamila -- vet appt today -- Mishka didn't eat all day yesterday, and a few licks at FF this morning. Vet gave a shot of Cerenia today and this evening Mishka ate some BFF cat food I ordered from Amazon. He ate about a little less than a half a 3 oz can, so that's more than he ate all day yesterday. Probably not the best food, but goal was just to get him to eat something! So, I guess the bottom line is that Mishka's renal function is deteriorating. Creatine increased in just a month -- Probably Stage 3 CKD. Fructosomine test was good; no glucose in urine; no ketones in urine either. And doing the recommended test you said for Pancreatitis. Gave him 0.25 of insulin tonight -- first he's had in over a day. Even with no insulin yesterday, this morning he was "only" at 182 and tonight "only" 169. I feel like I've been holding my breath for two days...LOL. One step at a time, right? Eat, eat, eat...LOL. thanks for all your support. It's definitely going to be a continuing rollercoaster.
Kris & Teasel
Very Active Member
You can post on the main health forum for advice on handling lowered kidney function. Many members deal with that.
Djamila
Very Active Member
Oh Debbie, I'm so sorry to hear the CKD is advancing, but as Kris said, there are a number of folks here who deal with both conditions and may be able to help you with treatment options. Also, are you familiar with Tanya's site?
http://felinecrf.org/index.htm
There is a TON of info on there and lots of experience.
I'm glad the vet gave some cerenia and she's starting to eat a bit. And I agree that when a cat won't eat, you feed whatever they will eat and then just get back on low carb when the appetite returns. Please keep us posted as you get labs back. Sending healing vines to little Mishka and hugs to you!
http://felinecrf.org/index.htm
There is a TON of info on there and lots of experience.
I'm glad the vet gave some cerenia and she's starting to eat a bit. And I agree that when a cat won't eat, you feed whatever they will eat and then just get back on low carb when the appetite returns. Please keep us posted as you get labs back. Sending healing vines to little Mishka and hugs to you!
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thanks Djamila. Yes I have read tons of info on Tanya's site and have tried three times to join their support group. I must be doing something wrong with the "confirmation" or "subscription." Vet said Mishka is just dealing with so much at once -- still has the upper respiratory infection (of unknown cause), the diabetes and now the CKD. I'm encouraged that he ate just a little; otherwise the vet was recommending syringe feeding with the renal food which would have made his BG spiral! So hopefully Mishka will surprise me and eat all of his food tonight .
.
Djamila
Very Active Member
Please please please forgive me if we've already talked about this -- but with CKD it's good to have a food that is both low carb and low phosphorous if you can find one you can afford and that kitty will eat. Raw foods tend to fit that description the best. Is that something you have already tried or are willing to try? And again I'm so sorry if we've already talked about this. My memory is awful about which kitty likes what foods.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
LOL Djamila, I'm with you on the memory stuff! No, we hadn't talked about the Raw foods, but I've read that switching to raw is a good idea. Do you have any websites or recommendations on how to start? I would definitely be ready to try raw IF Mishka will eat it!!! That is always the question, isn't it? Tonight he ate Weruva BFF Tuna and Salmon which was totally new to him. It is less than 10% carb and I think low in phosphorus. Nutrition list says Max .20% Phosphorus. It's not on Tanya's list though and she recommends foods less than .5% phosphorus. If you have any info to share regarding raw, I'm definitely willing to give it a try. Thanks a million times over for all your advice!!!
Djamila
Very Active Member
Some cats do well transitioning first to freeze dried raw, and then to frozen raw. Stay away from Stella and Chewy's as they are less than transparent about their nutritional profile. Primal is a good company and their Turkey is both low carb and low phosphorus, plus the Calcium
hos. ratio is good. I'm not sure it's as low as .5% though. i want to say it's around 1%.
Rad Cat is probably the best thing going for commercial raw. Atticus (my other cat) went straight from kibble to that, although from what I've read, most cats need a couple of transition steps along the way. It's good, but it's kind of a pain since it comes in a tub that you have to thaw, and then if they aren't going to eat it all fast enough, you have to portion it out, refreeze, and then rethaw as you need it. It's not that big of a deal, but I get tired of doing it.
Nature's Variety Instinct Raw is good, but it's higher carb than most raw foods (still low enough to be okay though). Not sure on phosphorus though.
My current favorite right now is homemade raw. I know it sounds crazy, but it's super easy. I get this supplement: www.foodfurlife.com and all you have to do is weigh the raw meat, toss in a couple tablespoons of water, blend/chop/grind, stir in a scoop of supplement powder and you're done. I can make a week worth of food in about ten minutes. And Sam looooooves it. It's the first raw he's actually wanted to eat.
hos. ratio is good. I'm not sure it's as low as .5% though. i want to say it's around 1%. Rad Cat is probably the best thing going for commercial raw. Atticus (my other cat) went straight from kibble to that, although from what I've read, most cats need a couple of transition steps along the way. It's good, but it's kind of a pain since it comes in a tub that you have to thaw, and then if they aren't going to eat it all fast enough, you have to portion it out, refreeze, and then rethaw as you need it. It's not that big of a deal, but I get tired of doing it.
Nature's Variety Instinct Raw is good, but it's higher carb than most raw foods (still low enough to be okay though). Not sure on phosphorus though.
My current favorite right now is homemade raw. I know it sounds crazy, but it's super easy. I get this supplement: www.foodfurlife.com and all you have to do is weigh the raw meat, toss in a couple tablespoons of water, blend/chop/grind, stir in a scoop of supplement powder and you're done. I can make a week worth of food in about ten minutes. And Sam looooooves it. It's the first raw he's actually wanted to eat.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Great information Djamila. I think I like the idea of the homemade. I will be doing some research for sure. What did we do without the Internet?
Rachel
Very Active Member
Homemade is a good option. Mine have all taken to it with love! I actually tried to transition slowly and they would eat the raw food first and only eat the canned when they got super hungry! That supplement Djamila talks about should provide you with a good, low carb, low phosphorus raw food if you give it a try!
Let us know if you have any questions about it. I make my own with Dr. Lisa's recipe, but you shouldn't use that...it's not recommended for CKD cats. I'm so glad that Mishka seems to be eating some and hopefully feeling a bit better!
Let us know if you have any questions about it. I make my own with Dr. Lisa's recipe, but you shouldn't use that...it's not recommended for CKD cats. I'm so glad that Mishka seems to be eating some and hopefully feeling a bit better!
Djamila
Very Active Member
I didn't realize that -- is it because of the bones?
Rachel
Very Active Member
Yep! Dr.Lisa says not to feed that specific recipe for CKD on her site but she doesn’t say why. I looked it up though and the bones add to the phosphorus levels. You could actually sub eggshell for bones and that should be fine...if you want to go that way Debbie, I can find more info on it. But honestly, the foodfurlife that Djamila suggested is probably easiest and definitely is fine with phos levels.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thank you ALL for your info on raw. I will be trying that for sure. Probably go with Djamila's easier version. Right now, Mishka is refusing all food AGAIN. I think his URI is kicking in big time. My husband had him in the "sauna" (aka steamy bathroom) twice today. I gave him a few saline drops in each nostril and he sneezed a little. Trying to clear those nasal passages. Off to the vet tomorrow morning and probably assisted feeding to get something in him. It's a rollercoaster ride! If I could just get him to EAT I feel there are some good options for feeding that will be gentle on his kidneys and low carb. I didn't even test tonight because this morning BG only 135 (no shot) and no food all day. I still am unsure of whether I'm ever, ever doing the right thing
. And all of this just since January.
PussCatPrince - GA
Very Active Member
Hi there.
You may find this link/condo from Bron and Sheba about a homemade raw diet for a cat with diabetes and ckd helpful.
My Ty is diabetic & CKD stage II. I would have continued to transition to this diet from canned but Ty now has digestion of food issues ( pancreatitis/triaditis) so I have to be careful what goes in one end will not shoot straight out the other.
HTH
You may find this link/condo from Bron and Sheba about a homemade raw diet for a cat with diabetes and ckd helpful.
My Ty is diabetic & CKD stage II. I would have continued to transition to this diet from canned but Ty now has digestion of food issues ( pancreatitis/triaditis) so I have to be careful what goes in one end will not shoot straight out the other.
HTH
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Debbie - any update on Mishka? Is the assist feeding working? Can the vet give anything to help with the URI, or does it just have to run its course? It sounds like you and DH are doing everything you can right now. Sending healing vines and hugs to you all!
Hi Djamilia -- whew...it's been a rough few days. Did not have to do assist feeding. Mishka ate a little last night and then today he's eaten about 1.5 oz of his FF. He seems to be feeling better. A little grooming, so that's a good sign. Vet put him on an appetite stimulant called "Entyce." It's for dogs, but some off label use for cats. Supposed to be kidney friendly. He's only had two doses and is at least interested in his food today. We're back on Zeniquin for the URI, with saline nose drops and an antibiotic delivered by drops in nose as well. Sooooo, crossing my fingers that we'll continue to see improvement today. No insulin this a.m. as BG was "only" 145 and I wasn't sure he would eat. BG yesterday was low 200s AM and PM and he got .5 of his insulin. Hopefully, we can get back on track and then I'll start to switch to a kidney friendly low carb diet. Thanks for the healing vines and hugs. Mishka sure appreciates them
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thank you!!! I will sure check it out once Mishka starts eating again.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thanks Rachel -- cautiously optimistic. Seems to be feeling better. No insulin today because I wasn't sure if he would eat. AMPS was 149 and I thought it would be high this evening but then PMPS was only 112. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing by so many NS's! Still researching food options for CKD and diabetes. Right now I'm sticking with his FF just to get him eating.
Debbie & Mishka
Member
thank you!!! I would appreciate any advice on food! What are you feeding Ty now?
Debbie & Mishka
Member
Thanks Djamila. I don't want to be overly dramatic here, but you're a godsend!
. I was surprised that PMPS was so low. Guess Mishka's SS is not so monochromatic as it used to be. By the way, if I try to switch to Raw with the supplement you recommended, what type of protein do you think I should try first? Chicken? I'm afraid that Mishka is fish addicted, so maybe I could add some tuna to start? Any recommendations are very much appreciated!
Rachel
Very Active Member
That is interesting...did he eat okay today? Little food could keep the numbers down I'd think.
What protein does Mishka currently eat usually? Or do you switch flavors around? I feed chicken to my group, though I'm thinking of adding turkey in at some point (I hear it's stinkier and could be more appetizing to kitties). I'm not sure about using fish...I feed no fish to my crew due to varying medical issues. I might pick a protein you know he eats now (chicken probably is cheapest if he eats that) and give it a try to see if he'll eat it.
What protein does Mishka currently eat usually? Or do you switch flavors around? I feed chicken to my group, though I'm thinking of adding turkey in at some point (I hear it's stinkier and could be more appetizing to kitties). I'm not sure about using fish...I feed no fish to my crew due to varying medical issues. I might pick a protein you know he eats now (chicken probably is cheapest if he eats that) and give it a try to see if he'll eat it.
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