HELP! I'm so confused!

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scissorchik

scissorchik

Member Since 2011
Took my cat to a new vet and they ran oodles of tests, saying the last vet didn't do a thorough enough job when he diagnosed Basil as borderline diabetic. He said that most cats on insulin are type a and they never come off insulin. (Basil came off after 9 days last year)

$260 later he tells me that he is under the threshold to give him insulin, and that he needs to lose weight and that he can probably be regulated with food. He then goes on to say he had crystals in his urine and that they are caused by poor quality food.

He tells me that I need to feed him a diet to combat the crystals and help him lose weight by feeding him less than the recommended amount. He sells me Royal Canin SO Feline in BOTH dry and wet, He makes it a point to tell m that its not true that cats should not eat dry food. That quality dry food is perfectly fine.

I KNOW what you all have said about not feeding dry-and I tend to agree with you all, since you deal with this daily. Both cats refused to eat the food, and I ended up feeding them friskies this morning because I work late tonight and the thought of them not eating makes me ill.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can somebody recommend a decent wet food to feed them??? I don't want to be directed to the wet foods list-I would actually like a suggestion or opinion on how I can get Basil to drop some weight and still get enough nutrients to be healthy.

I am so stressed about this that I feel sick. I have to return the vet's food and I will be in for a fight because they will insist that he needs a special diet from them.

I am beyond broke after paying $450 in one week to a vet I don't trust. I feel stupid for taking his word and trusting him, and i feel like I have no idea what I'm doing.

Both cats were eating Friskies pate wet food. Is there a better quality brand that isn't going to clean out my bank account? I think I may have been providing too much food for them-what should the feeding schedule be for a cat not on insulin who needs to lose some weight?

I know that someone out there must have been where I am, and any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Leanne, you're doing great, trust your instincts.

If you want to change the diet a little, I would avoid the dry, as you know. I feed my cats Fancy Feast classics, but I can't say that's much different than the Friskies. If you really feel you need to make a change, perhaps by the large Wellness cans and cut a little Wellness into your Friskies. That way you can keep costs down but keep your vet happy with a little more premium food.
 
Oh man your vet is SO wrong. Most diabetic cats are type 2. Probably 90% or even more of our cats here are type 2, meaning they CAN go into remission.

Friskies food is OK but new documents say it is not as low carb as we originally thought it was because it contains rice. I know the cost of premium foods is a bit overwhelming but you could consider a food like Wellness - although it looks pricy on the outside, Wellness is VERY calorie dense (something like 500 calories in a 12.5oz can) so you can feed less and get more out of it. It is also high quality with human grade meat and no byproducts. It is a bit on the fatty side (but not as bad as foods like EVO) so it is better for putting on weight than losing it, however I have 2 cats maintaining very healthy body weight and muscle mass on Wellness. They can both split a single 12.5oz can a day and that comes out to less than $3 a day to feed both of them.
 
I do understand where you are at, as do most everybody else on this board.
First off the vet is wrong about the food for sure, you dont need his expensive diet food esp not the dry. All of my kitties dropped weight when I found a wet food they all liked and started feeding it only. the 3 civies are getting 1/4-1/3 can( for one of them the 1/3 is to much as he is regaining his lost wt on it) (5.5oz) 2 times daily of Natures Variety Instinct from PetCo, and then they will get little bits of Bugs (sugar kitty) food when I feed her (she doesnt always eat all her food). Bug is on Before Grain poultry flavors, Fancy feast Classics, Simply Nourish (from Pet Smart) and whatever else that is low carb that she will eat as she is getting very picky.
The Friskies is good to but for it you need to check out Dr Lisas food list because not all of them are low carb.
 
Also try adding a bit of warm water to their food to help flush out their urinary system - a 1:1 food:water ratio is good. This might help your cat feel less hungry during the weight loss phase too :)
 
Check out Dr. Pierson's take on UT issues: http://catinfo.org/#Cystitis_. The majority of cats with UT issues do not have any problems as long as they are properly hydrated, meaning, on a canned diet only. Prescription UT diets treat a symptom (acidic/alkaline urine), which is caused by chronic dehydration. What you need to do is treat the cause of the problem, which is chronic dehydration caused by a dry diet, and you won't have any issues.

Note where she says,
Crystals are often a normal finding in a cat's urine and it is not necessarily appropriate to put the cat on a "special urinary tract" formula when these are found in the urine.
Click to expand...

He might be right about the weight management, however. Because most cats are type 2 diabetics, obesity an weight plays a huge role in controlling the diabetes. If most of your numbers are below 200, then I would try a weight loss plan with a low carb diet. I would highly recommend something like Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, Surf and Turf, and Grammy's Pot Pie for the weight loss, because it's very high protein, low carb, and low fat (Grammy's Pot Pie is a little higher in carbs at 8%, but because it's low glycemic I've found it doesn't affect BG at all in my cat. Other cats may be different). Many of the premium foods like Wellness or EVO are very high in fat which makes it more difficult for the cat to naturally maintain a healthy weight.

Bandit is a formerly obese cat, and I've tried, many, many foods (Fancy Feast, Wellness, EVO, Instinct, and more) in my struggle to get him maintaining a healthy weight. The problem with obese cats is that the obesity slows their metabolisms, and you have to kick start it again to help with the weight loss. Very high protein diets will help do this, and the Merrick's flavors I listed are the best I've seen in terms of protein/fat/carb ratios for cats. It took a lot of trial an error before I stumbled on the Merricks (I originally bought it for my CKD cat because of the lower phosphorus content), and I couldn't believe the change in Bandit's body. Not only does he easily maintain his ideal weight on it, his soft body turned to solid muscle. I'm a big fan.

Here's tips on how to implement a safe weight loss plan: http://catinfo.org/?link=felineobesity#Implementing_a_Safe_Weight-Loss_Program

The most important thing to remember is while you want to stick to a set amount of food, you can feed as frequently as you need to. You just divide the overall food up into smaller portions. If I feed Bandit any less than 4 times a day, he'll rip my house apart. While the cat is getting used to scheduled feedings, you might even want to go to 6 times a day to keep them happy. You can freeze portions and/or put them in an auto feeder (if your cat is a gobbler like mine).

If you're seeing a lot of numbers above 200, then you may need to give insulin for a short time.
 
Oh, and the vet is completely wrong about "type a" and insulin dependency, which is the most common type of diabetes in dogs, and most dogs do end up insulin dependent for the rest of their lives. Cats are not dogs. Most cats' diabetes is similar to type 2 in humans and is commonly caused by a combination of obesity and/or high carb diets. You might want to print this off for your vet: http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/index.html?page=43608&pid=0. The large majority of cats (84+%) go into remission and no longer need insulin, but only if they are eating a low carb canned diet, and are on a long acting insulin with dose adjustments made via daily home testing. If your vet is not encouraging this treatment plan, then it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't see cats go into remission. My current vet rarely saw cats go into remission until she changed her diet, insulin, and home testing recommendations. Now she sees the majority go into remission within a year.

It drives me absolutely batty the way cats get treated like dogs by some vets, when they are completely different animals, with a completely different physiology and nutritional needs. Vets need to read up on treatment for BOTH dogs and cats, because especially with nutritionally/metabolic related ailments like diabetes and urinary tract disease, treatment is completely different for the two animals. Here's another document for you to print and bring him: http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf.
 
I would definitely steer away from the Royal Canin Urinary SO - that's what I was feeding my cat when he became diabetic! cat(2)_steam FWIW - I feed Wellness turkey and chicken flavors but I needed my guy to gain weight (and he has). I be sure to add water to the food because Buster was once diagnosed with struvite crystals. Hang in there!
 
I do really like Merricks food, my cats get Cowboy Cookout every other day to help offset a bit of the fatty Wellness, but it is pretty pricy (here it is a little under $2 after tax for a 5.5oz can) and it is not super calorie dense at 162 calories per 5.5oz can. Between my 2 cats (roughly 500 calories) they would need about 3 cans, so that would be $6 a day to feed them Cowboy Cookout... I'd love to feed it strictly because it is very good in protein/fat ratio and low phosphorous, but that's just too expensive :lol:
 
Ry & Scooter said:
I do really like Merricks food, my cats get Cowboy Cookout every other day to help offset a bit of the fatty Wellness, but it is pretty pricy (here it is a little under $2 after tax for a 5.5oz can) and it is not super calorie dense at 162 calories per 5.5oz can. Between my 2 cats (roughly 500 calories) they would need about 3 cans, so that would be $6 a day to feed them Cowboy Cookout... I'd love to feed it strictly because it is very good in protein/fat ratio and low phosphorous, but that's just too expensive :lol:
Click to expand...

I'm paying $1.05-$1.12 per 5.5 oz can (depending on what coupons I've collected). That makes it cheaper for me to feed than Fancy Feast. You might want to shop around and see if there's someplace near you that's cheaper: http://www.merrickpetcare.com/find-our-products/. Bandit (at 12 lbs, average size for a male) needs 1 can ( a day to maintain him at his ideal weight. Remember that Dr. Lisa's calorie estimate is generous; many cats need less than what the formula requires, especially if you're feeding a highly digestible food like Merricks. According to the formula, I should be feeding 233 calories to Bandit a day, but what he actually needs is 180-190. That's the other place where I got stuck with his weight loss.
 
I have looked, unfortunately I have only found one place that sells it, it doesn't even come up on that store locator :? The prices at that store are actually cheaper than big brand stores ie. Petsmart charges $3.29 for a large can of Wellness (and they do NOT do the case discount) and $.72 for a can of Fancy Feast which is insane. That's just Canada though.

My civvie Charli could probably do fine on less, but Scooter eats like a horse and still looks a bit on the skinny side right now... (think he might have other health issues though, ie. hyperthyroid though). ECID! If you can get it that cheap, go for that then! :lol:
 
You should return the RX food to the vet and tell him that your cat won't eat it. As I understand it, the food company guarantees the food and the vet has to take it back.

Adding water to wet food helps with crystals. Some cats will drink more water if they have a fountain. I don't know if anyone else has tried a urinary acidifier, but you could ask your vet about that.
 
One other option is to get it on Amazon--http://www.amazon.com/Merrick-Cowboy-Cookout-2-Ounce-Count/dp/B0084MB7VC/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20, it's $1.30 a can. A friend of mine orders all hers by the case via Amazon because she is willing to pay a little extra to not have to go to the store. She's also feeding all 4 of her cats Merricks as opposed to my 1 cat, so buying several cases at a time works for her. However, I'm not sure how shipping to Canada works? It may be way more than that if you don't get the free shipping in Canada.
 
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