HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but DM!!

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acw1

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I have read a lot of info online that suggests that over the counter, regular, wet cat foods can be just as, if not MORE, effective at treating feline diabetes as the Purina DM. In fact, the dry DM is all I can (barely) afford and I've read it is not really effective at all. BUT I need my vet to work with my on an alternative to the DM so that we can get my cat's insulin right. But every vet I call says their protocol is to treat with DM and insulin. I'm TRYING to get my current vet to budge, but they are giving me flack about it, and it's just beginning to be a real pain in the butt. I feel like they're basically saying I must give my cat DM... or let her die. I'm so frustrated. I love my cat. But long-term, I can't afford to be paying $50/month on her insulin and food.

LOL. My vet just called. We were in earlier today for a glucose test and they said they would call me back with an over the counter recommendation, since I was pushing the food issue again with them. They did not give me a recommendation just now. They just said to look at the cans and find one with less than 7% carbs and high protein. Duh. I already knew that. And luckily I already found detailed info online that suggests the best OTC food to meet those requirements. But doesn't my vet need to adjust my cat's insulin as I switch food? I feel like they are going to allow my cat to go into a diabetic coma... or die... to prove their point that the DM is the only thing that can possibly help a diabetic cat.

Am I way off base here? Does anyone else feed their diabetic cat OTC food? How do you find a vet that is sympathetic to that and will help?
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

quick questions-
what kind of insulin?
how much?
currently feeding dry? changed to wet when?
where are you?

I'll post some more.
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

my original vet was all prescription food and bad insulin choice but fortunately i was like you, i wanted to know more. so i got online and fortunately i found this website. i got extremely lucky because thru this message board i found out i had a vet right here in my town that was known countrywide pretty much for her knowledge on feline diabetes so we switched vets and never looked back.

btw, the vet we switched to actually holds the patent on the wet version of the DM food, and she actually recommended other foods. and she would NEVER EVER recommend dry food of any kind. she actually forbade it if you were a client of hers. sadly she retired from practice a couple years after we found her but the vet that bought her clinic is just as awesome! so we have gotten really lucky.

if you post your location, just city and state, someone here might have a vet recommendation for you. if not, or if you've checked with all the vets in your area, maybe with some information from members, you can bring your vet into the modern era of feline diabetes treatment. it has to be done with a good attitude though or yeah, the vet could turn on you pretty quick if they feel insulted.
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

Hi,

What type of insulin and dose currently? Yes, when switching from dry to low carb canned, the dose usually needs to be lowered. Are you home testing?

Canned DM is not too high in carbs. Just expensive and not any better than store brands quality wise. DM dry is bad, period.
Carl
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

WELCOME! MOST of our cats eat OTC food! I'd guesstimate at least 95%. Your vet gets a marketing visit from a GREAT Purina rep that fills him with lots of bull, fills his desks with pens and calendars...look, there's a clock and humm...you all have caps too. On top of that, the vet makes $$ off the sales and can't lose - if someone returns a product or part of a product, the company pays the vet back for it.

Here's a list of OTC foods with 'as fed' carb contents - we feed Friskies and FancyFeast pates:

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html - both old and new canned lists are useful....

Are you home testing? If you're still having the vet do it, you're spending needless money (vet won't tell you that!) and putting your cat in danger. Insulin shouldn't be given without knowing where their current BG level is just like a human. A doctor would never have a mother give insulin to her child without the same...why are cats any different? It's not!

When you change from the DM, you will NEED to home test as just that food change can cause a natural drop.

What kind of insulin are you using?

HUGS!
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

what kind of insulin?- makes a big difference.

how much? 1unit 2x day is what is should be. more than that and it could harm.

currently feeding dry? You are right- carbs BAD, wet good. If you are giving insulin now BEFORE you change over to wet you need to start home testing. to find out what her levels are because when her carbs go down so do her levels and you don't want them to get too low. And once you start doing these at home you don't have to pay the vet to do them (most of which are very incorrect as a vet visit stresses the cat out and causes their numbers to be higher- unless your cat is a cool cucumber on the steel table :lol: ) For what the vet charges you could purchase a good meter (Relion Micro or Confirm from wal-mart, Bayer is good too- DO NOT get anything with TRU/E or Freestyle as they are bad meters) with strips and lancets (get the smaller gauge #'s for initial poking).

where are you? there might be someone on the board close to you who can help

When was your kitty diagnosed? (What's the name?)

There are many links and much help on this site- but it does take a bit to take it all in.

Good luck and welcome!
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

You can always say your cat won't eat it! Spitzer was quite content on a mix of Sophisticat (now Great Choice), Wellness, Fancy Feast, Purina Pro Plan, and Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets (I mixed the higher cost with the lower to help my budget).

And we have a number of veterinary articles to provide your vet ... if you think your vet needs a bit of updating and won't go ballistic if you say so. Phrase it as "you have so much to keep up on, that you may have missed these recent articles on contemporary feline diabetes management" and provide the following:

Glargine & BG control-Roomp & Rand_2009-JFMS
AAHA Feline Diabetes Treatment Guidelines
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

When Bandit was diagnosed, my vet handed me a list of OTC low carb canned foods in different price ranges and told me to pick the best one I could afford. She told me that the prescription diet for diabetes was unnecessary because there are so many commercial options, and I'd be better off using that money to buy test strips for the human glucometer she told me I had to purchase.

Are you home testing? Home testing is not only the safest and most accurate way to dose insulin, it will save you a TON of money. If you are home testing, you don't need to pay for any glucose testing at the vet, period. I was lucky and my vet told me I HAD to home test from the start because testing in the office produced inaccurate results due to stress (which raises blood sugar), so the only vet bills I've ever had from Bandit's diabetes is the initial blood test and urinalysis that diagnosed him.

Unfortunately, vets recommend prescription foods and office testing either because they are behind in their research, or because they like the money it puts in their pocket. The way to tell the difference is by bringing your vet research that shows that these practices are no longer recommended, and if they say thank you and work with you, they are probably worth keeping. If they give you resistance or try to convince you you're wrong despite the evidence staring them in the face, I would switch vets.
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

I haven't read all the replies yet. Thank you guys so much for responding!

My cat is on ProZinc - 2 units twice a day
She is eating Purina dry DM
She was diagnosed 2 weeks ago
I live in a suburb of Nashville, TN
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

I think you are the third newbie from Tennessee in the past few days. You guys need to form a support group!

Insulin fine. Dose higher than we start with. We generally start with .5 - one unit every 12 hours. Then we test the blood glucose levels of the cat and determine whether to increase. (Easy to increase as needed by small amounts, impossible to get the insulin out of the cat if it is too much!)

We feed wet low carb food. See this website by a vet: www.catinfo.org BUT don't change to low carb until you are testing at home. It may be that the dry is keeping her numbers high enough to compensate for the dose. When we switched Oliver from dry to wet, his numbers came down 100 points overnight. If we had given him his usual dose, he would have hypoed.

Home testing. See links and tips here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287 We've taught hundreds of people how to test over the internet. We'd love to teach you.
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

If you're changing the diet, I would reduce to 1u. Most cats on a low carb, canned diet do not need much more than 1u of insulin.

Does your vet realize that the prescription dry DM is higher than the 7% carbs they recommended for you to get in a canned food? Purina DM is 13% carbs, and diabetic cats need less than 10% carbs. It contains corn, and soy, ingredients that diabetic cats need to avoid. The only prescription diet that is suitable for a diabetic cat is Purina DM canned (3% carbs). And the ingredients are nearly identical cheaper, low carb commercial foods also produced by Purina, so you're paying an extra dollar a can for just the label. If your vet continues to give you grief over the prescription food, ask them exactly how this food is better formulated for diabetics than a commercial food, and what special ingredients it contains that makes it better for a diabetic. They either won't be able to answer you, or they will make up an explanation (which unless they are very good fabricators, will not be convincing).

More info on prescription diets for you: http://catinfo.org/#Prescription_Diets_and_Marketing_Labels
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I think you are the third newbie from Tennessee in the past few days. You guys need to form a support group!

Insulin fine. Dose higher than we start with. We generally start with .5 - one unit every 12 hours. Then we test the blood glucose levels of the cat and determine whether to increase. (Easy to increase as needed by small amounts, impossible to get the insulin out of the cat if it is too much!)

We feed wet low carb food. See this website by a vet: www.catinfo.org BUT don't change to low carb until you are testing at home. It may be that the dry is keeping her numbers high enough to compensate for the dose. When we switched Oliver from dry to wet, his numbers came down 100 points overnight. If we had given him his usual dose, he would have hypoed.

Home testing. See links and tips here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287 We've taught hundreds of people how to test over the internet. We'd love to teach you.
Click to expand...

So, I can learn how to home test online and mainly monitor the diabetes myself? Because that's what's so frustrating to me; I feel like I'm at the mercy of these vets who seem to have only THEIR best interests at heart, and aren't earnestly helping me look for the most viable treatment for my cat.
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

I learned to test here on FDMB....as did hundreds and hundreds of others... :-D

Don't miss the OTC food links above...

HUGS!
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

Absolutely! Most people here use their vets for emergencies and routine health issues. They take the blood glucose levels at home and consult with both this board and their vet if they wish. It is a home managed disease, just like with humans.
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

By all means yes, you can learn how and test him yourself! We've all done it, and if you go to youtube and search for "feline diabetes testing" there's tons of videos.

On the food and the vet thing... you don't have to tell the vet you switched. If they ask if you need more food, just say "nope, still good on food". They can't really dictate diet, dosing, or anything. You're paying them, right? If you home test, then dosing decisions become "yours", not theirs. Same on food. Feed what you want, just don't say anything. The numbers will improve, and when you show them the numbers you are getting, they can't argue with success.

If you switch off the dry food, start home testing first, and most likely the numbers will indicate that the dose can be lowered a good bit. We can help you with all that stuff!


Carl
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

My vet swears by the dry DM, too, but it's not what we use. Carl's right, the vet can't make you feed what he/she dictates. When I found this place, I learned I could do most everything at home as far his diabetes treatment. Saves us money and saves Hershey the stress of dealing with the vet! ;-) Our vet was far from being in agreement with the way we wanted to do things, but it is going well and I figure she can't argue with the results she'll (no doubt) notice at his next appointment. (He was diagnosed in Nov, 2011 and hasn't needed to be seen since.) I have sent his SS to her, but she said she couldn't open it. Still working on that...

You've already met some SUPER people here who are great at sharing what they've learned and holding your hand when you need it. :-D

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

acw1 said:
So, I can learn how to home test online and mainly monitor the diabetes myself? Because that's what's so frustrating to me; I feel like I'm at the mercy of these vets who seem to have only THEIR best interests at heart, and aren't earnestly helping me look for the most viable treatment for my cat.
Click to expand...

Most of us treat our cat's diabetes like people treat their own diabetes! We test their blood glucose and with help from others here, learn what the BG values at certain times mean and how to adjust the insulin dose occasionally.

You would be better off and save money if you test at home and not have to run the cat to the vet every week where they charge you ridiculous sums to do the same thing and get unreliable results. Cats get stressed when out of their normal environment, which raises their blood glucose. We see it too often here - the vet has recommended a dose sometimes in the multiple unit range which is way higher than the cat needs and the cat hypos because the dosage is based on stress related high BGs. Some vets will keep raising the dose until the cat hypos, then they lower it! That is the Old School way of treating feline diabetes. So is pushing the DM food on you. There are plenty of low carb canned foods available.

We have advocated the New School of treating Feline Diabetes for over 10 years now. Unfortunately too many people think you "can't believe everything you read online." While basically that's true, in regards to Feline Diabetes, you are in a no BS zone here, 'cause all we deal with are BGs. :-D
 
Re: HELP! I can't find a vet that treats with anything but D

Absolutely you can learn to test at home and with the help from the folks here learn to take those numbers and adjust dosage as needed. In fact I have 3 diabetic cats that I adopted as diabetics. My most recent adoptive just went to the vet's not to have her glucose checked although the receptionist kept pushing her having a curve there, until I politely told them "No Thanks, I test at home and her preshot value today was 290" lol What she went in for was to be shaved because she came to me so badly matted I couldn't begin to get them out. Other than that i have no need to take her back in until she is due for her vaxs again. Same with my other 2 diabetics, they go to the vet's for the same things my other 11 cats go....dentals, vaxs, or because they are sick.

That's it everything concerning their diabetes I do for them just as I would if they were an human child that is diabetic, I test their bloodsugar, I run curves to determine dose increases and decreases etc. If you look at my Autumn's spreadsheet you will see that in two short weeks of her being finally treated for her diabetes she has gone from running in the 500s to her preshot this morning of 150. :-D No vet needed to tell me how to treat her....shave her ..yes, get her a script for insulin...yep, give her a helath certificate to travel ...you betcha, everything else is in my hands.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
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