? HELP! 11 July, Minerva, AMPS 121, +2.5 212 +4.5 238, +11.5 381, no appetite

Joy W

Joy W

Member Since 2021
Thanks @Wendy&Neko for your comments and questions on my last post.

I liked your dose idea right up until I got her AMPS today - 121, no time to stall, and obvious signs that her appetite has plummeted in the last 24 hours (it was picking back up, but from AMPS yesterday to AMPS today she barely ate compared to usual and she was incredibly disinterested in breakfast), so I skipped!

Her appetite is terrible today, she has only eaten about half a patty so far today and usually she would eat the whole thing in one sitting and still be happy to eat her pate. In the 12 hours before I posted last night her appetite had taken a marked plunge, and has not improved, she is showing lethargy, and to top if off when I scooped her box last night I found a very soft loose stool, and it wasn't covered, which is unlike her. She is booked for the vet tomorrow afternoon which is the earliest they could see her.

The timing is terrible: my partner is having a bad pain flare, we have two employees and one is away at a training course all week, and I leave Wednesday for 6 days, so no idea how we are going to look after her and keep our business open when we are so down in resources. I am worried.

I am not sure if they ran a GI panel last time; I did say I wanted to try B12 and they said they wouldn't prescribe it until they tested for it and then they didn't prescribe it (I know I can use a human supplement but haven't found the right one yet) so not sure if that means they forgot or thought it was fine. She is on Fancy Feast, she was exclusively on Salmon and Shrimp from her last fussy patch to this one. She has dermatitis and fish based foods really seem to help, and I have also wondered about chicken and beef allergies and although there is probably either or both in the "meat byproducts" she definitely seems happier with just the fish flavoured ones.

The raw patties she gets when she is off her FF are made from goat, pork and lamb meat, organs, and bones, chosen to be beef and chicken free. There are much fewer low carb food options here: basically Fancy Feast, and the much more expensive Ziwi Peak, Feline Natural, and Zealandia - and she has shown minimal enthusiasm for Ziwi and Feline Natural so far. I have just ordered a fully balanced, low allergen, raw meat diet so will try her on that when it arrives (the patties are supplementary, not complete, and I can't find a completer here in NZ yet, but she loves them so I have high hopes for moving her to raw).

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...342-6-351-8-335-pmps-344.265617/#post-2974230
 
Yes that is my worry with the dramatic downturn in appetite - she has had these episode of increased fussiness/decreased appetite and signs of nausea/upset tum several times before, and in all cases she comes right with largely no intervention other than the cat buffet/offerings of raw meat/me tearing my hair out. She has been tested for pancreatitis (and liver, kidney, thyroid, and UTI) at least 3 of those episodes with no worrying results, and only actually given a treatment (cerenia) on one of those episodes. So was hoping it was the same weirdness again. Her appetite had been improving again right up until AMPS yesterday when she ate a small amount for breakfast but over the next few hours just ate so much less than usual, and then nothing from her overnight bowl - and then she also didn't wake me up for food this morning and was only moderately interested in her raw meat breakfast (which she usually loses her mind over). She is booked for vet tomorrow for yet another pancreatitis scan and whatever else they want to look for, and I will get whatever food I can get into her tonight when I get home, regardless of carbs. I think this is the right approach for food right now, but let me know if I am wrong!

We have a blood ketone meter, I was out of strips last night but my aunt is staying and has picked some up for me today, so I will test ketones when I get home tonight. If high, I will bypass tomorrow's appointment and take her straight to the after hours vet tonight (that is what credit cards are for, right?).

Thanks for the link to making food, I am still trying to find the bit about not needing a supplement, but I will check it out, thank you!

I will be sure to let you know how she goes tonight, and how her vet visit is tomorrow. Quietly freaking out to be honest - even with all her fussy episodes this is the lowest her appetite has ever been.
 
Please help folk:

Can anyone tell me what point on a human blood ketone meter I should be concerned?

Minerva's appetite plummeted from her AMPS yesterday, she ate some breakfast but much less than usual, and her daytime, dinner, and overnight eating was very reduced. Today she ate some breakfast but nothing during the day and only a couple of mouthfuls since I got home.

I skipped her AM shot today as her reading was low, 6.8/122, I had no time to stall, and no idea what would be a suitable dose that was low risk if she didn't eat today.

It is nearly her PMPS, I did an early reading and unsurprisingly it's shot up to 21.2/382, and her ketone test was 1.0/18, which is the highest I've ever seen, but I don't know what the action point is on a human blood ketone meter.

It's been 36 hours since her appetite took what we now know was a dramatic turn for the worse. She is booked in to the vet tomorrow, which will be about +53 hours since she stopped eating much.

A. Am I risking her if I wait that much longer? If it's safe to wait until then (another 18 hours from now) I will, if it's not safe I'll call the after hours vet now and take her. I'm broke as hell but if it's too risky to wait I'll go tonight.

B. She is due for insulin in 50 minutes. Should I dose or not?

She's much more lethargic than usual, but is still purring and interacting with us.

She's on Lantus, 1.5 2 x day.
 
I'm 40 minutes past shot time, gave up waiting on question B. Gave her a half shot as she is still not eating but her bg is sky high.

Still unsure about question A though.

She expressed an interest in milk so at the supermarket now to get pet milk, it is undoubtedly high carb but if it helps her appetite I think it's the right thing to do?
 
I picked up raw kangaroo at the supermarket and offered her that; she was super excited by the offer and sniffed it lots but didn't eat it - I think she wants to eat but isn't feeling up to it. I offered her some cat milk and she will drink that, she's had a few teaspoons, but I'm not sure how much to give her. None of her food she will eat, so basically her appetite is down to nothing now. I did offer her one Temptation and she ate that, what is in that stuff! But I don't think giving her a handful of this is a good idea.

She is still licking ear wax off our fingers (it's her weird idiosyncrasy haha) but otherwise there is nothing she will eat at the moment.

I spoke to the after hours vet and they gave some suggestions for getting her in to the vet tomorrow faster but don't think we need to rush her there tonight. I'm about to do a test and go to bed I think.
 
Joy W said:
Thanks @Wendy&Neko for your comments and questions on my last post.

I liked your dose idea right up until I got her AMPS today - 121, no time to stall, and obvious signs that her appetite has plummeted in the last 24 hours (it was picking back up, but from AMPS yesterday to AMPS today she barely ate compared to usual and she was incredibly disinterested in breakfast), so I skipped!

Her appetite is terrible today, she has only eaten about half a patty so far today and usually she would eat the whole thing in one sitting and still be happy to eat her pate. In the 12 hours before I posted last night her appetite had taken a marked plunge, and has not improved, she is showing lethargy, and to top if off when I scooped her box last night I found a very soft loose stool, and it wasn't covered, which is unlike her. She is booked for the vet tomorrow afternoon which is the earliest they could see her.

The timing is terrible: my partner is having a bad pain flare, we have two employees and one is away at a training course all week, and I leave Wednesday for 6 days, so no idea how we are going to look after her and keep our business open when we are so down in resources. I am worried.

I am not sure if they ran a GI panel last time; I did say I wanted to try B12 and they said they wouldn't prescribe it until they tested for it and then they didn't prescribe it (I know I can use a human supplement but haven't found the right one yet) so not sure if that means they forgot or thought it was fine. She is on Fancy Feast, she was exclusively on Salmon and Shrimp from her last fussy patch to this one. She has dermatitis and fish based foods really seem to help, and I have also wondered about chicken and beef allergies and although there is probably either or both in the "meat byproducts" she definitely seems happier with just the fish flavoured ones.

The raw patties she gets when she is off her FF are made from goat, pork and lamb meat, organs, and bones, chosen to be beef and chicken free. There are much fewer low carb food options here: basically Fancy Feast, and the much more expensive Ziwi Peak, Feline Natural, and Zealandia - and she has shown minimal enthusiasm for Ziwi and Feline Natural so far. I have just ordered a fully balanced, low allergen, raw meat diet so will try her on that when it arrives (the patties are supplementary, not complete, and I can't find a completer here in NZ yet, but she loves them so I have high hopes for moving her to raw).

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...342-6-351-8-335-pmps-344.265617/#post-2974230
Click to expand...
Sending you well wishes and luck - i second @Wendy&Neko s suggestion for anti nausea meds. My guy has bouts of not eating as well ( going through one right now)
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sounds like nausea is o me, you need anti nausea meds. Temptations are really high carb.

Ketones levels are ok if just 1.0 but when she is really high BG, you should give as much insulin as you can. Details in here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/

Good luck at the vet.:bighug:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the comment on the ketones and the insulin, and of course I should have given the full dose with the benefit of a night's sleep and calmer mind :banghead:. I was so worried as her ketone level was the highest I had seen it and couldn't find a clear guide on whether that was "emergency action required" or not and then my ability to think eroded!

I called the after hours vet (there is one in my region) and had a good chat and they agreed that after hours care was not really indicated but that 3.30 today (STILL another 3 and a half hours from now) was too late, so suggested calling my regular vet first thing in the AM and asking if I could drop her off to be admitted for the day, which they said yes so I did that about 3 hours ago. She threw up some bile then ate just over a teaspoon or two of raw kangaroo just before we dropped her off.

Yeah I know Temptations are horribly high carb, but it was 1 and I wanted to see if she had any interest in food at all - and it went straight down with no complaints! So that confirmed she wanted to eat, she just wasn't feeling up to it. I honestly don't know what that stuff is made of that even in her worst moments she is like "hell yeah I will eat that!".

Thank you so much!
 
Lando demando said:
Sending you well wishes and luck - i second @Wendy&Neko s suggestion for anti nausea meds. My guy has bouts of not eating as well ( going through one right now)
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Thank you! I have asked the vet before for anti-nausea meds over the counter and they will only prescribe if I take her in, which I don't want to have to do repeatedly - she hates it (as I am sure the person who got to clean poo out of her tail and belly and paws today understands) and it is a giant hassle. If they won't give me anything over the counter when I pick her up this time, I will have to work out what human options I can safely give her at home. She usually bounces back from one of her fussy patches after I change up her food, and it seemed to be working until Sunday night when she just basically stopped eating suddenly. I really hope I can work out an anti-nausea option for home to have on hand for next time.

Thank you!
 
Joy W said:
Thank you! I have asked the vet before for anti-nausea meds over the counter and they will only prescribe if I take her in, which I don't want to have to do repeatedly - she hates it (as I am sure the person who got to clean poo out of her tail and belly and paws today understands) and it is a giant hassle. If they won't give me anything over the counter when I pick her up this time, I will have to work out what human options I can safely give her at home. She usually bounces back from one of her fussy patches after I change up her food, and it seemed to be working until Sunday night when she just basically stopped eating suddenly. I really hope I can work out an anti-nausea option for home to have on hand for next time.

Thank you!
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Best of luck! Im rooting for you both
 
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