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Mel&fatty

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Hi my name is Mel & I am here with my 8 yr old ( I think) little lion "fatty". I re-homed fatty after his previous owners left him at the local vet. He had been 'living' there in a cage for about 6 months and was btw 7 & 8 kg when he joined my family about 3&1/2 yrs ago...hence the name fatty!
Over the next 2 years his weight became healthy and he is the kindest most special animal I've ever owned. I'll link a photo when I work out how to do it.
My husband & I went over seas for 5 weeks in july this yr, fatty was being baby sat in our home. upon our return he was thin and the baby sitter said he had gone off his food, she tried various substitutes.
Over the next two months he slowly regained his appetite but was still fussy with his food where he had never been before but he continued to become VERY thin, we thought it was just taking time to get him back to normal weight so we fed him on demand to no avail.
He was dx with diabetes last Saturday and the vet kept him for 5 nights. They only tested his bsl once (sometimes twice) a day and were very uncommunicative about what was happening. They sent him home yesterday I suspect only because they are closed on Sunday's, with the instruction to inject him with 3 units of caninsulin twice a day, they did not offer any way of testing his bsl although I asked.
Needless to say I will be taking him to a new vet first thing Monday, one that will engage with me & answer my questions, which of course I have a few after finding this amazing website....thank you
Ps, I am staying awake to watch fatty post his insulin (6am Sunday morn) and I have 3 beginner questions
A) is there a usual amount of time that passes btw giving the shot & the likelihood of a hypo beginning?
B) Does anyone know of a decent vet in Sydney Australia, preferably on the northern beaches?
C) can the smart cat box be shipped to Australia?
Thank you for being here,
Mel & Fatty. ~O)
 
hello and welcome to the FDMB!

i'll let those familiar with the use of caninsulin answer your insulin related question. is Paddington close to you? one of the leading researchers in the use of lantus insulin in the treatment of diabetic felines is affiliated with the Cat Clinic. they have a facility in Paddington: http://www.thecatclinic.com.au/.
his name is Rhett Marshall.
 
Three units of Canninsulin is a high dose. It tends to hit fairly fast and be harsh,, but not knowing how he will be affected, I would watch him carefully. Is there any chance you could go out and get a human blood glucose meter to test him? Then you would be sure what his levels are and that he is safe. We test our cats: Video for hometesting
 
Thank u sue & Oliver and Jill & alex,
An hour after writing the last post I was unconvinced that fatty was ok, he was lethargic and although signs of hypo eg shaking / saliva were not present we were only at + 4 hours so I was scared we were " on the way down". Thanks to the info on this site I also read of asymptomatic hypos which prompted me to ring a new vet which was open on Sunday quite close to my home. The vet told me to bring him in immediately. That was yesterday and since then fatty has been in hands of people who obviously know what they are doing, they spoke of the curve right away, saying that they check minimum every hr, sometimes every 20mins. They changed his food and his insulin...he is no longer on caninsulin now on protaphane which I think is the human one also indicated for cats, they said it was better for him because longer acting and his bsl was so HIgh that it was off the glucometer reading, today he was "down" to 30 which is massively high as I believe it's meant to be about 6.
This vet apologized for the obviously neglectful treatment of our previous vet, she was so kind and understanding.
I suppose I just want to encourage people on this notice board that if they aren't convinced that their vet is doing a great job...get proactive and find a new one, don't wait 5 days like we did and risk your loved ones long term health / life.

So Jill & Alex I will stick with the new vet for now as Paddington is across the other side of Sydney, but will make an appointment there to get fatty assessed once he is stabilized, as he is nearer to home we can visit him easily.

Sue & Oliver thanks for the suggestion re home testing, the new vet suggested it first thing yesterday so I think they are progressive and will help us.
 
Thanx badams, me too.
Any chance you could point me in the right direction to find bsl conversions? As you guys in the northern hemisphere seem to be talking numbers like 200. Fatty's bsl of 30 was the highest the glucometer would go here.
 
Coversion is pretty easy either take your numbers and multiply them by 18 to get our numbers, or take our numbers and divide them by 18 for example 6 in your case would translate to 108 or 200 in our numbers would translate to 11.11(repeating) for you.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
After doing a quick search on the internet, it appears protaphane is the same as NPH. This is not the best choice of insulins to use with cats.

"In cats, N tends to be the faster acting, often with rapid onset and little duration."

There's more information available about using N here: Humulin N Primer.

Lantus (glargine) or Levemir (detemir) insulins are very successful in treating feline diabetes... imho, probably the best insulins currently available for treating feline diabetes. Dr. Jacqui Rand (Queensland University) and her colleague Dr. Rhett Marshall are pioneers in the field of feline diabetes. As I mentioned previously, Dr. Rhett Marshall is on staff at the Cat Clinic. The Cat Clinic has 3 offices, the closest to you in Paddington. You have world renowned and top notch researchers in the field of feline diabetes available in your own backyard. I would highly recommend a consultation for Fatty.

Please visit the Lantus Insulin Support Group: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9 for more information on both Lantus and Levemir. Look for the threads marked with a star that say "STICKY".

Here's a link to an online converter: Blood Glucose Converter Calculator or you can simply multiply your numbers by 18.



Hope this helps. Good luck!
 
Hi Mel,

I am in Australia and if you click on the link to my cat's spreadsheet, and then click "world" at top left, you can easily see the conversions.
 
Re: Conversions

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction for conversions, so fatty was dangerously high (after being sent home from vet 1 as regulated) 30 x18 = 540!!
I will go to new vet this morn with my iPad & show them Jill & alex's post re glargine vs humulin.
I made a mistake about the cat clinic, we do have a Paddington here in Sydney, but when I looked on the web I recalled that they were the first site I visited, but realized they are in Paddington Queensland which is unfortunately about a 14 hour drive!
The more I read on this site the more depleted I'm feeling, trying to stay hopeful. Mel
 
Early on in my sugar journey, someone reminded me to breathe. Great advice. Diabetes didn't happen in a day and won't be resolved in a day. But every bit of information you get and every little step you take forward will ease your mind. Soon you will be home testing and figuring out doses, and telling newbies about your journey.

Ask questions when you are confused or worried. There are lots of people here to help.
 
Re: Conversions

Mel&fatty said:
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction for conversions, so fatty was dangerously high (after being sent home from vet 1 as regulated) 30 x18 = 540!!
I will go to new vet this morn with my iPad & show them Jill & alex's post re glargine vs humulin.
I made a mistake about the cat clinic, we do have a Paddington here in Sydney, but when I looked on the web I recalled that they were the first site I visited, but realized they are in Paddington Queensland which is unfortunately about a 14 hour drive!
The more I read on this site the more depleted I'm feeling, trying to stay hopeful. Mel
Click to expand...
Sorry about the mix-up regarding locations.
I'll try to attach a document you can share with your vet about Lantus (glargine). It may help.


Edited to add:
You can find more links you may want to print out and share with your vet here: STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - TIGHT REGULATION PROTOCOL.

Good luck with your vet!
 
Mel,

Don't feel discouraged. My cat was 27.4 at diagnosis and is well regulated at the moment. If you can, change to Lantus insulin as soon as possible. If you follow advice from all the wonderful members of this forum, things will look up for Fatty very soon, I'm sure.

Hang in there!
Juliet & Balki
 
Things are looking up for fatty

Dear Friends,
I am delighted to report this next installment of events for fatty. Following all your advice I approached the vet at lunch time yesterday & shared my concerns re: Insulin N, also told them of your recommendations for Lantus. The vet said she would speak to her boss (the senior vet & practise owner). Fatty was still looking weak and I was sad to leave him at the hospital although I felt he was in good hands.
At 5pm yesterday evening the vet phoned me (phoned me..not the other way around!) to let me know that the reason the clinic was not using Lantus was because it was much more expensive and also the applicator was a pen which prevented giving 1/2 unit doses which they liked to use...HOWEVER after researching this afternoon they found that the price had recently dropped dramatically making it comparable to other insulins and they had changed the applicator, therefore they were happy to start fatty on Lantus because they agreed it was a good one and hence ordered some & would start him on it tomorrow and re do his curve...Yay!!

So 'tomorrow' is today and I visited fatty this evening. He is still at 17 (306) but he was purring and although still terribly skinny seemed happier.And.....guess what Jill & Alex, in the front of fatty's file Attached to his cage was a print out on Lantus clinical procedures which had relevant points highlighted written by Dr Rhett Marshall! My vet had contacted him without me saying anything. :razz:
 
Awesome! We used Lantus, and with diet change (plus some exercise - we moved into a townhouse with stairs a week before Cedric was diagnosed) he was only on insulin for a month. Cedric is in remission thanks to a vet who was familar with FD and was willing to let me home test (testing blood glucose before each injection). I am glad your have found a proactive vet. Best wishes and welcome!
 
Hooray for getting Fatty on some good juice!

:RAHCAT

Good job on educating your vet. That can only be good for the next poor kitty that comes in diabetic.
 
Just read both the glargine trial & the handling attachments, thank you wonderfully informative. I now understand exactly what my vet was talking about re application, & I will print the clinical trial out for them. Fatty is on low carb DRY at the moment. Do u think it's better to leave him on this & just allow him to stabilize on the Lantus (ie one change @ a time?
We could move him onto wet in a month or so. mel
 
Again, thanks everyone for the encouragement, I will " pay it forward" when we are on a less wobbly path. At least I know have faith that a less wobbly path is possible. Mel
 
Mel&fatty said:
Just read both the glargine trial & the handling attachments, thank you wonderfully informative. I now understand exactly what my vet was talking about re application, & I will print the clinical trial out for them. Fatty is on low carb DRY at the moment. Do u think it's better to leave him on this & just allow him to stabilize on the Lantus (ie one change @ a time?
We could move him onto wet in a month or so. mel
Click to expand...
it's never too soon attempt a transition from dry to low carb wet food. i don't know what's available there, but your vet can get specifics from Dr. Rhett Marshall. just be aware... feeding a low carb wet diet may decrease fatty's insulin requirements. ask your vet to teach you how to test fatty's ear or paw pad with a human blood glucose meter: Management of Feline Diabetes: Home Monitoring.

More info here: Hometesting Links and Tips.

being able to test fatty's blood sugar at home will help keep him safe.


edited to add:
take a look at Dr. Pierson's tips Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food.
 
Re: Update on fatty & question re diet

Fatty doing ok, but has diahorrea. I've managed to increase my confidence using the glucommeter but am still confused re diet. Just to recap he is on 4units Lantus and hills prescription m/d (dry).
I anticipated being confused re wet food and am now so more than ever. The 'best' I could find was purina fancy feast...ocean whitefish & tuna with protein 13%, fat 2%, fibre 1.5% and salt .5% which confuses me because the protein content of the dry is 45%, fat 19%, fibre 6% which leaves a lot less room for carbs doesn't it?
Could I have some recommendations re wet food please? Particularly from anyone in Australia because the labels are different here.
Thank you helpful people's.
Mel & fatty.
 
Hi Mel
Please follow these links to all you ever wanted to know about canned food!

Look mostly at the column that says "carbs" and what you want is something (like the FF classic flavor you mentioned) that is 7% or less. Just about all of the fancy feast classic flavors is that low. The Fancy Feast are mostly listed on the "old" chart. But both charts will give you dozens of options to pick from.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodOld.html
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Carl
 
Yes, the labels are confusing. That's what makes the charts so helpful.

Also, remember to transition him to wet gradually rather than all at once since you are giving him insulin, and a dose of 4 units.
The switch off dry to wet is going to drop his blood glucose, possibly quickly and drastically. That dose of insulin will have a much greater effect when his numbers are lower.
So make sure and test before every shot, and at least once, if not more often, between shots.

Carl
 
Vet changes policy

Just a quick note, my vet ( in collaroy, NSW - northern beaches Sydney Australia ) rang me today...firstly to find out how fatty is going, to which I replied he is happier, drinking less and eating normally yay! Secondly, to thank me for telling the clinic about Lantus. She said that she has done extensive research over the past week and has decided to alter their policy regarding insulin, making Lantus standard practice. :cool:
Fatty will have his curve redone on Friday so I'll have more to report then,
Thanks very much, mel
 
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