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KC and Biscuit

KC and Biscuit

Member Since 2023
And by this I mean diabetes in cats. I am diabetic, and Biscuit has already survived FIP so we know about daily shots.

Biscuit was diagnosed last night. He'd been showing signs for a little while, but the signs looked like UTI and so that's what we looked at first, and he appeared to improve. Yesterday, not so much, and last night the ER vet did a full chem panel on the blood.

So, Biscuit is currently in the hospital getting stabilized. His internal medicine vet, who was also his vet through the FIP treatment, is carefully checking to see if there's anything else besides diabetes lurking about. I don't have any questions so far, but I expect I will as we go along, particularly when it comes to testing. I test myself, but a cat ... well ....

Glad to see this group here. I should have more info about his upcoming treatment plan tomorrow.
 
Welcomed and good job on finding us on day 2!!!

I hope he’ll be back home soon and feeling better. you certainly have the advantage of knowing about diabetes being diabetic yourself. And both Minnie and Bobo have IMs too. I find them to be more knowledgeable even though, not when it comes to feline diabetes. But at least he lets do my own thing and realizes I know a ton so we usually discuss everything but the diabetes. Anyway, with a diabetic cat you need:
  • A low carb wet diet that is 10% carbs or under. Most of us use around 4-7% carbs
  • A suitable insulin such as Lantus or Prozinc which are long acting, more gentle insulins than the old insulins.
  • We recommend hometesting the blood glucose with a human meter…it is not necessary to use a pet meter which is expensive to run and is no better. It will keep your kitty safe and you will know how the dose is working for your kitty. Only testing every so often will not tell you what is happening in between those times and an awful lot can happen in even a day.
  • HELP US HELP YOU has information about the spreadsheet, signature and hypo box which you will need to be able to look after your beloved kitty properly. You can check that out in advance.
What are you currently feeding him? A word of warning though…don’t change the food you are feeding at the moment over to the low carb food until you are testing the blood glucose because a change over can drop the BGs by up to 100 points and we don’t want you to have a hypo on your hands.

We are happy to help you with setting up the spreadsheet, sorting out what food to buy, how to transition safely to a low carb diet, how to learn to home test and much more.

FOOD CHART have a look on this chart and choose foods that are under 10%.

You will also need some higher carb foods for that hypo box..information in the help us help you link.

This is an excellent site for diabetic cats…it has been around for more than 25 years and has very experienced people to help you.

Ask as many questions as you need to and let us know about the treatment plan.
 
Thanks y'all. Sorry I took so long to get back, busyness ensued.

Biscuit is coming home later today. He took a few days to start eating again, but he did and has switched over to the type of insulin he'll be taking at home. I think she said it was Lantos (?) but I'm not certain as my brain misfired. He'll be taking two units, twice a day. She does want me to test, so I'm ready for that.

I'm trying to figure out what I need to do about food. Previously, Biscuit and one of the other two cats here got a big wet food meal at dinner time and snacked on dry food at other times. Now, he'll be getting two wet food meals per day. He also gets Churu lickable treats periodically, because that was the deal we made when he was going through FIP treatment. Churus, every day, forever. They appear to be pretty low in carbs so I think they'll be OK.

The real problem is that Tag, the one of the other two cats who does not get a wet food meal at dinner time. He absolutely will not eat anything but dry food. We've tried multiple times, but he won't - and the funny thing is, he used to. He contracted blastomycosis and went through nine months of an anti-fungal treatment, mostly in his food, and the minute his fungal load was down to nothing, he refused to eat wet food anymore. And he doesn't care how long it takes until I give it to him. It's a big no.

I'm thinking that with Biscuit getting two meals a day instead of one, he will be less likely to snack on dry food, and if I get a low-carb dry food, maybe it'll be ok? I read that the Royal Canin SO is pretty low ... can't remember the number or where I saw it right now. Bisc's vet would of course prefer that he go all wet, but she also knows Tag and his "issues," so she seemed to think while not optimal it would work, and of course I'll be testing.

I've looked over the list of wet foods, no problems there. There are some I didn't see on there that I know he likes, Blue's Tastefuls, Tiny Tiger, and Instinct, so I'm not sure where they are on the carbs.

And we'll leave it as is for now anyway while we get used to it all, just adding the second meal.

I'm kinda nervous since he just got diagnosed and I'm supposed to be out of town next weekend (not this), so I'm looking for someone who can handle his shots. My housemate has a severe needle phobia, and while she's game to try if needed she'd really rather not. I get it. I learned not to be so scared about it during Bisc's FIP treatment, though, so I'm not worried about that part at all.

OK that's all I can think of for now. Waiting on the call to come bring my boy home.

And thanks.
 
Please don’t feed him just 2 meals a day. That’s very old fashioned advice that works for dogs but not for cats who have a much higher metabolism. We hear vets advising that here every day and it’s not good for their already compromised pancreas. Feeding smaller meals or treats throughout the day also helps avoid big bg sugar spikes. Most of us feed the 2 largest meals at shot time then a few smaller meals here and there as well as low carbs treats. For instance, Bobo gets 1 can of FF at shot times then 1/2 a can twice more and freeze dried treats like PureBites chicken and turkey
 
If you don’t see a specific food brand on the food chart, you can reach out to manufacturer and ask what the carb content on a dry matter basis is or you can try to look it up on chewy and under questions, usually you’ll find that someone has already asked that and chewy answered.

there are 2 low card dry food I know of and one is Dr Elseys but @Bron and Sheba (GA) may know exactly what they are
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Please don’t feed him just 2 meals a day. That’s very old fashioned advice that works for dogs but not for cats who have a much higher metabolism. We hear vets advising that here every day and it’s not good for their already compromised pancreas. Feeding smaller meals or treats throughout the day also helps avoid big bg sugar spikes. Most of us feed the 2 largest meals at shot time then a few smaller meals here and there as well as low carbs treats. For instance, Bobo gets 1 can of FF at shot times then 1/2 a can twice more and freeze dried treats like PureBites chicken and turkey
Click to expand...

Fair 'nuff. To be honest, she didn't actually say only two meals a day. She said he gets his shots twice a day, with meals. I tend to be very literal and try to remember not everyone is quite as much as I am, not always with good results. :D
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
If you don’t see a specific food brand on the food chart, you can reach out to manufacturer and ask what the carb content on a dry matter basis is or you can try to look it up on chewy and under questions, usually you’ll find that someone has already asked that and chewy answered.

there are 2 low card dry food I know of and one is Dr Elseys but @Bron and Sheba (GA) may know exactly what they are
Click to expand...

Sweet. Didn't know I could look that sort of thing up on Chewy. Thanks!
 
KC and Biscuit said:
Fair 'nuff. To be honest, she didn't actually say only two meals a day. She said he gets his shots twice a day, with meals. I tend to be very literal and try to remember not everyone is quite as much as I am, not always with good results. :D
Click to expand...
Ha! That makes more sense because so far your vet actually sounds like one of the best ones we’ve encountered here. Baby food, the lickable sticks and even human chicken also make good low carb treats
 
KC and Biscuit said:
she is pretty great, and has diabetic cats of her own!
Click to expand...
We’ll probably differ when it comes to dosing since all vets dose by the preshot numbers and we dose by the lowest your cat goes in a 12-hour cycle but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. For now, you want to withhold food for at least 2 hours before you test, then test, feed and give the insulin. Let us know if you need help with testing. Warming up the ear was always key for me. Most of us use an old sock we fill with rice and nuke for about 20-30 seconds. You hold it against the ear until the ear is warm to the touch. It helps increase the blood circulation to the area and makes it easier to get a decent size blood droplet. Always give a treat immediately after testing whether it’s a success or a fail to build positive association. And always sim for the sweet spot
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Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up
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6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 10 or 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand not the lancing device
I find it better to see where I'm aiming
Look at the lancet under a light and you will see one side is curved upward, that's the side you want to poke with
 
You should read all about Lantus here and before you start it I would ask about what the members here think about starting with 2 units like your vet said
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Read all the yellow stickys

Most of us use human meters that's what our numbers are based on, if you would like a suggestion on what meter to get just ask here and any other questions you might have, and if it is lantus you will need U-100 syringes with half unit markings because we increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time

Lantus is very expensive in the US most of us use the generic lantus
Or you can get generic lantus from a pharmacy
You can have the vet write the script for generic lantus ,many members use it, The brand is much more expensive, just call around and see who might have the generic
Here is some info
Check this out also
https://www.goodrx.com/insulin-glargine?dosage=five-3ml-prefilled-pens-of-100-units-ml&form=carton&label_override=insulin glargine&quantity=1
The 5 pens will last about a year, we use the pens just like a vial, you would just insert the syringe it the gray rubber stopper on the pen and draw out your insulin
Its generic lantus



Or this one also

I see some members will call CVS, Rite Aid, Costco, Walgreen's, to get the price for 5 pens
Posted by another member
One members posted this
. I paid $175 for a box of 5 pens at Walmart pharmacy, but GoodRX coupon says you can get it for around $90 if you have a Rite Aid pharmacy near you.

Just take the cap off the pen and use a U100 syringes and pull the insulin out of the pen!
syringe-in-pen-pic-jpg.45006



If you have trouble with the good Rx coupon at any place call this number
GoodRx / Customer service

1 (855) 268-2822
 
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Yes ketones are involved. They are going down. I’ve been juggling work and Bisc all week so I’ll work on the sig today and also the spreadsheet.

I’m feeling myself a little torn between y’all and the vet. I trust her a great deal. She’s already saved Bisc’s life once before. I also know how valuable a community like this is from my work with the FIP warriors. So please bear with me as I move into this path.

update for this morning: I’ve now done two injections. Dude is doing well. He is definitely a grazer, food wise, and doesn’t eat all of his food at once, but if I leave his wet food out for him, he’s going back to that and not heading for the dry food, so huzzah! He’s clearly very happy to be home.
 
@KC and Biscuit
Hi good job setting up your signature
Here are a list of the acronyms mean
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-glossary.194472/
If you can add ketones to your signature please
Tap on your name above ,tap on signature and add it then tap save or done
If you need help setting up your spreadsheet just ask we have a member who will be glad to do it for you
Biscuit is a very handsome boy :cat:
I'm glad he's home
Since you have DKA in your signature I'm going to tag Bron
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
She can give you some information about DKA now that he's home
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@KC and Biscuit
Hi good job setting up your signature
Here are a list of the acronyms mean
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-glossary.194472/
If you can add ketones to your signature please
Tap on your name above ,tap on signature and add it then tap save or done
If you need help setting up your spreadsheet just ask we have a member who will be glad to do it for you
KC is a very handsome boy :cat:
I'm glad he's home
Click to expand...
Thanks! And I’m KC, he’s Biscuit.
 
KC and Biscuit said:
I've looked over the list of wet foods, no problems there. There are some I didn't see on there that I know he likes, Blue's Tastefuls, Tiny Tiger, and Instinct, so I'm not sure where they are on the carbs.
Click to expand...
Hi KC I contacted Blue Buffalo one time for another member asking them about the Blue Tastefuls , don't know which flavor you are feeding but here was their reply back to me


they answered me back with the dry matter carbs.
Looks like the Chicken would be OK to feed. You can use the Turkey and chicken in case you ever need med carbs to bring up his BG. Med carbs are between 11-17%
Dear Diane,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Blue Buffalo. All of our non-therapeutic diets sold through pet retailers are maintenance diets, and are not intended to be fed to animals seeking specific nutrition for a medical condition that may be supported with nutritional therapy. The Tastefuls Turkey & Chicken Pate canned cat formula contains 11.76% carbohydrates, dry matter basis. The Tastefuls Chicken Pate canned cat formula contains 7.25% carbohydrates, dry matter basis.

We recommend speaking with your veterinarian, as he or she should be able to direct you to a product that is best suited for your pet should they have specific medical conditions that may benefit from nutritional therapy.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Sincerely,

Tracy

So it looks like the chicken pate would be ok for low carbs
The turkey and chicken you can use for medium carbs in case you need to feed higher carbs to bring his BG up to safe numbers

You will also need a high carb food also
I'll give you a suggestion
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi KC I contacted Blue Buffalo one time for another member asking them about the Blue Tastefuls , don't know which flavor you are feeding but here was their reply back to me


they answered me back with the dry matter carbs.
Looks like the Chicken would be OK to feed. You can use the Turkey and chicken in case you ever need med carbs to bring up his BG. Med carbs are between 11-17%
Dear Diane,

Thank you for taking the time to contact Blue Buffalo. All of our non-therapeutic diets sold through pet retailers are maintenance diets, and are not intended to be fed to animals seeking specific nutrition for a medical condition that may be supported with nutritional therapy. The Tastefuls Turkey & Chicken Pate canned cat formula contains 11.76% carbohydrates, dry matter basis. The Tastefuls Chicken Pate canned cat formula contains 7.25% carbohydrates, dry matter basis.

We recommend speaking with your veterinarian, as he or she should be able to direct you to a product that is best suited for your pet should they have specific medical conditions that may benefit from nutritional therapy.

Thank you again for contacting us.

Sincerely,

Tracy

So it looks like the chicken pate would be ok for low carbs
The turkey and chicken you can use for medium carbs in case you need to feed higher carbs to bring his BG up to safe numbers

You will also need a high carb food also
I'll give you a suggestion
Click to expand...
Excellent! Thanks! Checking up on these is next on my list!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@KC and Biscuit
Hi good job setting up your signature
Here are a list of the acronyms mean
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-glossary.194472/
If you can add ketones to your signature please
Tap on your name above ,tap on signature and add it then tap save or done
If you need help setting up your spreadsheet just ask we have a member who will be glad to do it for you
Biscuit is a very handsome boy :cat:
I'm glad he's home
Since you have DKA in your signature I'm going to tag Bron
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
She can give you some information about DKA now that he's home
Click to expand...
Let’s see what Bron thinks. Maybe you start at a higher dose with ketones. I’m not sure. Anyway did you give him 2 units today then?
 
For your hypo kit
More med carbs and high carb
Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart. Doesn't have to be Fancy Feast just an example about the med and high carb foods
And some honey in the house

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-
10% and under low carb

11% -15 is medium carbs.

16- 24 is high carb.

Low carb a lot of members feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates most are 2 and 3 % carbs or Friskies

Don't forget to add ketones to your signature :cat:
 
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Your signature says alphatrak, are you home testing already? With a higher starting dose, I think it would be a good idea to start testing as soon as you can. Cats are stressed out in a hospital setting so the bg can be much higher and it may come down quite a bit at home making that dose no longer suitable. Have you gotten the testing supplies? Alphatrak test strips are expensive and most of us here use human meters, Walmart’s ReliOn to be exact.
 
Ale & Bobo & Minnie (GA) said:
Your signature says alphatrak, are you home testing already? With a higher starting dose, I think it would be a good idea to start testing as soon as you can. Cats are stressed out in a hospital setting so the bg can be much higher and it may come down quite a bit at home making that dose no longer suitable. Have you gotten the testing supplies? Alphatrak test strips are expensive and most of us here use human meters, Walmart’s ReliOn to be exact.
Click to expand...
I haven't started yet, but that's the glucometer I have. If I switch, I'll probably use mine, which is Contour. Biscuit is actually one of the most chill cats ever and isn't over stressed at the vet, other than wanting to be home.
 
I should prolly tell y'all that while I'm new to feline diabetes, I'm not at all new to dealing with serious illnesses with cats. Biscuit himself survived FIP -- and I'm now you with our FIP group -- and his brother Tag had blastomycosis and a nine month antifungal treatment for that. And I'm diabetic, which I'm seeing is quite different from feline diabetes, but I'm not afraid of it. This group is the first thing I looked for when I got Bisc's diagnosis, because I know how valuable this kind of community is and I figured at least one existed out here. I'm so appreciative of the help you've given so far and expect I'll only become more so. I am busy putting together my hypo kit, and I'll start testing tomorrow probably. I unfortunately have to work now. Jobs, y'know. :)
 
As Red said, the test strips are what makes or breaks it since you’ll be using them and going through them pretty fast. Walmart’s ReliOn is the one with the least expensive strips I think you can get 100 for about $17 and the meter itself only costs $9.99. Not sure about Contour but I’m sure you do!
 
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